Meh. Buying a salvage title is probably the worst choice of all.

Man I'd MUCH rather replace an engine or trans than deal with a rusty car.

Then again we can pull two motors out of these and install the good one back in the good car in less than 4 hours soooo..

I understand that opinion. I used to hold it myself.

I don't hold that opinion anymore obviously. It all depends on the damage and how it was repaired. I would not buy a car where the extent of the damage isn't being disclosed/etc. Cars with minor damage are so easy to repair CORRECTLY that it's kind of silly to just ignore them out of hand IMO.

The exact same statements can be applied to the high mileage well used cars though. Mileage is not a good indication of condition. If it is easy to fix damaged cars it is just as easy to replace worn parts.


For the record I have no objection to a well done rebuild either but in the order of value it really is the worst option for many people.

Well I have bought a car with 225k on the chassis in Portland, OR and drove it back to Tampa, FL soooo I might not be the best one to listen to in general! haha (and that car is still worth more than all my 86s... )

But what makes it a bad value? If you can get the car for 30-40% less than a clean title example, with the understanding that it'll always be 30-40% less valuable, then you can get a better car for less. I don't mean one that has had two cars welded into one, like so many Miami FL rebuilds are known for, but one that just needs a few front end parts etc?

The worst part of it's value is insurance. It costs the same but pays out less. That part does suck - no question. That's why I self insure comp/collision on mine......

But to put it this way, would you buy a lightly hit but fixed (with documented repairs/parts/etc) car with 60k miles or clean title example with 120k for the same price? Assume both are maintained, etc.

But whatever I have both a clean title AND a rebuilt title car for sale for the OP!!! hahaha

Thanks dude, but still kinda far for me lol

Buy one with the fewest mods on it in the newest model year you can find. Buy the manual version, and wait to see if you get bored.

If you aren't even sure if you want standard or auto, you definitely won't mind the features the newer car brings.
As someone who was bit in the ass, do not buy a salvage 2013. If it's affected by the recall and you decide to take it in, you will most likely get burned somehow.

My car is a flood car and I bought it in 2015 for $11,500. I love it, but I also prefer the "less is more". Seat heaters, push button start, knee pads, steering wheel controls? That's just stuff that gets in the way of me taking the interior apart and putting it back in. I use the mirrors for driving backwards and can reach to adjust volume if I want.

As I said initially; buy the newest model year in your flavor of choice within your budget, and buy a manual.

I didn't say it was bad value I said it was the worst option in the value chain. You yourself explained why. I was not speaking to quality.

I would buy the clean title car wit the assumption that they are the same quality. Mileage is the last consideration in my list. There are some great 100K cars and some beat to shit 10K ones.

For most people, suspension work,brakes, and minor cosmetic work is easy to do at home. Let’s be honest most people are not pulling a motor and trans at home. They are paying for it. Paying for some rust is much cheaper than engine/tranny work.

Plus you can live for awhile with a bit of rust, but you can’t drive the car with a blown engine or tranny.

Clearly it’s different for different people, neither are wrong, one size does not fit all.

Or you northerners just expect it. Rust is shit here in the south. Makes a car worthless :)

But paying 30-40% less for something WORTH 30-40% less isn't a bad value *except* when insurance is concerned (you didn't bold that part ;) ).

It depends on what you personally value. Do you value words on a title? Or do you value performance per $? Depending on that it either makes a well rebuilt vehicle more valuable TO YOU or it makes it worthless. In the true "rebuilt is shit" camp there is no such thing as a good rebuilt car ;)

For my case, my red FRS hail damaged failed 2013 recall car is a *great value*. I get every bit of performance and enjoyment out of it for less than 6 grand. It's a 27K chassis. With a 40k engine. I couldn't touch a clean title version of that for less than 6k. That makes it an INSANE value for me. All in, with ACE shit, brakes, 2 way dampers, 3 sets of wheels, r comps, blah blah blah I'm maybe 11k into the thing at the moment. And when I smash it into a wall at the track.. WGAF...

I realize this is kind of a pointless conversation since I buy them wrecked and fix them myself and all........ my only point is that a rebuilt title doesn't represent bad value to ALL owners.. just those that need to pay full insurance costs for a car that the ins co pays out less for. But really, that's built into the purchase price so it shouldn't be a surprise. Still, over several years, that $ in ins premiums can eat into that. I get it - just expect it.

FWIW though I insured my 2015 BRZ at full value after insurance inspected it and previous damage. Granted I never made a claim but they recorded the cars condition and saw no reason to screw me. I did cancel comp/collision since the BRZ was about 2x as much to insure as my 650hp Camaro lol

I personally just dont want to buy something that was previously broken.
especially if im dropping thousands and thousands of dollars for it.

You tend to pay less when things are broken. Bald tires, spent brakes, shot suspensions all will decrease the value of the car. Who pays a lot for a car with a broken engine or tranny. Deals are out there when things are broken, especially if what’s broken would be removed and trashed for upgraded parts.

For the twins, how many perfect condition stock wheels, tires and exhaust components are for sale at cheap prices because no one wants them because they all upgrade those parts. I see no reason in picking a car that has the most perfect stock parts that you plan on trashing anyway.

In fact it would be great if Subaru would offer a cheaper BRZ without wheels, brakes, tires, stock intake filters, and exhaust. Then I could put my money right into the upgraded parts. My shed has a ton of my stock parts from an 04 WRX and 16 BRZ.

https://www.motor1.com/news/29852/to...-released-jdm/

https://performancedrive.com.au/wp-c...RA-630x478.jpg

I saw this. That’s why I said it. It’s a good idea for sure.

Not necessarily a pos, but you can find inexpensive vehicles in pretty good condition. I mean there seem to be tons of 2013 frs out there with less than 50k miles. I bought at the high end of the spectrum, and now realize it was a dumb idea because most of my interior is out and I still want to go lighter. Live and learn.




A 2013 will be worth less than a 2016 no matter what the condition of either car. There are plenty of low mileage 2013 in decent shape. As long as you are willing to hunt around and travel a bit you should be able to find one. I would rather pay $12k for a 2013 frs in decent to good condition than $20,000 plus for any of these cars with all the bells and whistles. I bought the one with the most bells and whistles at the time I was buying. It sucks to realize that most of them are lying in my apartment because the car is much more fun without an interior. Push button start is totally annoying in many ways. Key less is nice until the battery dies and leaves you stranded who knows where.Having a blue interior instead of the red is wonderful, except at this point I want to remove almost everything with that blue, so what's the point?


Buying a car for the intentions you are going to use it for is a much better idea. Hell, I'd take a look at the rebuilds @Dave-ROR does because I am sure they are repaired correctly before buying a newer car if I was going to do it again.


Now if you are like @Tcoat then absolutely buy the newest best car you can afford. From what he says the newer cars are better in every way.



Funny in how that is exactly what I said in fewer words.

How would a keyless system leave you stranded? There's a physical key to lock and unlock the door, and all you have to do to start the car is hold the fob right up against the push start button to start the engine. I think it's better than wearing out the ignition or key itself when ever the key is inserted to start the engine.

Because like anything else, that is easier said than done. Yes theoretically that should work just fine. In the real world I had to have everything absolutely lined up perfectly and it took several tries and finally it worked, but it was not easy.


Just like turning on the alarm for the limited BRZ takes practice, and the pedal dance takes practice. And you're assuming everyone knows exactly how to do it and where to put the fob, which will never be the case.


You cannot wear out a keyed ignition. Cars simply don't last long enough for that to happen.

You absolutely can, my roommate did it on his 300,000 mile early 90s BMW.

I used to do it all the time back when I sold Toyotas. Don't really need to line up the fob perfectly. Just having it against the button was enough. No one showed me how to do it, they just told me to have the key next to the button.

I wore out a key before to the point where unlocking, and locking the car was very difficult (that car did not have power door locks).

Too bad you want a manual, I am thinking of selling mine.

2013 FRS
Ultramarine
Auto
44,000 miles
No accidents, clean title, title in hand
OEM spoiler, OEM Fog lights, 2017 OEM radio with navigation installed
OEM Platinum warranty for another 1 year.

MODS: TRD Exhaust, TRD Intake (not the filter, the entire intake), TRD forged wheels (The ones that came on Release series 2.0 but dark grey instead of that shiny black chrome RS2.0 had), TRD Sway bars, TRD front strut bar, TRD oil cap, TRD Shift knob), OEM clear bra installed.

Valve springs recall NOT done yet because I get paranoid that it will be worst afterwards. Never been track or raced.

It was my daily for 3 years until it sat in garage. I used to work for Toyota corporate in Torrance before they moved to Texas. I was their corporate product trainer, so the vehicle is taken care of.

You should buy the 2015 I'm selling, great shape, no accidents, reasonable price! :)

OP bought a new BRZ already.

This is a fear of mine as well. I've read some stories,and I don't trust my local Toyota dealers to work on a boxer engine. I really wish I could take it to the Subaru dealer and get it done.

I guess I'll get them done when I need to replace the clutch and waterpump(or when the engine blows up).

Not sure where you’re located but I hear that if the recall isn’t done, the registration cannot be renewed. Mine is coming up in August....

Mine is coming up next month,but the recall was issued in December,2018. I had no problem re-registering my car last year,and have had other cars that were under recall,and re-registered those as well.



It's never been an issue here. The only thing that prevents getting a car registered here in Illinois is a failed emissions test,and that has happened to me before.

That's a California thing only from what we've seen on here.

That would make no difference.

It has nothing to do with it being a boxer engine. The seal used in this engine that causes the issues seen is unique to this Subaru engine. Your risk is no higher at Toyota than it is Subaru. Also, at this point all you need to do is talk to the dealer, ask who will be doing the work and how many they have done.

The risk of failure is low and if it happens, they will make it right despite the few examples on here where they didn't.

Or, you could just not do it and don't worry about it unless you live in CA. Then you always have the option to move I suppose.

It kind of *is* related to being a boxer engine though. Because it’s a boxer it has a split crank case, which no current Toyota engine design uses. So the Toyota techs aren’t used to sealing up engine blocks like this, they’re used to using gaskets which are a lot easier.

All other boxer engines in this recall use gaskets as well, or so I gather from what I've read here. It is only this engine that has the sealant.

Man,I'd really hate to live and own a car in Cali. Seems like a totally no fun state when it comes to car regulations.

I haven't worried about it yet,tbqh. You're right though,I could ask the service department at my dealership how many they've done,but again,I'll just wait until I need a new clutch and kill two birds with one stone.