It's all about control

If oil is so wonderful, and the answer to everyone's dreams, government would not need to provide hefty tax incentives, subsidies and grants to oil producers. See what I did there? I used your words, but swapped EVs and oil, and it worked the same. Also, it's being hastened by government mandates. It would get there on its own just the same in a free market system.

You couldn't be more wrong about the role of government in advancing the economy. The government is basically insurance to invest. Without the government, research and development and the rate of innovation in pharmaceuticals, technology, medicine, etc would be drastically slowed. Neil is talking about space exploration needing to be led by government investment, but he hit the nail on the head that government assumes the risk, funds investment, funds research and development, kickstarts the foundation for private industries to be able to invest with confidence on a predictable rate of return.

The main reasons the government is hastening this transition, along with transitioning almost every industry off fossil fuels, is because of climate change, and its related costs, and because of energy-independence/energy-stability due to running out of oil. Why do you think they are doing it if not for that?

A lot of this investment has paid off with solar and wind now significantly cheaper than fossil fuels and nuclear, in some cases, by a factor of ten. It'll definitely pay off to move to EVs someday.

Skip to 7:18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mtgk3L4OU4#t=7m18s

Who and why do they want to control you? You special bro?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...43/271/4f8.jpg

Irace86.2.0 Born and raised in CA by chance?

The world is not running out of oil (or natural gas), and climate change is just part of justifying the agenda, and nothing more. I'm sure you feel I'm an idiot, and that has been the plan all along.

Maybe it will play out in our lifetime to prove one of us correct and the other wrong, maybe not, but I'm not going to go on arguing about it with one who has clearly drank the Kool Aid.

That is all I am going to say. You have your opinion, and I have mine. To others reading this, for every point there are valid counterpoints out there. Look for the ones that are suppressed, and not covered by the mainstream media if you are looking for truths.

I just pray enough people wake up soon enough to avert the disaster (I beleive) we are headed for. I have little hope, but maybe..

P.S. - Your mocking of Lantanafrs2 is no different than CNN, MSN, the Democratic Party and all the other agenda pushing organizations, shame those who don't comply..

You can be proud that you are a good little soldier. :clap:

Yep.

There is all different types of KoolAid to drink. You're under the impression that you haven't drank any KoolAid. That isn't surprising. The world has 47 years of proven oil reserves of conventional oil at current usage rates without a change in rates or including unconventional reserves. We aren't finding more conventional oil in any significant volume to replace what we are taking such that we will be left with only unconventional reserves. Unconventional oil/shale is about three times more expensive to produce. Part of this is because the wells extract only a fraction of what conventional oils can extract, and they dry up within a year, which means more drilling. The cost to protect the water table from fracking is also expensive. It is possible that the end of conventional oil could lead to a drop and stable supply of unconventional oil, but even then, this would probably still make the inflation adjusted cost of gasoline being more expensive. What's more, based on extraction rates and rising costs to extract at more and more difficult places, at best we would see oil for another 100 years beyond the 50 years, assuming no change in demand. Demand is going to rise with emerging economies in Asia, Africa and South America growing in population and in consumption.

If you have evidence to the contrary then I'd love to see it. If you have a point to argue then I'd love to hear it, but what I hear isn't anything substantial. Just don't believe mainstream media. The deep state is trying to control us. Ignore science because they are bought and paid for and part of a global conspiracy. If you think there are counterpoints then post them up. Take them out of your echo chamber and post them here for scrutiny unless you are afraid that your beliefs might be broken down. If you have an open mind and willing to change your mind then do as I have done and be transparent about the reasons for your opinions.

What type of disaster do you think we are heading for? What would be so bad about the majority of people having EVs, for us having cheaper utilities with renewables, and for us getting off of foreign oil and having energy independence? What would be so bad about individual energy independence? People will be much more able to live off-grid and free from government utilities if they want. A person will be able to get solar and batteries for cheap and potentially disconnect from the grid entirely if they want while generating energy for their car without the need for paying Venezuela or the Middle East for gas like I know you guys hate.

I laugh at you guys talking about control, while providing no detail, elaboration or arguments (just empty quips and one liners), yet the energy revolution would allow for less control. You're too naive to see that. It would allow for more national independence and more individual independence.

There is a lot of left blaming the right and right blaming the left. People talk about freedom of speech, but one side is banning books on one side and the other is trying to ban hate language on the other side. Clearly, neither side can see their own hypocrisy. Clearly, neither side can put themselves inside the shoes of the other side. But most people are far more in the middle on many issues, but don't get as much time than the vocal and radical right and left on the internet.

The transgender issue is so overplayed on the right, they are down right obsessive about this issue that doesn't really affect anyone on a day-to-day basis, but that doesn't stop them from using it to galvanize their base to ban books and generate fear. Meanwhile the vast majority of middle America has no problem talking to transgender people, being respectful and polite to transgender people, and to pay them the courteousness of using their pronouns when it is appropriate. The left just wanted these people to have rights and to be free of having bigots be rude to them without recourse, and they often take that goal too far, but their ultimate goal is for people to be nice and accepting of everyone, and the vast majority of people are in this country.

Here is where the middle stands because this isn't a California thing. All major manufactures have made pledges to move to EVs. Many states have set similar standards. The vast majority of major governments have made pledges. Most major companies have plans to be net zero in the near future. The world is moving more to renewables. Liberals and conservatives are on board all over the world. The price of cheap renewables have won over investors on both sides of the political perspective because they can make the same profit with less capital investment and pass part of that savings onto consumers; it's a win-win. Most people would rather recycle than throw things in landfills. Most people would rather not create emissions. Most people would rather do better for the environment. Most people would rather have energy independence. The vast majority of people just want to have an inexpensive and reliable vehicle and don't care what's under the hood or even prefer EVs. Given price parity and ease and access to recharging, most people would prefer to own an EV for the drive, crash safety and ease of maintenance. EVs are especially popular among younger demographics like the iPhones of cars over rotary or flip phones of old.

Just so it is clear, I don't know of anyone saying you can't own a classic car or ICE at this time or in the future. I might keep mine forever. The only mandate is that new vehicles need to be EVs by a certain date, which isn't a libertarian issue. If you want to buy an ICE vehicle then you can do it just fine. You can try to buy an old one, import one and get it legalized, or build a kit car, if you so are inclined, but just like how you can't buy a car without airbags, catalytic converters or without seat belts, there are regulations and laws. That is part of living in a society.

Paradigm shifts. Global warming becomes climate change, going green becomes going electric, evs right now becomes ev somewhere down the road, fighting climate change becomes fighting the effects of climate change etc etc. Circle back to status quo

Careful bro, you're gonna make someone have to post another appeal to authority video featuring black tv science man the accused rapist.

You clearly don’t recognize or understand what an appeal to authority argument is by your statement. That argument goes: because someone said X, it must be true because of their position. All I did was provide a video quote instead of me explaining something using my own examples. He said it just fine.

You sound like a SJW. In America someone is innocent until proven guilty, except for those SJWs who think the opposite. Is that you bro?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/15BuyagtKucHm/giphy.gif

Well, figured out why this were being discounted. Both Electrify America and EV-Go have "banned" the use of 3rd party adapters that aren't sold by an OEM.

While they can't necessarily enforce it, what this does is allow them to deny liability if you use one and either your car, their charging station, or you are injured by the adapter.

lol. sure, jan.


I would actually like to buy an ev for my wife because despite what you might believe I'm not an ev hater.

Instead we're going to have to be driving our current vehicles for the next decade plus because the same clueless bureaucracy that you and tv troll "science" man think need to "help" have run the economy into the ditch and everything now costs 2-3x what it did three years ago.

But, you'll probably make a few nebulous claims, drag up some yt video with some clown from wallstreet like jim cramer to prove me wrong and pat yourself on the back as always so I'm just wasting my time replying.



bro, I'm just believing all women as your heroes that are gonna mandate us into this electric utopia told me I should. are you suggesting they could be wrong about something?

enjoy your cute gifs.

How about a couple pictures this time?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkS7kv1X0AMwioH.jpg
https://www.nationalworld.com/jpim-s...640&quality=65


So you saying you are a SJW? :popcorn:

lol

is this a government is going to save us from the scary evil corporations argument? I see your chart is from europe, the only place with arguably a worse track record than the united states of domestic, foreign and economic policy being utter failures in modern history.

But let's just pretend for a moment that those corporations are doing these evil corporation things outside of the economic policy those governments have created. How is more government involvement going to change that? It's almost as if the economic policy is the cause for it, or something....? Nah, let's just double down instead.


*edit* since you like charts so much

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...B8-2804104.png