$17000 dampers vs $200 sway bar
 

Finally had a chance to have my suspension/driving guru take a long hard test drive with the custom Öhlins TTX/TPX dampers, over the sorts of roads that they were developed for.
After returning from the drive loop, he hopped out and said "look the dampers are absolutely amazing...but somethings not quite right".
My heart sank.
But on hearing that I had kept a hollow 18mm adjustable rear bar fitted, he smiled and said that's your problem..."just throw it away and refit the standard bar!".
Two days later on the same loop, he jumped out with a huge smile and said "that car is an absolute delight....I just wanted to keep driving all week"
Basically the new dampers and springs can do much more of the 'work', much more precisely, and independently from each other.
Stiffer sway bar, less compliance.
So the moral of the story is that even 'mega' dampers can be compromised by a sway bar. My friends view is that ideally in a perfect world you should not need a sway bar, and that it is in itself a very agricultural solution to what is usually a complex problem... in other words its at its most useful at a fine tuning level.
(NB this is only relevant to this car's (rough, fast) road driven development, I'm sure there are many other thoughts and practices with sway bars that are also legitimate)

The dampers gold plated by any chance?

Ha...sort of... :)

They deserve to be on show in something like this not hidden deep in an ugly wheel well:

What front bar do you have on it?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

so what change did the aftermarket bar make? was it stiffer or less stiff?

i've read of a similar sentiment in other suspension posts, where people get fixated on controlling body roll in corners, and start trying to to beef up the sway bars to counteract the physics of body roll without taking any time to understand how it negatively affects specific corner dampening that can have a much larger effect on overall performance.

18mm hollow would be stiffer than stock.

In an ideal world, wouldn’t active dampers dynamically reduce roll by increasing dampening on the inner wheels and reducing rebound on the outer wheels, and roll bars wouldn’t be needed?

So are these dampers softer, equal to or stiffer than stock? Seems like there is always the debate of soft springs with stiff sway bars or stiff springs with soft sway bars, but not stiff n stiff or soft n soft. The idea of soft dampeners is to have a compliant ride and better vertical suspension travel with a stiff sway bar for reduced movement under lateral loads. How would you describe your setup?

@Irace86.2.0 : check this thread.

If you think the stock rear bar (14mm) is compliant, you should check out the Mann Engineering rear bar. It is amazing on ultra rough canyon roads.

Perfect off-road suspension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KPYIaks1UY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

Dampers are generally not intended to control body roll.

I'm considering softer than stock front and rear bars for my car, but that's for gravel. It may make things a little worse on tarmac. Cusco has a 16mm front bar and a hollow 14mm rear (and there's the Mann bar).

Just for kicks...check out the landings in this video. Very different damper valving than what you see on a good road course set up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac7ur...ature=youtu.be


- Andrew

Irace86.2.0: dynamically adjustable suspension indeed is about perfect for performing it's function, no wonder active suspension was banned in F1 due providing great unfare advantage. But there are few "buts"/cons aswell. Especially so in light of use for common, daily driving applications. Not just cost/complexity, but also wear. One thing something overhauled between every race, another - which should last at least 20K miles, while not costing arm and leg. Be adjustment via air, hydraulic, turning knobs like in EDFC, or magnetorhelogical, or electromagnetic linear motors as in mentioned Bose system. All cost a lot, add complexity (thus things to potentially fail), and last less then "classic" dampers. Which, given high enough budget can perform rather well even without dynamic adjustment, if that budget is invested in quality & fine tuning or custom designing for a use. It might loose on some points while also win or not have some cons in other areas. And as dynamically proactively adjustable suspension is such a rare appearance, my hunch tells me that market has voted that on average as overall product/as compromise, pros are not that good and cons are serious enough.

@Racecomp Engineering: well, tarmac rally setup also is beast on it's own :)

I think it will trickle down. It is in use in the Audi S8 and other cars. With Lidar and other camera tech becoming mainstream, active suspension will eventually make it into cheaper cars just like active diffs, active suspension has worked its way down, just like ABS and other systems before them.