Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39)
-   -   new to HPDE, need advice about ABS (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143092)

ZDan 11-10-2020 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86league (Post 3382140)
The one time I forgot to do pedal dance the system stepped in on the out-lap and I though "Oh crap... I forgot to pedal dance." I pushed hand held the button for a while, and my memory tells me I got the TRAC OFF, and VSC OFF indicators (as I was used to for pedal dance). But I sort of doubt that outcome given what the manual says (should only occur if the vehicle is stopped).
With my '17, you *can* do the 5-sec hold on the Trac OFF button while moving!

Quote:
To be honest I didn't pay that much attention, I just wanted to get back to hot pit to do pedal dance to be able to drive the session. Whatever mode I was in did allow me to move at a reasonable pace on the out lap back to the hot pit. Way way better than my 2013 would have allowed even with a long press while stopped. I wonder what mode I was actually in now...
normal 5-sec hold I bet ;)

Quote:
@ZDan - you say 5+ sec. The manual says 1+ sec = track, 3+ sec = VSC/TRAC off. Is there a 3rd mode at 5+ sec?
No, you have to hold the "Track" button for about a second, or you can hold the "TC OFF" button for I guess 3 seconds (seems like 5 when I forget and have to do it out on track!) to get the *real* (IMO) track mode with VSC fully off.

strat61caster 11-10-2020 06:29 PM
@86league you can do the 3s/5s (same thing, people just get impatient and it feels like 20s) at speed in the older cars. The two yellow lights are the indicator that you're in the 'tc off' mode.

fminicooper 11-10-2020 06:50 PM
I am hearing different opinion on the ABS, some people says keep it, some take it out. Cannot make a clear path here.
I am running a NA, tuned, BBK race compound pads with 200 tires. Doing HPDE events.

which should the advisable progression be as a driver? Learning how to brake without ABS or keep it running.
What does faster times make for this platform? With or without ABS, assuming driver has the correct skills.

ZDan 11-10-2020 08:18 PM
I don't think there's a lot in it in terms of absolute lap times. Should be a slight advantage with ABS vs. perfect non-ABS braking, more significant advantage overall as not many can brake perfectly every for every corner, every lap. I had been meaning to try it as I get a 42 lb. weight break for time trials with ABS disabled, then I was kinda forced into trying it (malfunction causing ABS to lock front tires!). AFter running without ABS for a few events, and flat-spotting a Hoosier A7 last time out, bad enough that I had to time trial on street tires (doh!), next year I'm planning to use it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fminicooper (Post 3382176)
I am hearing different opinion on the ABS, some people says keep it, some take it out. Cannot make a clear path here.
I am running a NA, tuned, BBK race compound pads with 200 tires. Doing HPDE events.

which should the advisable progression be as a driver? Learning how to brake without ABS or keep it running.
What does faster times make for this platform? With or without ABS, assuming driver has the correct skills.

hepmama 11-11-2020 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 3382109)
You will feel ABS working while you're pressing the brake pedal, the pedal will pulse. It's hard to not notice it or mistake it for something else.

Tonight go find a safe, clear, empty road, get up to 30+ mph and then try to break your brake pedal so you can feel the abs working. Do a real panic stop, it's an important learning lesson for every single driver on the road to understand how to stop their car as quickly as possible.

It's not clear, were you driving with traction control? Your instructor may be feeling the traction control kick in which does feel slightly like ABS as it applies the brakes to prevent the car from sliding. Older instructors may not be hip with the latest tech from the '80s. :) (which means I agree with above, instructor was feeling the vsc/tcs/whatever you want to call it)
Thanks for the tips, I'll find an empty road to try that.

I didn't push any of the track buttons so everything would be normal and on.

This was only my second time to do this so I am still learning what is happening with my car. It was overwhelming at times but lots of fun.

slowmow 11-11-2020 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan (Post 3382007)
While we're talking about it, if you *ever* see the VSC warning light and/or ABS light at the track, be *SUPER* easy on brakes at next brake zone and bring it in.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142525
Just to clarify, this refers to the VSC and/or ABS light coming on and staying on for some amount of time, not just flashing? Given the potential consequences, I just want to make sure I understand!

ZDan 11-11-2020 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmow (Post 3382362)
Just to clarify, this refers to the VSC and/or ABS light coming on and staying on for some amount of time, not just flashing? Given the potential consequences, I just want to make sure I understand!
In my case it was both the VSC warning light and ABS light coming on solid (and disappearance of the TC Off and VSC Off lights which are otherwise on when running with the 3/5-second hold). Somebody else reported similar weird/bad behavior when just the ABS light came on, solid.

VSC light flashing I think just means it's intervening "normally". I think you'd see that in "Track" mode, but you shouldn't in 3/5-second hold mode.

soundman98 11-11-2020 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fminicooper (Post 3382176)
I am hearing different opinion on the ABS, some people says keep it, some take it out. Cannot make a clear path here.
I am running a NA, tuned, BBK race compound pads with 200 tires. Doing HPDE events.

which should the advisable progression be as a driver? Learning how to brake without ABS or keep it running.
What does faster times make for this platform? With or without ABS, assuming driver has the correct skills.
the theory for going without ABS is to improve driver capability (threshold braking), instead of relying on vehicle systems to keep the car properly situated. ABS inherently will not activate until after there's slippage. so by driving at a performance level that eeks all of the performance of a car without inducing wheel slippage, the theory is that it makes for a more competent driver, which can then turn better lap times.

the reality is that ABS systems have gotten extremely good. and until you're at the very upper levels of competition, i'm not convinced that the ABS system of this vehicle will ever hold you back-- i'm now more convinced that it can actually keep one from getting too far past their limits, unless there's a serious malfunction like zdan experienced.


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