Picked up a 2017 MT 86 that has been tracked. Help?
 

Good afternoon all,

I'm very new here, so if this needs to be moved or has been addressed please let me know. However, I've spent 10+ hours researching this and what I need is professional help.

I just purchased a FBO/EcuTek dyno tuned 2017 86 with 11,600 miles *from a dealer* clean carfax, one owner.

The car has an oil cooler and a 7,800 RPM redline - after posting on reddit and listening to some responses, it has become clear to me that this car was a track toy.

I purchased a 6 year/60,000 mile service contract through Toyota that should cover any issues - theoretically. I did this because the manufacturer's warranty was unsurprisingly voided - the VIN was flagged. Though I doubt the finance office and the salesperson communicated so who knows whether they would honor anything that breaks as a result of the POs tuning.

The tuner I purchased it from is useless for info. They will only tell me vaguely what was done and when. No printouts, nothing else.

Here it is:

At 7,308 miles the following work was completed...

Auto design UEL catless header, FP/OP
TRD intake
TRD sway bars
Mishimoto oil cooler
200whp 93 octane dyno tune (EcuTek)
7800 RPM rev limit
Full clear vinyl rap
+ more I'm too frazzled to remember right now


I love the car. Okay? It has been my dream car since early high school when rumors started. However, I have a couple major questions that I want your expert opinions on.

1.) How can I tell how long this car was driven on track? I have heard that one mile on a track is like ten in regular driving. It has some scraping on the underside of the front lip (likely track curbs right?), but nothing crazy under body and no wheel damage I can see. Perhaps I can post detailed pics or email someone kind enough to advise? How much could PO really have driven it?

2.) How do these vehicles stand up to track use with this tune, etc? The man had it for a little over a year so he had to have put some hard track miles on it. Am I looking at still being able to get 100-150,000 miles out of this car?

3.) I paid (sorry if this is faux-pa) 18,500 before tax/fee. Did I fuck up? Should I return it and exchange before the dealer's 7 day period runs out? It seems clean. If they tracked it, it's not too torn up.

4.) I have a CEL (I think it's P0420 b/c cruise control won't work) and I've read that EcuTek should be able to mask these. My tuner said PO knew once it was dyno tuned w/ the header it would have a CEL. Are they full of sh*t? Having a CEL in such a low mileage car sends my OCD through the roof. Does nearly everyone with UEL catless headers get this?

5.) Big apologies for the redundancy if any of you guys are there too (I know USG_Mike is) but here's the reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/commen...m_source=share

excuse the url gore, no reddit at work.

Anyway, thank you all so much in advance. I'll go ahead and f- right off if this belongs in another subsection of the forum.

1. You can’t but considering it’s a 2017, assume 3 years

2. Very well. Oil cooler is sign that measures were taken to protect the engine. Tune as well

3. Not sure about this.

1) You can't. There is really nothing that scream track toy over lightly street modded to me.


2) Would need more info for the tuning gurus to help but beyond the 7,800 redline a similar tune is probably on half the cars out there. The mods are very common and not even remotely extreme.


3) The price is about right. The only reason I would return it is if you can't get over the concerns. I will say again none of that list is an issue and most certainly in no way confirmation the car has ever seen a track.


4) Reddit is the WORST place to get info on these cars. Well, Facebook is close. I am not going to go read it but predict it is full of "experts" with all sorts of hogwash speculation and outright bullshit.


Relax, drop the redline, fill up with 93 and enjoy the small gains in HP all those base mods get you.

I agree with Tcoat, none of you have posted about the car is a bad sign for return. Just keep driving and enjoy.

Thank you for your reply. I am very (actually clinically) OCD and this is my first major car purchase so the thought of relaxing is actually quite pleasing, haha.

I suppose to point one, you're saying he could have trailered it to every track day available for 3 years, or kept it completely on the street - so those 11.5k miles could be either way. If these cars are as intended for the track as my research suggests, perhaps it will make 150k anyway. Eh?

so you are just assuming that it was a track toy because it is modified? I am pretty lost how you came to that conclusion with no real evidence.

Those mods don't really sound like a heavily tracked car to me. Normal indicators for a track car:

- dedicated track wheels and tires (200 tw, rcomps or slicks)
- filthy BBK and track pads
- track suspension
- oil cooler
- wing/splitter/aero/vents
- rock/gravel damage to paint

And then if heavily tracked:

- aftermarket seats and harness
- gutted/fire suppression
- roll cage
- sponsor stickers

From what you're saying, it sounds like the oil cooler is the only indication it had been tracked. Even if it saw some light track use, I wouldn't worry about it. Just drive and enjoy!

I am saying that it has probably never seen a track at all not that it was trailed there. Hell at that mileage even if tracked there would be little to worry about.

CEL *with* a pro tune is a big red flag to me. Maybe confirm the code? You said "I think". FYI cruise control doesn't work if there's any CEL. Most if not all pro tunes eliminate the cat code first thing, so it almost sounds like the guy removed the tune before trading the car in.

Ya the CEL was not included in his original post and was edited in later. I would also check to make sure that the tune is actually in place.

Sounds like he removed the tune if you're still getting a P0420 with an aftermarket header.

I had the same issue with my previous FR-S. Previous owner didn't bother tuning it and it would throw a P0420 for cat efficiency, which made it no fun to road trip back to GA from NJ since cruise control wouldn't work when the CEL was on.

Once I tuned it and disabled the cat codes, everything was good again.

Oil cooler suggests that the previous owner wanted to preserve the engine on track. I did a light track day in my stock BRZ w/ PP and even driving 3/10ths the oil temps were too high to be comfortable with.

Drive it like you stole it.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

In my opinion just the full clear wrap alone is a good indication it wasn't thrashed by the previous owner.
Not many people would spend the big money to protect the paint with PPF to keep it in new condition only
to then not take care of the engine. Some people may disagree but I think the paints condition is a good
gauge of how the car's health was kept. As said, CEL probably from putting stock tune back in.

For a few reasons, I'd return the car for a full refund of the purchase price, fees, and service contract. I realize this is contrary to everyone else's advice because:


--In order to qualify for a Toyota Extra Care Extended Warranty, the used vehicle must be certified. There's no way a Toyota flagged for warranty cancellation can be certified. Is it an Extra Care Warranty or 3rd party? If 3rd party, I honestly wouldn't count on their help if needed.



--There's no way to disprove a negative so you'll always be wondering "what if" and with your clinical OCD diagnosis, every unusual sound (and thin skinned 86's have plenty) may become stressful.


--Look up the vehicle sales and service history to verify if it's ever been dealer serviced. Independents or owner services aren't logged but it's a start since you'd think with two free services from new that the owner has returned to a dealer for service and maybe that's when it was flagged for some reason you need to know.


Start here, enter your VIN and let us know what you found:


https://www.toyota.com/owners/


--Depending on your state of residence, can you even get it through DEQ? In my state it would fail with a CEL making registration impossible until the car is fixed.


Good luck, just wanted to offer a contrary opinion based on sketchy available information.

It has the tune. The shop that installed it showed me, they have their sticker and shop signatures of everyone who worked on it in the boot lid.

AFAIK it has the standard adjustable launch control, FFS, BS, and some weird setting when I click down on the cruise control the tach goes up to 10, then 9.5, 9, etc and the shift light stays on. No idea what that does. I have verified the tune is installed and working.

The sales rep said that they notified the PO it will have a CEL with the tune (he blamed the headers) but research suggests EcuTek can mask this. I will use my obd scanner and torque tonight and update everyone. It goes away after 20-40 miles.

Still has the tune. CEL is intermittent. LC still works.

I appreciate your input.

With the OCD, you're absolutely right. Nuff said.

It was their platinum vehicle service agreement - Toyota direct. I agree that this application would likely be rejected.

It has been dealer serviced, the 7.5k and 15k maintenance was done early. Quite early. The car actually went to dealer auction at one point while changing hands.

I can register in a non emissions county for DEQ - I do this for my Miata.

The only other option is a '19 for 25k or an auto '17-18 for 19k.

I only make enough to justify affording 18-19, but the peace of mind may be worth it. I'm still very much in the fence.

The 2019 is Halo white though, and white is my color of choice on any sports car.

For negotiating ammo, CarGurus can help. I plugged in a new 2019 in my area and found the asking prices in the low $20K range but there's strong regional incentives here that may be better or worse where you are.


https://www.cargurus.com/


Either way, the dealer made a big error, unforced or not, in selling you a service contract on an ineligible vehicle. For that reason alone, I'd be out.

way too many personal questions for a 'dream car'. i agree with the assessment to return it while you can. but not for any particular issue with the car.

psychologically, if anything goes wrong, i don't get the feeling you'll ever be able to see it as a routine or age-related breakdown. i think anything that goes wrong for you will be blamed as a direct result of (mis)handling by the previous owner(s), regardless of the reality.

the car is used. cars purchased second hand are all going to be used. some are eaten in, some are smoked in, some are--nevermind--, and some are driven hard.

for me, a vehicle that was used hard isn't really a problem, it's always more how it was used hard, and what they did to take care of it. if i see evidence of hard use, i look for more extreme maintenance routines. i look at the wheels to see if they were meticulous enough to clean the brake dust off. i look in the cracks and crevices that no one really looks at for dirt/debris. i look for tool marks on parts that should have been replaced.

Some kid doing donuts and burnouts will put 10X the stress on a car that was tracked with respect

These are valid points based upon his EDITED first post.

What changed?

STOP!


When you pull back on the cruise control and the move it up and down (as displayed by the rpms moving like an dial indicator) you are changing through maps or different tunes. If you do not know the tune then dont change it. Many of us tuned with ecutek have diferent tunes for different setting, timings and fuel types (91, 93, 105, ethanol....)


If you run the car hard in a map without the correct fuel to support it you may damage or blow the engine due to knock.


https://www.ecutek.com/Products/Reta.../map-switching


Yes,you can disable 420cel with ecutek. The car is reporting the cat isn't working between the a/f and o2 sensors. Most catless/hi flow cat headers will do this.

Added the whole line about the CEL. Originally no mention at all and only the 4 points I answered. If there are already issues with the car it changes my whole answer.

^ +1 to this. IMHO you've bought a car that was the pride and joy of the previous owner. If it was a track weapon it wouldn't have a clear wrap and it would be more heavily modded for track use and would show signs of obvious abuse.

my car: TRD lowering springs, TRD sway bars, Whiteline Strut bar, Intima SR Brake pads, whiteline steering bush kit, MTEC clutch and shifter springs, Whiteline positive shift kit and whiteline differential mount bushings. Screams light track use doesn't it??

My car has never been tracked, used on weekends only in the twisties and it's driven the way it was designed to be driven. it's maintained within an inch of its life, and over serviced by me. I effing love my car.

just enjoy your new car and STOP worrying!

I'm in the camp of get rid of it because of the psychological aspect of it. You're going to find it difficult to keep yourself from blaming PO for anything that happens....even worse if you're bad OCD then you'll probably be thinking not "if" but "when is it going to break on me?". It sounds to me like you need a stock car that you can then modify to your tastes yourself.

I would still not return the car. P0420 is most probably due to catless header and a bad tune. Just get a used stock header from ebay and return back to stock tune. You will be much happier.

I'd return it.
But then again personally i'd want a car that hasnt been molested by someone else.

And yet I can't even give my Lava away at this point!

I agree with the general statement that nothing proves this car was tracked. I'd look for underside and wheel damage (like I did when I purchased mine), but the mods alone do not make it sure it was tracked.

The following questions would concern me:
-Bad tune that doesn't clear the P0420 code (maybe putting the FP back helps?)
-Main warranty was voided - why?
-Sold with an additional Toyota warranty, but will it work if the main one was voided?

It's up to you to know how good a deal you scored on the car, and whether it makes sense to keep it with the above questions possibly open. It's also up to you to know how serious your OCD is and how much it may prevent you from enjoying the car.

Also, keep in mind the likelihood of you having purchased a steaming pile of garbage are low. I can also get quite worried in such situations, but it's important to keep in mind that we tend to make things look much worse than they are ;).

Return the car and get refund.

It will always be a burr under your saddle.

Can you confirm that the warranty will be honored with the current mods in writing from either the head of the service dept. or the re-seller? I'd start there.

If no, then the dealer might have bought the without knowing the full history of the mods, and are now just trying to get it off the lot for cheap before it becomes a headache. That's my primary concern.

"2017 86 with 11,600 miles *from a dealer* clean carfax, one owner. $18,500 before tax/fee."

Is that what these go for, or are you a good negotiator OP? Seems inexpensive to me.

Personally, I would get rid of it. A base '17 86 with 25~30,000 miles and an extended warranty will be enough to fulfill you "dream car" fantasy.

Good luck.

I thank you all so much for your replies and support!

I do not think I got a raw deal, necessarily, but I confirmed any and all warranties or VSCs are void and null.

I gave the dealership some hell and acquired a 2019 86 with 5k miles off a lease for a reasonable price. It's the fancy GT trim with a TRD exhaust.

I'm confident with wrenching on my old Miata and e30s but having peace of mind at this pricepoint was necessary.

The comments about the typical history were insightful into the community and use cases but the ones about the unknown history of this vehicle always bugging me out hit home.

I'll write an introductory post tomorrow. This is my platform and for now wheels, tires and TRD springs are a good start! Any other suggestions (not voiding powertrain warranty) are welcome!

Again, thank you all so much. What an informative community. It's not crazy, but this car - even stock - is all I want or need for the near future.

Congrats, @bazzookatooth, good move IMO.

For DD use, switching to synthetic manual trans, diff, and brake fluids were cost effective. For auto-x and track use, upgraded brake pads all around make for a quicker, safer car, and a drop in TRD intake filter element improves throttle response.

You can get a Subaru trunk lid liner for about $50 that finishes that area cosmetically and might even make it slightly quieter.

Pioneer makes a PnP head unit with Android/Apple capability on sale from BestBuy for $400 installed.

Pictures, please!

And I could return a car that lived it's life at the track to stock and sell it and the new owner wouldn't post a thread like this.

It's a 2017 with 11,500 miles. It doesn't matter if it was tracked or not really as long as the car is maintained. The same goes for a street car. So I agree to check service and see what's there.

And FWIW another sign of a track car would be LOTS of alignment entries in carfax if Toyota/Subaru were the ones doing the alignment ;)

Now the tune is a warranty issue.. if the OP intends to tune anyways no big deal. (edit: OP cared ha)

If I was looking for a track car I would go with something like one of you rebuilds over a total unknown street car in a heartbeat. A well documented and properly done build trumps a mystery vehicle to me every time regardless of what initial appearances may be.
As judgmental, stereotyping and even prejudice as it may seem I would NEVER buy a vehicle with even the smallest amount of plastidip on a surface. Not because it hurts anything but to ME it is an Imeadiate red flag that things were done cheaply. If plastiidp is somebody's go to method of "modding" their car where else did they cut corners?

Apples and Lemons.

My post was aimed at only one unique 86 with an incurable defect, the OP's #1 car, not the universe of the series.

Whether that defect (voided warranty) was caused by a tune or something else, nobody knows or will say. It could've been much more and as we know, Carfax is in too many cases useless.

I'd never buy any car with a voided warranty and that one left 1-2 years and 40k+ miles of drivetrain warranty on the table.

Another red flag the OP described is that the car had already been through auction then bought by a Toyota dealer. Their auction gypsy probably made a mistake in due diligence then it spiraled into an unethical situation when the dealer represented the car as certified, required for an Extra Care extended warranty. Bad dealer.

I thought the OP was courageous to be as forthcoming in so many ways. He could put a cherry on top by posting the VIN and selling dealer so others will be alerted to do their research carefully. You really shouldn't expect a franchised Toyota dealer to do business that way.

Anyway, if you ever decide to sell your ZL1, I'm interested if the warranty is still intact!

Warranty is intact for sure.. but currently absolutely no desire to sell. Haven't even considered it.

if you have the extreme OCD why buy a car you know was modded in the the first place?

I'm guessing he thought the mods were in line with his plans and was falsely led to believe that the car would have a top tier extended warranty.