A health issue or hate to have fun in AT? Omg ..

That is a ZF8 speed, right?

A lot of journalists talk about that transmission like it is 2nd only to Porsche's PDK. Which makes sense considering it is a more premium transmission and is found in nearly everything over $40K.

For reference - PDK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6z8XAorMik

Can't find a comparable ZF clip. But FRS for comparo... not that bad considering the price.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gBM3RCzU3I

I'll take the sub 30K car with the 3 millisecond delay, thank you :iono:

For me, it's not the upshifts that are the issue, it's almost always the downshifts.

The Supra with the ZF can crack off 8 to 3 downshifts immediately and can also drop gears as fast as you can click the paddles even into first gear for the most part. I hate when I try to downshift an automatic and it feels super mushy and/or prevents downshifting.

I must just be used to it? It seems fine to me and I track the car quite a bit. I've never driven anything with paddle shifters prior to the FR-S.

I'll have to test drive a Supra someday, if I can get in the cabin lol

For me getting in was no problem - it was seeing out that was the issue. In that respect the Supra makes the 370Z feel like an AMC Pacer.

That is one major shortcoming. It’s pretty level with a Camaro in terms of submarine/gunslot feel lol. Luckily it’s not a big car.

I downshift manually all the time, even when in full auto mode, never noticed a problem, even if dropping two or three gears. It doesn't stop in between if you do it fast enough.

I mean, I get it, if you are a "MT or die" type it won't matter what the AT does, it won't satisfy you. That's OK. But really, particularly for a sub-30K car (or sub $5,000 car in my case) it's pretty damn good.

I still disagree though, it’s fine-ish in my opinion but every other car has a faster responding and snappier trans than the twins. Now reliability and power-holding are entirely different, but it’s deficient enough for me to only consider manual equipped twins.

See, this is the thing, I jump between a MT JUKE Nismo RS (Don't laugh it's a lot of fun :paddle:) and the AT FR-S all the time and still enjoy the paddles.

I honestly thought the X1 had a ZF 8 speed transmission and i understood (to an extent) how great it was after driving it, but later i found out it was actually an AISIN 8 speed FWD transmission of some kind because the F48 X1 is on BMW's FWD chassis.

As far as i know the ZF transmissions are RWD only.

I just found out ZF is owned by the city of Friedrichshafen (I'm there now). STATE OWNED BUSINESS?!?
COMMUNISM!!!
Seriously though, what a weird thing. This is the richest municipality in the world because in addition to tax revenue they own a frickin massive corporation. You can look up the history of the Zepplin corporation and Freidrichshafen for an interesting story. Oh, and I'm driving a Merc mini-van with an 8spd auto. I assumed it was the ZF but I see above that those are supposedly only in RWD and transfer case 4wd (American pickups). Is that definitely true? The Merc's cruise control will work at 170kph on the autobahn. I haven't tried it any faster.

All-New 2022 Subaru BRZ Makes Global Debut
 

Mercedes makes their own gearboxes.
ZF 8HP cars (from wiki), only longitudinally mounted RWD cars:

The reason they shift so fast is because of the design. There are two "lay shafts" so the next gear is already dialed up and ready to go. It's just a matter of disengaging one clutch and engaging the other. Which it can simultaneously.

And the downshifts, on a well tuned DCT, are always smoother than anything we can do with our feet/hands. So it's faster and smoother at the same time.

The DCT/PDK are pretty fascinating, there are some good videos on YouTube that show how they work, but transmissions and differentials are still VooDoo to me.

One thing that I think we've been neglecting is shift logic.

I drove an M2 with DCT and 981 Cayman S with PDK on track the same day.
The DCT was quick to shift, but was absolutely horrible at choosing gears.
It would be one gear too high in each corner, and then downshift after
the corner as I tried to accelerate. I ended up switching to manual mode
fairly quickly. Whereas the 981 PDK was choosing the right gear all the time.
Also it had those weird push/pull shifters on the steering wheel that I found
very un-intuitive, so I ended up just driving it in full auto, and it was still great.

I haven't driven an auto 86 to have a strong opinion on whether its gear
selection logic is good or not.

PDK seems durable also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o

A Turbo S also stickered at $200k. There’s more DCTs with very expensive issues that are not easily remedied (R35 GTR, Ford Powershift, Hyundai/Kia DCT, etc.)

The durability issue with a DCT (and the old single clutch autos found in Ferrari & Lamborgini) is when creeping in traffic, parking lots, or general city driving. Most of these drivers don't realize that from 0-5ish mph the clutch is slipping. In a normal manual you are conscious of when you're slipping the clutch and minimize it. Those wearing clutches definitely need to be replaced. I cringe when I see a Porsche PDK creeping around. I bet most of their owners are used to a slushbox and have no idea that the automatic transmission in their new Porsche is much less tolerant of this type of use. I think that was the big problem Hyundai had selling CUVs with DCTs to soccer moms who had only ever drive a slushbox and probably didn't even know what a clutch is.
It's the same reason that if you are one of the people who wants a sports car but leans toward getting an auto over a manual because you commute in traffic a DCT is not the solution. The ZF 8HP is. In fact, the Supra might be the best sports car for a city driver for just this reason.

Yeah, not sure why'd you ever use the auto mode.

And I hate that you have to buy a $2k steering wheel from Porsche to have normal paddle shifters. It's why I stopped searching for a 981 S because so few that option and it's a few thousand to add it on after the fact.

I always wondered why these cars are so hesitant to go sideways. Like in this video, it's clear that the car wants to straighten out. It doesn't like to hold angle. The driver is great by the way.

Those were both BRZs. So maybe Toyota is onto something with their different spring rates. Can't wait to hear the back to back drift comparisons.

It drifts fine. It actually looks very easy to slide in my opinion.

Similar to my E36 or 350Z drift cars honestly. But I guess I’ll test it for myself once mine arrives.

I’m confused. On what planet is this car hesitant to go sideways? It’s one of the most tailhappy cars available.

I mean you CAN go sideways in a twin, but it'll always be shallow angle and the car will always try to straighten out. Nowhere close to what S-chassis, E36 or 350Z can do.

Like this video for example. This is almost stock E36 angle wise except for the coilovers, hydro e brake and welded diff. Stock angle, stock engine, stock suspension arms, etc. I see people spend over $2000 on an angle kit alone for a twin and even after thousands of dollars it's not much different from this near stock E36 can do. And those are pretty good drivers.
https://youtu.be/hZTD2m3WXnE

Weird I never had a problem getting mine sideways on 255/35 Star Specs.

"Why does this stock car with less power not drift as well as a modified car with more power?"

facepalm.png

welded diff sorta makes a huge difference there...

Not really, it's just the cheapest option. The guy in the video could've used stock LSD that came in some of 325s or 328s with the same success.

I think the difference is in the chassis.

Okay that’s very false


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cqPD358b7EY

This is MY E36. Completely bone stock with ZERO mods besides a welded diff. I’ve drifted an old twin and owned a G35, HR 350Z, 2 S13s, etc.
If the new car is the same as the old in terms of snappiness and the ebrake locks like the old one, it’ll be damn near the best drift car out of the box.

https://youtu.be/DsBUX1S_b_4

Japanese Moose test? 78kph. Decent. I wonder if the lane dimensions are same as the original moose test, which the 1st gen (with Primacies) got 80kph. But not sure if it's an apples to apples comparison.


https://youtu.be/G9dLIR-ayJY