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Originally Posted by Arthur-A
(Post 3574906)
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Insurers don't have the skill or data to assess the risk to benefit ratio yet. We have had BEVs, PHEVs and HEVs for a while now, and they all have batteries. I don't know why this is an issue now. The future is most likely going to be hands-free autonomous driving or a certain degree of driver assistance features where many accidents might be reduced, which should benefit insurance providers. Tesla is making the battery pack part of the car, so "scratches" would need to be severe and most likely seriously structural in a way that a car would have frame damage and be written off. I don't really see this as a growing issue.
Spend two seconds on eBay, and you will see battery modules for sale, EV motors for sale and all other types of EV parts, so I don't understand the suggestion that these components can't be repaired or have a second life.
The batteries are being repurposed/recycled in the commercial and private sector as grid storage, RV storage, car conversions, etc. There are also battery recyclers like there are for cellphone, laptops, tablets, etc. (
1)Surely this guy doesn't think we should stop making cell phones and laptops does he?
Lithium sulfur batteries and other chemistry batteries in the works are far, far less flammable (
2). This is still a maturing market in its infancy, so it is naive to think the initial products will be polished and free from issues.
I find the conversation on cobalt mining to be hypocritical on both sides. One side typically doesn't have a problem exploiting cheap labor around the world for corporate profits, yet condemns cobalt mining, and the other acts high and mighty advocating for saving the planet or helping the poor, but fly private, buy expensive luxury EVs and are for helping the homeless as long as the low income housing isn't in their backyard. Why is child labor and worker exploitation being specifically highlighted now and by a particular party? Because it serves them best, yet there are a number of products made from exploited labor (
3) and child labor (
4) not being discussed. Cobalt isn't needed for the EV industry to move forward, and no one is calling for an end to smart phones, laptops and tablets, so this is more of a political issue.
End of life emissions from materials to recyclers, BEVs are much better. They are far more sustainable. They are cheaper. ICEs use a finite resource for fuel, pollute more, and more expensive over the length of their life.
Power grab? EVs offer the possibility of living sustainably off-grid with solar, so if anything, the power grab could be coming from the oil industry. Nothing about autonomy has anything to do with the powertrain. 97% of cars on the road are automatic, so the vast majority of cars could be autonomous and could be turned on and off remotely or controlled if the systems were in place. There is nothing about a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt that makes it more controllable.
Part of our throw away society has to do with CAPITALISM. Planned obsolescence keeps things failing before they need to, and as it pertains to cars, people buy new cars because warranties expire, and they fear a huge bill. Also, unfortunately, it is cheaper to throw things away than to recycle them. It is about profit. This can be changed easily with policies.
He seems to be fixated on the recyclability of BEVs. They can be recycled when the industry grows, and they can be repurposed, which is the best way to recycle them. Imagine pulling a 50-100kWh battery from your old car to use as a home storage system. These batteries will still have 50-70% of their life still available when cars have reached the end of their typical use cycle:
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To address the elephant in the room: yes, electric car batteries are recyclable, with some techniques allowing up to 95% of the raw materials to be recovered. Governments globally are also mandating EV batteries to be designed and manufactured in an easily recyclable way (5).
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Nissan uses 148 Leaf EV batteries to power Amsterdam stadium
The batteries include both new and used ones (6).
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There is something called the Diffusion of Innovation Theory by Everett Rogers, which describes the characteristics, movement and success of change, and it highlights the influence of laggards and rejectors on the S curve for product adoption (
7). With any change, these types are predictable, even if they are a vocal minority.
