That’s right here is the FA24 in the Outback. A setup like this on the twins would add weight to the hood and wouldn’t be the most efficient in terms of air flow.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c34ffb7aac.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c833837408.jpg

If it has 217 wheel horsepower it will be much quicker than the current gen car. All depends on where they're measuring output

I think it’ll be ~217 at the crank. Manufacturers never reference WHP. I do think we will get much more torque though.

I think this is gonna look much better than we are feeling right now. Front wheel bulges drawn all the way down to the front. Tail lights draw farther up the side of the car make for a nice rounder shape - feels a bit merc GT coupe with some m coupe, and with connected reflector which is on a lot of great cars, 911, FD.. The side mirrors rounder more elegant, and the side looks pretty decent overall. I like that lower angle on the rear side window.

If it performs better, retains its driver feel, and has a stronger engine we're in good shape.

The overall look of the car and the size of the brakes suggests that the weight hasn’t changed much.

I wonder how that jives with the reports we’ve gotten earlier from insiders that claimed the car had lost its way and that the second gen would for sure be a disappointment for the people who enjoy it for what it is now. They seemed to suggest that it got heavier and bigger.

:burnrubber:

Naturally Aspirated from the factory... always was and always will be.

Forced Induction is for the aftermarket with this model design.

:clap:

Also...

https://i.postimg.cc/26KM294t/vent02.png


https://i.postimg.cc/yxr1hTd6/vent01.png

Thanks for this, looking at the sketches and the pics, gives a good indication of the lines of the next gen. I think the fender flares/humps are there still, just not as pronounced. Overall a cautious thumbs up for the revised styling... :thumbsup:

The Naturally-Aspirated Outbacks have those “Vents” in the front too (although they seem to be more of a deflector rather than a vent).

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c62d8ec836.jpg

For me this would be the biggest disappointment. Styling and power doesn't overly concern me but bigger and heavier would negate any benefits.

This link from BMW shows how similar vents work on their cars. Looks like both vents are probably meant to reduce drag. I imagine they could potentially help cool brakes too.

https://www.bmw.cc/en/topics/fascina...odynamics.html

Those taillights look a lot like the ones on the Viziv concept!

https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/s...ound%7C875:492

Get ready for the gen2 recall the recalls!

If my 86 wasn't boosted for 3 reliable years straight at 300whp/255wtq I possibly would want this but I can never go back to N/A 4 cylinder ever again unless the car weighs less than 2400 lbs and offer at least 200hp. Boost has ruined me but I hope this car becomes successful but I need a boosted variant stock

This is all so reminiscent of Honda's direction with the Civic Si before they moved to the 1.5T. 8th gen had the venerable K20, and displacement was increased for the 9th gen to the K24. As a result, K24 hybrid swaps became popular.

I wonder if similar swaps could be a in the future for MK1 Toyobaru owners. I know Subaru engines aren't exactly designed to be interchangeable like Hondas, but with a sizable power increase without resorting to forced induction could be worth the effort and cost. Thoughts?

Define "sizable".

I’d go boosted, likely cheaper and to show you the “size”: 225kw/302hp

https://www.hp-f.com.au/performance-...-stage-4-225kw

Doubt any new NA motor would reach anywhere near that.

Or else I’d just buy the new model...

My conservative guess is 215-225 hp and 175-185 tq. for the new engine. If Subaru can maintain 100hp/L then 240 (seriously doubt that, and that's only if displacement is truly increased to 2.4L). That's a pretty significant bump in power by NA standards.

Then is it really worth swapping out an entire engine for at best 35hp. You’d just supercharge or turbo it, right?

I hope you're not interpreting my question as anything more than genuine curiosity.

The modifications one chooses to install is based entirely on the owner's risk appetite and their desired ownership experience. FI has a better cost to benefit ratio, I'm not arguing that. Forced induction kits are complex, however, leading to several points of failure. That could be a mechanical point of failure (installed incorrectly, defective parts) or a bad tune. Ultimately that is a major risk, no matter who is doing the work.

NA engines are simpler (for the most part), with less complexity and points of failure. Especially if you're simply swapping a factory engine. If it's possible to gain 35 hp, increase torque, and possibly smooth out the power band--all while while reducing risk, I believe it's worth the effort.

OK so the current rumour is 217KP from the NA 2.4. This is only 12 to 17 HP more than the 2.0 depending on the year. Hardly "sizable" and generally available from the 2.0 with a few inexpensive bolt ons and a decent tune. Easily surpassed if you want to throw a bit more cash at it and go FI or E85. Little point in spending a large chunk of cash on a swap to the 2.4.


There could be a case made that the 2.4 would stand boost better and you would end up well above the limits of the 2.0 but at this point we don't even know what the fuel system will be. Did Toyota jump in again or not? I suspect not but we just have to wait for real info not rumours. The 2.4 engines are new enough that they will not be available for cheap for at least a couple of years so on the financial end it still would not be a reasonable swap even to go FI.


If anybody here can get 240HP out of a NA boxer engine while meeting all price points and mileage/emissions standards please contact Subaru right away. You will be a super star for them!

The Ecoboost is 4000lbs with a power to weight ratio nearly identical to the current gen Twins. No way in hell would it lap a Twin on a track.


If their goal is to match the Ecoboost then no way in hell will we be seeing a turbo.

It isn't just a matter of pulling one factory engine out and dropping another one in. Wiring harnesses, ECU, mounting points, emission control systems, possibly clutch/tranny differences and even space in the engine bay would all come into play. The 2.4 was not designed for the current car and even though it is a "factory" engine it would take almost the same amount of work and money as any other swap. This is why you don't see many (any?) swaps for engines from the WRX or Sti even though they are fundamentally the same.

It was a Mustang vs 86 joke. Was not to be taken seriously.

Same here. I was hoping that they would come up with a new model based on the original sports car concept. And it looks like they did it. I might just buy an excellent sports car cheap and throw out the powertrain warranty again. I would actually welcome no turbo because I would choose supercharger. I am also hoping that they would switch to 8-speed ZF transmission from Supra. Not interested in having a clutch.

First clear look at GR86 / BRZ prototype during testing
 

No, the ecoboost Mustang is 3532lbs. And has significantly better power to weight, almost 20% better than the 86.

310/3532 = 0.0878
205/2780 = 0.0737

This is easily verifiable information, why spew bullshit when you can spend five seconds to Google it?

I did google it:
https://i.imgur.com/2WD4GO4.png


That is right off Ford's website. Why is their site that far off?


https://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/mo...oost-fastback/

First clear look at GR86 / BRZ prototype during testing
 

Whaaaaaaat? Is it the convertible?

Edit. No it’s not, I just checked too. Ford’s own numbers are way off!

Car and driver weighed it at 3556lbs:
https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/fi...1524250686.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/NddjaSq.png


I think it's an error because I found a PDF on the Ford site that had the numbers you gave. Sorry to spread fake news.. thought I could trust their own website.


So this is encouraging.. maybe we will see a larger boost in power.

You would think right!?

Sorry to jump down your throat on this, I never considered ford’s own numbers would be off by 500lbs!

My only guess is these numbers are actually GVWR and they mislabeled it curb weight. I almost fell out of my seat when I read those numbers. If I saw the numbers on any other site I would have called BS and continued my search.

Maybe they weighed it with two people inside.

Yes, they seem to have it slightly mislabeled, but that may be their intention in some weird form. The whole category where you find the vehicles weight is under CAPACITIES which talks about volume capacity, seating capacity, etc. So these weights are certainly referencing to GVWR. Definitely weird that they have it listed this way, and also odd that they would neglect to even mention the curb weight. It is what it is.

Im just glad the twins will get a 2nd gen, sold my 86 few months ago and Im ready for the new one but will wait to see what that corolla awd turbo all about.

If you were OK with boosting the previous gen 86, what's stopping you from doing the same with the new one? It'll probably just be even better. :thumbsup:

Even though I didn't have issues with mine yet I would love to have factory boost with a warranty next time.I rather do modifications in other areas besides the motor. If I was to ever buy the 2020/2021 Supra for instance I wouldn't touch that motor because it's fast/torquey enough for me. I would just do wheels,coilovers and a Mk4 style wing.

They're not going to source anything from ZF when Toyota's own Aisin subsidiary supplies its own transmissions.

I have an 8 speed Aisin FWD transmission in my X1. Its a very good transmission, shifts very fast, very smooth and the paddles are responsive when you get on it. Being a BMW i thought it was a ZF transmission for awhile, before I realized its FWD, and as far as i know ZF doesn't supply FWD transmissions.

I think the Aisin 8 speed RWD transmissions are only in the lexus cars, and I think Cadillac?

the bottom of the quarter window looks a little different than the current car.

https://i.imgur.com/h59l84k.jpg
https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/2012...00366512_h.jpg

The front-end looks clean much like the series 1 BRZ circa 2012/13. The rest of the car looks like what we are driving.. so what's the change?? Bigger engine and a duck tail boot lid..

I think you mean AAxx transmissions. I have been very happy with A960E, AA80E upgrade would be great as well but I wonder how much will be the weight difference.

I am happy about that. There will be a car to buy when mine needs replacement.