Please explain Lane Departure Warning to me
 

I cannot think of a situation where such a "safety" feature is superior to good driving habits. That is, being aware of where one's car is on the road and watching where one is going. I'm guessing its benefit is allowing one to read, watch a movie or text for longer while barreling down the freeway.


Risk compensation anybody?

The theory is crash prevention. The reality is we need a system- wide reset at full level 5 autonomy, but due to a number issues everywhere, it's just not fully feasible.

From the socioeconomic aspects of forcing everyone to abandon their cars and buy new ones, as well as the aspect of who really owns what-do we really need to own the vehicle anymore if it's just a pod? And if not, do we really need as many different brands of pod that currently exist?

There's also a number of legal hurdles currently dealing with "the trolley problem" of computer systems making life and death decisions.

By giving people level 2, 3, or 4 autonomy, automakers entirely sidestep all of the above problems, while also making the driver the responsible party, all while claiming 'progress' at the expense of driver engagement.

I'm not fully convinced i will see level 5 autonomy within my lifespan, simply due to the legal hurdles that are currently solved by making the driver the responsible party.

Ex: if a single 15 year old GM level 5 car has a software glitch and drives through a school, GM would be on the hook for significant damages. Multiply that risk by GM producing hundreds of thousands vehicles every year, and that is a huge liability. This is a scenario where i could more realistically see mfg's making vehicles a subscription or lease format, where vehicle ownership goes away so the mfg has better risk mitigation by only using 1-2 year old models throughout their available fleet.

I thought it just beeped if you went out of your lane?

I discovered lane assist from this clip. Go to 8.00. I have no idea how other cars with lane assist behave.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utrpyyaUWtg[/ame]

Some do, others don't depending on manufacturer, model and trim level within models. AFAIK, none are considered fully autonomous except possibly Tesla and Toyota for example goes to great pains to make it clear in the fine print to not call them for failing to drive safely and attentively.

Toyota has Lane Departure Alert either with or without Steering Assist that reads visible lane markers, provides visual and audible alerts and steering force when lane departure is detected.

Toyota also has Lane Tracing Assist that works about the same when Dynamic Radar Cruise Control is engaged and shakes the steering wheel too.

Friends who have one of the Toyota systems hate them, saying it induces constant weaving even on a straight, flat Interstate and is worse on curvy mountain roads.

The sensitivity can be adjusted and disabled completely but I wonder how long before drivers leaving the pavement and crashing will be blamed for not having all safety nannies engaged?

Like soundman98 in effect said and I agree, the biggest hurdle to autonomous deployment in the US (when it's ready for prime time) is lawyers. Anyone and everyone will pay.

That's not just lane assist, that is almost autonomous for a few seconds.

In reality they are using their current cars to beta test all these functions, while using them to jack up current car prices. The only good one is adaptive cruise control, because it actually provides a useful benefit. The rest are just a waste of weight and money.

Recently, I took a long drive in heavy rain and wind in a 2019 Honda Ridgline with all the lane keeping, radar cruise, etc. activated. The vehicle is quite happy to drive itself on the highway for 30-40 seconds before the algorithms decide that you have to take the wheel. Strong, gusty winds that require constant corrections in an analog vehicle aren't even noticed as the system reacts faster than I could. Momentary hydroplaning resulted in some beeping and a slight slowdown as the cruise kicked off. I was very impressed with the complete system. However...
The vehicle has no soul. IMO, an autonomous or semi-autonomous vehicle is like a robot dog. Sure it will do all the things a bio dog will do with speed and efficiency but it never tug on its leash or piss on your floor or chase the neighbours cat. I think that is what is so special about our cars and others like them. It shits on your lawn, chews up your shoes and scares the mailman but just when you have had enough, it is waiting there by the door, happy puppy, ready to see what is around the next bend.

It isn't a replacement to good driving habits. It is however an effective way of dealing with those that do not have those habits. It is a sad commentary to say that such things are needed but this is the real world and far too many people have bad habits and no interest in correcting them so the auto makers have to address it.
The whole safety systems built into new cars (lane departure, blind spot monitoring, collision avoidance, etc) are just there because so many actually need such prompts. I remember all the old guys freaking out when antilock brakes came out since "people don't need the car to control braking if they just followed at the right distance".
An argument could be made that some of the features are actually sort of handy even if you are paying attention. I LOVE the adaptive cruise in the wife's car for long trips even though I am still watching the road. The back up movement sensor and blind spot monitoring are also great assists to even a conscientious driver. The one thing that I can not stand and leads me to call the Subaru Eyesight system (and the other makes equivalent) the "Distracted Driving" package is that stupid bloody beep that tells you the car in front has started to move from a stop! The ONLY purpose it can possibly serve is if you are busy doing something else when stopped in traffic and are paying so little attention to what is going on you need to be told when traffic is moving again.

It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though. The more we don't have to pay attention the less we will, driving to where we eventually need systems where we don't have to pay attention at all.

Even GPS is an example of that. I catch myself no longer paying much attention to street signs, etc when going somewhere and the GPS is on. I just blindly drive straight until the GPS tells me otherwise. I used to have much more directional awareness when driving.

That said, within my own family I know several people that would be much safer in a close-to autonomous car.

Oh no doubt! Unfortunately for those of us that enjoy the act of driving the vast majority of the public does not share that pleasure. To those people that consider driving a chore these things are just another tool to be used to lighten the burden. People on forums such as this will never understand that perspective any more than the drivers that would rather have the car do all the work would understand ours.

All these nannies are looking more political than practical to me. Somewhere along the line product planners might have decided that this stuff will be mandated so let's get ahead of the curve and out-autonomy the other brands.

That could be an ad for dating sites vs. sex dolls.


And some insufferable Tesla cultists like my attorney take it to another level since he says he generates income consulting with clients while "driving".

Although there are certainly some politics behind them as I said before it is likely that 80% to 90% of the drivers out there actually WANT and enjoy these things. I must confess that I wouldn't mind a couple of the features myself. As long as I can turn them on and off depending on the driving I am doing! When (not if) they become mandatory and can not be turned off is when we know we have reached the true political aspect.

I'm with you and fight the urge to let the car make decisions for me. Well, maybe a couple, the same features you like, (blind spot monitor, rear cross traffic alert with braking, dynamic radar cruise control, all things I used to mock) but now rely on.

@Dadhawk is spot on, my biggest concern is that my situational awareness may decline.

Toyota CEO Jim Lentz said during an interview earlier this year that Toyota won't be going full autonomous in the US over liability concerns.

The NTSB has started a few studies of lack of driver situational awareness. For drivers that learn with the assists.
The argument is either: should learn with out, or need more to help more.
Parents generally want more to keep their children safe.

I'm genuinely curious about whether buyers want those features or they're being pushed onto them to partly justify sky-high MSRP's?

I know that some Toyota dealers now have tech experts separate from the sales staff who spend on average 1-2 hours at delivery explaining the new nannies that buyer's didn't even know their vehicles had.

They don't know about many nannies because they don't have the Imeadiate impact of easing the burden that the Distracted Driving Packages have.
I don't want to be "that guy" but you will have to take my word that the public is demanding even more things that make driving "easier" for them. I have to sit through a 4 hour presentation every 1/4 and this is what they talk about for about 3 hours of it. The demand is there but I can not share the info and data to show it.


Here is a small (released) tidbit to chew on.


https://press.zf.com/press/en/releas...ease_6848.html


As far as pushing prices up goes the Eyesight system in my wife's Impreza cost her an extra $800. I doubt they made much money at that price since the stuff is expensive.

I have to wonder though if its not $800 for the "final mile" pieces. I would imagine a lot of the "infrastructure" for it is built into every car, even those that don't have it. Similar to how a lot of cars have wiring harnesses that have plugs for things you didn't get because it's easier to have one and spread the cost over all cars.

Oh I would be surprised if it wasn't built in all of them. That would be peanuts in cost though. I think that the 17 MY was the last where there was an upcharge for the systems from Subaru. Have never looked but am pretty sure they are just included with the cars now. At least the higher trim levels.

Those study outcomes will be important.

One example of unexpected consequences is a Car Control course run in the auto-x area of the local track, PIR. I've taken it a couple of times and thought it would help new drivers. The opposite was true.

According to an Oregon State University study that I can't find, CC graduates had a higher accident rate than non CC grads. The study concluded that the CC course created overconfidence in young drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

So discounting for helicopter parents, maybe the NTSB will find reasons to include them in most production vehicles, the direction Toyota took with the latest Toyota Safety Sense v.2.0 system that's included at no cost in many 2020's.

https://www.toyota.com/safety-sense/animation/drcc

most people are shit drivers, glad they're able to buy tools so I don't get crashed into as often

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that wiring harnesses were built to match a specific car. Having loose plugs is a safety hazard and therefore not something that is allowed.

That may be, I can't say I'm an expert on wiring harnesses, it has just always been my impression that for things like fog lights and other "add ons" that may be done by the dealership the plugs were already provided. I have nothing to back that up.

Some these features are amazingly useful. My mother has a Lincoln SUV, and it has cameras covering 360º on the outside, so you can use them to make sure the behemoth is in the parking space or to make sure I don't mistakenly drive over my car when pulling it into their driveway. That's something I wouldn't mind having in most cars. Even our car it would be nice to not have to worry about smashing into those stupid parking concrete pieces every time.

Not to mention there is a time for enjoying a drive, but it is not when you have a commute through traffic and who knows what else. Commuting 30 minutes or more through rush hour is not something anyone enjoys. There is a reason I made sure I could walk to work.

That's 100% not true. In fact a lot of these modern cars have all the plugs for every option you can get for them worldwide. So things like automatically folding mirrors is simple plug and play. And in my last car, the Yaris, they even had the bodies built so that any car could have the Japan only awd system simply attached without major modifications. Everything was already present for it to bolt right up.

None of these plugs are "loose." The wiring is tied down every few inches or so in all of these cars. The only place our cars have any wires that are even remotely loose are in the headliner. I had to buy zip ties after I took mine out to keep those wires restrained.

Yea, I'd pay the extra for that feature in just about any car, but particularly larger ones like my Suburban.

I guess I'm an exception to this rule. I've commuted between 45 minutes to an hour one way pretty much my entire career. I actually like it. It gives me a decent separation between work and home in my mind, time to decompress or get ready for the day. For about two years I lived within walking distance of work and it drove me nuts. I felt like there was no buffer.

Thanks for the confirmation on this. I thought it was the case but didn't have any reliable proof.

At least soon there will be fully auto cars for people who can't drive. Of course the shittiest drivers probably can't afford them anyway LOL. The elderly might be able to, but that EBT queen in the left lane doing 45 with her crappy little SUV... not so much.

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If they rush it too soon, we'll just be trading people who can't drive but have some sense of self preservation for cars that can drive in 90% of conditions but are oblivious the other 10% of the time. I think I'll stick with the people.

That 2021 ZF coPILOT system is impressive. Hopefully they include a permanent opt out for data collection and distribution. Incidentally, Toyota does offer opt out on their latest Entune system but requires a trip to the dealer.

I bought NVDA stock yesterday thinking it will exceed the former peak from miner sales with the ZF rollout.

Short ZF demo from your link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRw0...ature=youtu.be

I don't get that at all. But I don't need a buffer. I hate all humanity equally, and I have to deal with the general public all day unfortunately. My buffer is me in my apartment wishing the entire human race would die off. Or maybe one day they'd magically all come to their senses and reorganize our entire civilization in a better way.

I've dealt with grid locked rush hour traffic, and it just stinks. I've also dealt with 2 hour commutes one way, and it doesn't matter how fun the drive is, it is just brutal doing it day after day.

As it is now, I'm 2 minutes from work if it is snowing or raining and I need to drive, or if I'm running late or being lazy. I can walk there in under 10 minutes. And I can take a nice quick 15 minute drive into the middle of absolute nowhere for some driving entertainment. The only downside for me is my last commute I could literally see my workplace from out my apartment window.

lol


My vote, get rid of all the stay-in-your-lane beeps and nannies. But add a deafening alarm/siren/electical shock if the light turns green and you continue to sit there looking at your phone.

Oh i get it, like I said I'm the oddball out on this one. I've said before I probably should have been a long haul trucker, I just love being behind the wheel (or yoke, or handebars) of a vehicle.

I commuted 40 miles a day in DC traffic, about 40% of the time on my Honda GL650 for 4 years. Loved every minute of it.

"Hey CoPilot, take me to my favorite place."

"Screw that dude, we're going to the race track, I'm tired of this cruising the highway stuff"

Now that is when we have reached full autonomy in a car.

I was thinking the same! It would probably hound me for braking too early.

Whoa, I just got back from DC and don't recall any motos there or Arlington. You're brave but OTOH lots of DC drivers come from countries where motos are more common and may look out for them. J/K, my Lyft drivers were either homicidal or suicidal, tough to tell which.

Buy a MT as I believe this will place you in a unique environment where all drivers will keep their distance, see you as a "special" being.

I've emailed Australasian New Car Assessment Program with my question. Given they're the authority who looks after car safety performance in Australia I am looking forward to their reply. I am guessing it's going to be political in nature.
I'll let you know when I get their response.

As an aside I like the blind spot monitoring in the new Corolla, just a little yellow light in the side view mirror. A fairly unobtrusive assist for every day.

Studies have shown that the average person does not possess enough multitasking skills to be able to drive, yet we allow them to anyway. Auto manufactures are under continual pressure to make vehicles safe for the average drive.

Not sure I care what studies say, I mean scientifically bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly, but they don't seem to have any problem with it when they set their minds to it.

Helicopters don't follow the laws of aerodynamics, they just beat the air into submission.

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