Correct, they're quick at the start of their life and as they wear then tend to give up grip due to how the tire was designed.

To make things more complicated, this was TR's test:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=223

No question, ECS in completely standing water will be quicker simply because of void tread vs PS4S. PS4S is quicker (IMO) in basically all rain instances because the chances of a monsoon event are slim to none (where you have visible standing water). I've found for the most point all rain instances are either wet (not standing) or in a transition phase where it's wet going to dry. In these cases, PS4S will be significantly quicker than ECS (which is something none of these tire tests show because it's always just full bore wet). The transition phase from ECS to say RE-71R is basically once dry patches start forming you need to switch ASAP or you're already late. PS4S you can let it almost become fully dry before switching because the tire still performs well under semi-wet conditions (as long as it's kept cool and doesn't overheat). If that makes any sense.

You can't compare PSS to PS4S. I can't even relate the two.

I ran Conti ECS 245/40 on 17x9 and now same tire on same wheel in PS4s. Both for 2 years of DD/autox rain use. While I don't have track times on the actual track to compare, my thoughts/opinions are related to autox and how the tire performs under those conditions. So, threshold of grip and how the tire recovers is "probably" a bit more important to autox?

PS4S in the wet is simply like cheat mode. I can only compare against others in the class in same conditions when they were running RE-71Rs or similar and it is seconds.

I know the weight penalty is higher with A052s...but worth consideration

Remember that the Conti and MPS4S both will heat cycle, but the Conti physically can get hotter and thus, cycle itself faster and also showing higher friction (grip).

The MPS4S has a softer sidewall, which tends to help driver confidence with intermediate level drivers, but the sustained grip of the Conti is greater, given a comparison of fresh tires of both compounds.

The MPS4S lasts significantly longer than the Conti, and rides quieter/softer.

I used to compete in a class that mandated 220+TW tires, and have tried basically all the tires personally on my BRZ.

Nankang NS2R
Achilles 123S
Michelin PS4S
Continental ECS
Federal 595

Some others that I don't remember as the results were poor.

Generally put 7 heat cycles on tires per event, 6x 15-20 minute sessions and then 5-lap TT (1 in, 3 hot, 1 out). Sometimes open-track too which'd be an 8th cycle. How many events do ya reckon they would they be good for?

Ah, how fresh is fresh?!

Very cool thanks for info :thumbsup:

These tires will all be 1 lap wonders; take a slow outlap when new, and go harder when they're cycled as they wont heat up as quickly. Cooldown laps will work as long as the pavement isn't too hot. You can also pull into the pits and water the tires a lot between laps. If you have time, I would recommend outlap, hot lap, hot pit + water, outlap, hotlap, inlap.

As far as cycling goes, I'd say you'll get 4 competitive sessions out of them. Beyond that, it'll depend purely on how quick your competition is. First few sessions is fastest as usual.

For the fresh comparisons, it would be sticker vs sticker. I've used a few sets of ECS, but TONS of MPS4S, as that's my default go-to true street tire. It's value for strictly street use is unbeatable, and I've worked for some companies that were Michelin partnered, and effectively had an unlimited supply of 4S/CUP2.

Both of these tires run wide for a "normal" tire.

Welp, their good laps are going to be consumed in practice. Events are two days and time trial is the end of day 2, so 1st TT with them they'll already have six 15-20 minute sessions on them. TT is three laps with other cars staggered 20 seconds apart, so no coming in for tire spraying.

See how it goes... It's not gonna be practical to save tires for the TT.

Nice!

Depending how first event goes, I might get another set of tires for event 2. Which could be another set of ECS to save for TT, or MP4S, or Rival S.

Have you tried the Yokos Neova AD08R? I got a brand new set SUPER cheap because of a store closure sale, and was wondering if they are going to be good for HPDE. Not looking to set records.

it isn't 220+ Doesn't qualify for this particular discussion.

That said, yes, I have.

For 5c (40f) - 10c (50f) and light rain wet track, do you prefer PS4S over ECS? I heard ECS is better in warmer temperature and PS4S still pretty grippy between 40f to 50f, is that true?

Rain a lot in my area especially March to May and September to November. Just want to think of back-up plan on which "wet" tire to go for.

Thanks!