What state did she live in? Did her state set up an exchange or use the federal government's exchange? What insurance did she have before? Overwhelmingly the ACA has been positive and better than the old system where your mother wouldn't have insurance because of a pre-existing condition or the prices would be even higher. Doctors can always choose not to take certain insurance or only take cash; that is their prerogative unless you think we should make a regulation against that? Regardless, I am an advocate for Medicare-For-All.

Because it is propaganda. Get a third party to assess the situation. And what deregulation policy did he enact specifically to lower drug prices? Prices of internet are going down???

https://khn.org/news/president-trump...ow-are-skimpy/

https://arstechnica.com/information-...o-hidden-fees/



Or responding to your link :iono:


Read the bold above. "...each has a virtual monopoly." You say the apartment complex is part of the problem, but maybe they are just trying to make a buck in a free market system and getting around regulations through loopholes:

https://broadbandnow.com/report/apar...ernet-hostage/


He can talk, but what is happening behind the scenes? Well, Texas is already home to one of Tesla's offices and was going to be the location for the Cybertruck plant. As this article points out, Musk has gone after tax-payer incentives to bring his business to their area. Maybe all his ranting and raving about California is so states will know what he wants, which is low taxes and lots of incentives, yet, maybe he is pitting state against state when he plans all along to go to Texas because the Texas truck market is number one and California is number two.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/20/elon...1-billion.html


You're creating a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Walmart can pay its workers a fair wage. If Walmart didn't exist then the US would have more jobs, there would be more better paying jobs too, so even if costs were higher for goods, there would be an income or a higher income.

Interestingly, the state with the most hunger (18.7% of households) and the most obesity (40.8%) is Mississippi. With 86 Walmarts, they sit in the middle and are far from having the most Walmarts, which is Texas at 603, but when we compare based on population, if Mississippi had the population of Texas then they might also have 837 Walmarts, proportionally. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

Bro, they have more employees on government aid than anyone. McDonalds even openly helps its employees get on food stamps. Your tax dollars are subsidizing their profit margins because they won't pay their employees enough, yet they are racking in billions. What don't you get?

https://money.cnn.com/2013/10/23/new...-line-workers/

It is like the iPhone design of cars or something from a Scandinavian Designs catalog. People like simplicity and clean lines. Obviously the concept was much better, but I even like it, and I generally don't like hatchbacks. I would rock that.

I prefer the sports car version. If it only had a manual transmission. Considering a Porsche has only three usable gears, I would settle for a three speed manual.

I bet you didn't like Eve from the movie Wall-E either...

The sports car version is even worse IMO. Now get that think off my lawn!

An EV with 3-speed manual, interesting concept.

Florida. Dad has been in the insurance industry for 35 years and brother has been in it for 17. It was done properly and through the healthcare.gov site. Eventually she joined a group plan and dropped her rate to $200 a month. She’s very happy with this plan as covered is significantly better. The system can benefit people, sure but someone else has to pay for it - my family was carry the latter burden. ACA again is trash IMO and will never have my support. We disagree. Moving on.

Propaganda with evidence and history diagrams? okay. Sure. You clearly didnt read it.


Then what made you go off on multiple different tangents? :iono:

Read the first line of the article... Takes two to tango bro. I’d move, free market ftw.


This is very tinfoil hat of you. He also has Space X there too soooo. I’m sure there was a multitude of reasons but I’m not going to assume anything, I’d rather listen to what has been said not make assumptions.


I’m providing a counter point that allows you to decide what you think the balance should be. It’s not a false dichotomy, it’s food for though that’s highlighting the positive impacts of cheap goods. It’s been proven that some people don’t want to be off government support programs.

There are far too many variables to correlate those statistics. My point is to show how cheap food is necessary to feed the less fortunate.

And they probably will never leave the programs because people like free money.

Someone else was already paying for it before. When there is no mandate people just don't get insurance and then use the emergency room, and the bill is passed on to people with private insurance. The only system that makes sense is a medicare-for-all system where everyone has to contribute something and everyone is in the same group, so prices can be negotiated lower. What is your alternative? Should we deregulate healthcare and get rid of medicare? Should we allow hospitals to refuse care and insurance providers to deny plans to anyone they want? Where would you like to see more deregulation?

I read it and gave clear counter arguments. I even linked an article saying they are raising their rates! What more can I do? I think you just want to have your head in the sand.


Did you even read the article I was responding to or just the headline because every sentence of my response to the article was a response to the article and not a tangent.

Aww, just as I suspected. What you missed in my articles is that this isn't isolated to any one area. In fact, they said "in large portions of the US", and your suggestion to just move is ridiculous. It doesn't change the fact that an area can have a local monopoly, which should be illegal, but it isn't. I wonder why that is?

It isn't tinfoil hat because it isn't a conspiracy. Like the article says, he has a track record of doing just that like he did with a solar panel plant in New York. It is referred to as a pattern of behavior, which is saying one thing on social media, but doing the opposite. The man has literally been fined because his social media comments directly and intentionally manipulated the stock price because he was upset at short sellers. Like Newson said, he isn't concerned about Tesla threatening to leave. California is the largest car market in the US, and proportionally a huge market for EVs in the world, but especially the US. There are ramifications to leaving California, and there are benefits to setting up another plant in the middle of the US in the second largest market and largest truck market besides taxes, regulations and cheaper labor.


No, if you look up a false dichotomy then that literally is what you were proposing, as if it is either Walmart exists, and we have cheap goods, but shitty wages and less small businesses, or Walmart doesn't exist and consumers have to pay more for goods. Wrong! That is a false dichotomy, and it isn't an either/or situation.

"Proven that some people don't want to be off government support programs." I'm sure some people don't. And? That really doesn't say much. Are you saying many people, the majority of people, a large chunk of people? "People like free money". And you don't like free money? What type of statement is that? Stating the obvious, but you are connecting it with programs, so you are saying people like poverty if it means some free money. I'm sure some would say yes, but again, are you saying this is prevalent? Can you back that up with some statistics, but that statement sounds like a conservative talking point more than anything based in fact. Care to read some facts on who is actually getting the bulk of government aid? I'll give you a sneak peak because I doubt you will read it: it is people who paid into the programs who are collecting back their own money like senior citizens and disabled people:

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...blic-benefits/

Again, the US wouldn't need to spend money on food stamps if Walmart paid people more, so those employees didn't need or didn't qualify for food stamps. Does this look like Walmart employees want to have low wages and stay on food stamps? Walmart has a history of subverting unionization, but we know why don't we?

Walmart Workers Picket 1,600 Stores Demanding Higher Wages And Full-Time Work

https://www.ibtimes.com/walmart-work...e-work-1730599

https://populardemocracy.org/news/ho...s-not-unionize

https://azizonomics.files.wordpress....v4vaaayacx.jpg

I thought Eve was cute, her on-screen robot double was a little creepy though...
https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/...ssa-knight.jpg

Looks like the price per kWh has gone down.

https://electrek.co/2020/12/16/elect...h-price-point/

With column-mount shifter :D

Seriously tho I love the sports car version...

This is going down a rabbit hole and could be argued to no end. My answer is the same, my body my choice.

Well my monthly rate dropped and my down/upload rate increased. So it would appear my head is right where it needs to be. I don't invest a lot into what you're arguing. Additionally, if you look at the amount of inconsistencies in service rates state to state you can't develop a clear trend. So again, I'm not convinced.

Don't be childish. If you're going to debate on the internet put on your adult pants and try to have a civilized conversation. I don't care how much anger or sass you're layin down in each post, it doesn't help your argument.

How is it ridiculous? Don't put apartment buildings on blast and continue to give them business. Do something about it. That's your CHOICE. The last apt building I rented from tried to raise my rates $270/month to renew. Bye. Its because your apartment building made an agreement with them, by choice.

The basis of your argument is because of what he did with a plant in New York? That's not a pattern of behavior (nice use of a term that has negative connotation) its a completely different scenario that involved a joint venture. You can't compare the two.

I know what a false dichotomy is but if you're trying to highlight my use of the word "which" in that specific question then you are missing the point of my argument which I tried to explain to you but seem hung up, so whats you're goal with this comment?

The importance of that statement is that even if it is a small portion of those people don't want to leave those government programs then then basis of your argument is flawed. You're asking for empirical data for something that is subjective. Aside from that, lets consider the alternative - lets not allow those people work for the rates they agreed (with their employers) to work for, pay them more and they are in turn disqualified for government social programs without having a choice. Choice. You're removing the option with that exact regulation.


Did you just cite populardemocracy regarding the pro union argument and you're criticizing me for referencing the WH. Interesting. If you want to discuss unions we can but this is going to yet again shift the focus.

Yeah, we can talk unions. The fall of unions was part of the fall of the middle class, the deepening of the income inequality in the country and is one of the biggest problems in this country. CEOs like Elon Musk and large corporations like Walmart have subverted efforts for employees to practice their legal rights to form a union.

https://www.epi.org/blog/weakened-la...ic-inequality/

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/...violation-nlrb

That is not private insurance.

You were arguing for universal healthcare and asked me for alternatives (a rabbit hole of a conversation in itself) then turned into the average US citizen paying the bill which down the line you can make the connection but its a stretch because insurance companies only account for a small percentage of that, while the federal, state and local governments account for a the vast majority of those unpaid (uninsured) bills. This can be debated on who and how it is funded and I didn't feel the need to dig into because again, we will end up going down a rabbit hole.

Lol more condescension... I posted the stats and you didn't like the WH as the source and you went down a path of blame against the POTUS claims. If you haven't looked at the cost of internet/Mbps you're not giving me information I care to read. For anyone paying attention the Mb is cheaper than its ever been.

That's your choice. I just find it ironic that you're complaining about the fire being hot while you're pouring fuel on it. I'm more of a, if I don't like the company's tactics I don't give them my business, kind of guy.

And I'm saying the average employee at walmart is earning over $13/hr which is above the well established minimum cost of living.

There have been many studies that have shown, after economic recessions (booming SNAP enrollments) people remain on it until they are no longer qualified.

No what I'm saying is, if you raise the minimum wage mandate you're not giving the people the option to make a decision to remain on those programs or not.

I'm going to let you know, I won't be reading Vox. EPI has good stuff though. You understand that you can't just drive up the cost of labor without considering the effects, right? So lets consider the last minimum wage increase from $6.55 to $7.25 (a $0.70 increase) is estimated to have cost 300,000 jobs. (from this book https://www.amazon.com/Economics-Pub.../dp/0134018974 )

It is well know that minimum wage increases impact employment: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammil...h=397247ed1e7d

On top of that it forces employers to hire, more highly qualified people over entry level. Which counteracts the main goal. (again from previous textbook)

And which companies do you think would be more impacted by these increases? Starbucks or the local coffee shop? Small businesses would take the brunt of these regulations. (again from previous textbook) The larger companies would just automate more (Amazon Go for example).

So I'd ask what is your definition of income inequalities? Because its easy to figure out what drives up the cost of an employee - experience and skill, location, credentials, job description and responsibilities, industry or employer, and success and performance. College experience is one of the biggest factors in wage gaps. Do you think these factors should not matter? Or do you think everyone's pay should move up proportionally?

I think any objective mind can find the pros and cons of unions. It comes down to which of those elements do you hold more important? Are you suggesting unionization just because of the wage increase benefits or something else? If you are then you need to understand that unions are typically in specialized career fields like manufacturing, utilities, construction, and such. Specialized meaning, higher pay. The retail career field couldn't afford union representation. It's unrealistic but an important factor to consider. I think unionization for Walmart would be significantly different than that of Tesla. As for Tesla doing illegal stuff, I won't advocate for them.

It's simple: Everybody making money pays in, everybody in the country is covered. Even right-wing sponsored studies have shown this to be cost-effective. I wouldn't even mind paying *more* to ensure that those less fortunate than myself have healthcare. And also that if anything happens to me such that I lose my job that *I* still have healthcare. M4A is the way to go.

Yeah, and if you have 10 employees and pay 9 of them $1 and 1 of them $100, the *average* pay is $10/hr. The *minimum wage* should be a living wage, everywhere in the country.

As long as they qualify I'm all for giving them the benefits. But making sure everyone who works is paid a living wage would ensure that NO working people require benefits as they would be adequately paid by their employers.

Long/short, I don't believe this "estimate" is arrived at legitimately...
Here's a study for you: Why Does the Minimum Wage Have
No Discernible Effect on Employment?
The weight of that evidence points to little or no employment
response to modest increases in the minimum wage.
https://cepr.net/documents/publicati...ge-2013-02.pdf

IF prices go up a bit and that DOES result in more unemployment, IMO better to have good unemployment benefits and let people use their time and energies to get training or education to find better-paying jobs than to continue to allow exploitation and a race-to-the-bottom in terms of lower wages.

Cost effective doesn't make it better. Do you buy your Bride seats from Taiwan or from Japan? My point was, that some people (my mother included) were paying up to 400% more premium and absurd increases in deductibles for a fraction of the coverage. How is that fair? I didn't even break into the pros and cons because as I said, it's a whoooole different conversation.

Okay, now do it for 2.2 million people.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that people are enrolling into the program as a need and then maintaining membership beyond necessity as a want. I don't care why, I think its human nature - if I can, why not.

Check more sources... https://www.nber.org/system/files/wo...663/w12663.pdf

The long term effects of raising minimum wage have more negative impacts on employment that positive. This paper compiled many studies and developed their conclusion based on the culmination of them.