Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Next Gen BRZ thoughts (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138722)

NoHaveMSG 01-25-2020 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph (Post 3293562)
Not at all. The turbo-charged WRX comes in @$28K and has a far more complex and costly AWD drivetrain as well. A FA20DIT or FA24DIT swap wouldn’t be anywhere near the Zupra’s B58 engine. Also, the emissions thing has already been figured out. Those FADIT engines exist today.
Ever heard of "economy of scale"? They sell vastly more variations of Imprezza's which effects the price/cost of all Imprezza models.

We talk about this all the time at work whenever sales get this idea to come out with a new model. They get a :slap: and are shown the numbers, and how many of this new model they would have to sell to cover just the development cost. Then they go back to hiding in their hole.

I'd like to see an actual WRX at an actual dealership with a 28K sticker. Just because the SOA website shows the WRX starting there, doesn't mean dealers actually order them spec'd that way. Current model year too, not old new stock carry over.

bcj 01-25-2020 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph (Post 3293562)
The only complaints I always hear are lack of torque.

The car is perfect, other than the lack of torque.
Heard from other bench racers that have never driven one either.

Have another look at the torque curve.
Huge initial low torque that's ideal for city work and 1-2 gear corners in the hills.
I've had mine up at that altitude as well many times.
All I'm hearing is the Mo Powa trombone tune in a different key.

Hertzawurlitzer or whoever the CO dealer is was selling every one that they could latch onto.
They were selling deep into surrounding states too because they could cut the price closer than Scion with the one price deal.
The 9 to 1 production Toy to Sub didn't help the situation that much.

NoHaveMSG 01-25-2020 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload (Post 3293553)
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself
This doesn't use any special ram air intake now does it?

The Red One 01-25-2020 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph (Post 3293562)
The only complaints I always hear are lack of torque.
The car is perfect, other than the lack of torque.
I bought a 2019 because I thought they could be endangered and its long production run possibly be stopped.
This type of CHEAP, simple, NA, high rev, light, RWD car is getting to be unique with all the turbo, EV & hybrid SUV push of the market. Turbo & auto only were off my shopping list.
I for one like a responsive high rev motor.


I only notice some missing torque when im lazy and it's called character...
Need a bit of extra passing power: A well kept secret is to Downshift …

Every Car/SUV/Truck is not made to serve everybody and if so that would be boring!

KR-S 01-25-2020 04:30 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3293577)
This doesn't use any special ram air intake now does it?
Attachment 184299

Though in this case, 300 horsepower...

NoHaveMSG 01-25-2020 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KR-S 86 (Post 3293579)
Attachment 184299

Though in this case, 300 horsepower...
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJI9fNudnQ[/ame]

LOL Right. If there was a tuner making 300 crank HP NA, on E85 even. People would be fighting to get in line like it was the last Popeye's chicken sandwich.

KR-S 01-25-2020 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3293585)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJI9fNudnQ

LOL Right. If there was a tuner making 300 crank HP NA, on E85 even. People would be fighting to get in line like it was the last Popeye's chicken sandwich.
300 hp N/A Subaru boxer 4s do exist... though I highly doubt they were achieved with basic bolt-ons.

Broseph 01-25-2020 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3293575)
Ever heard of "economy of scale"? They sell vastly more variations of Imprezza's which effects the price/cost of all Imprezza models.

We talk about this all the time at work whenever sales get this idea to come out with a new model. They get a :slap: and are shown the numbers, and how many of this new model they would have to sell to cover just the development cost. Then they go back to hiding in their hole.

I'd like to see an actual WRX at an actual dealership with a 28K sticker. Just because the SOA website shows the WRX starting there, doesn't mean dealers actually order them spec'd that way. Current model year too, not old new stock carry over.
What better way to have economies of scale than use an existing, proven power plant?
They’re already committing to a brand new, ground-up platform. They threw economies of scale out the window when they made that decision.

I live next the worlds biggest Subaru dealer. They have tons of WRX trims all the time. From bare-bones base models to loaded Limiteds.

Broseph 01-25-2020 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload (Post 3293553)
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����
No. This makes no sense. Modding / tuning N/A 4-bangers is an uphill battle. No way they’re getting that with just a tune.

Tcoat 01-25-2020 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload (Post 3293553)
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����
Links?
It would be a shock to many if even one word of this was accurate.

NoHaveMSG 01-25-2020 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KR-S 86 (Post 3293586)
300 hp N/A Subaru boxer 4s do exist... though I highly doubt they were achieved with basic bolt-ons.


Yeah I remember there was a shop trying to get their GC8 up there. We haven’t seen an FA do it yet though.

weederr33 01-25-2020 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph (Post 3293541)
Admittedly, this is more a problem for high-altitude folks, less-so for the sea-level folks.
So, selfishly, yeah we'd all like more usable power up here. That's what you do up here when you want power - go FI. I'd prefer to have that from the factory. And while the M2Comp and Supra are great cars - driven both extensively, I'm trying to go a different direction this time with more of a more raw/mechanical experience vs a more luxury coupe.

Already have done the modded, tuned, catless, RWD 6MT BMW Twin Turbo Coupe thing. It was fun, I'd like something with a little less heft, bulk and mechanical complexity which I think is totally doable with a factory turbo'd BRZ.
You claim you have a modded and tuned BMW, why not get a BRZ and then turbo or supercharge it like many others have before? O_o

Sapphireho 01-25-2020 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload (Post 3293553)
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����
Only January and already have the front runner for "Stupidest post of the year".

KR-S 01-25-2020 05:05 PM
The dude making the 300 hp claim is from New York... wonder if he pulled his info from Mike Cina.


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