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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39)
-   -   Dyno results: TRD intake + Millers Oil = 6hp MORE than K&N drop in/silicone tube (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137390)

prandelia 10-30-2019 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86MLR (Post 3269971)
How do they compare in relation to m2.

Pre 17 OEM = 0.193m2

17 + OEM = 0.77m2

I acknowledge that the 17+ housings/intake tube and design are slightly larger/different but it was the filter design that was the main reason for the greater surface area.

If I recall correctly the K&N surface area is smaller than the 17+ OEM filter, the media in the K&N allows for more flow though.

Im off to google

The TRD filter size and housing is WAY longer than the '17+ cars too. Plus, there are less bends to the throttle body from the airbox.

My car sits on a trailer, so I'll have to measure it sometime this weekend.

Blighty 03-06-2020 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86MLR (Post 3269988)
Math with oranges and apples for the win.

I couldn't help myself, I pulled my K&N for a look.

ORANGE = 2017 manual K&N airfilter (mine):

Size = 27 folds, fold height = 27mm therefore 1 fold = 54mm x 27 folds = 1.458m

Width of oiled section (not glue) = 0.1m

2017 K&N m2 = 0.145m2

So, smaller m2 than all OEM paper filters.

Assumptions:
OEM filter is paper and highly efficient at filtering, drawback is slight restriction due to this.

K&N filter is filter media is very thin and relys on oil to capture contaminates, thus less restrictive than OEM.

APPLE = TRD airfilter size?

The TRD media is a oil filter, but, is 4 ply.

Assumption: The TRD being a thicker media would be more restrictive than the K&N type.

Conclusion: could someone count the pleats and post up the dimensions of the TRD to compare against the m2 of all the other filters.

I acknowledge that the elephant in the room is the filter media, but, these comparisons are fun, and if a TRD intake filter is measurably better than a 17+ intake I might get a TRD intake.

As for the efficiency of the K&N, well it breaths effortlessly, but it only really stops rocks and leaves.
From my old eyes looking at a computer screen I counted 57 folds on that supersized TDR filter. If we assume its the same depth (27mm) then you are looking at lot of m2.

86MLR 03-06-2020 02:19 AM
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blighty (Post 3305862)
From my old eyes looking at a computer screen I counted 57 folds on that supersized TDR filter. If we assume its the same depth (27mm) then you are looking at lot of m2.
Which one?

Cotton has 15

K&N style has 34

Need dimensions of width, length and height to work out area.

Mute point as my 2017 OEM airbox with a K&N filter is not showing up as an restriction, even running a little AVO turvo.

It also wasn't showing as a restriction with the OEM paper filter when NA tuned, it did have a Mishimoto intake tube though, more to aid in a clean removal the noise tube than for performance.

For what it's worth, the TRD intake looks only slightly smaller than the OEM intake on a R33 GTR, which can flow 500hp all day.

And as the TRD intake on the twins is only ever going to flow around 200hp, I would say the size is overkill.

Yes there are variables, but in the end if there isn't a restriction, a bigger box or filter is not required.

A high flow filter in the OEM airbox is all that is required for unrestricted flow and ease of maintenance, as long as you are comfortable with the less efficient filtration of a high flow filter.

Marketing may disagree with me.

Blighty 03-06-2020 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86MLR (Post 3305874)
Which one?

Cotton has 15

K&N style has 34

Need dimensions of width, length and height to work out area.

Mute point as my 2017 OEM airbox with a K&N filter is not showing up as an restriction, even running a little AVO turvo.

It also wasn't showing as a restriction with the OEM paper filter when NA tuned, it did have a Mishimoto intake tube though, more to aid in a clean removal the noise tube than for performance.

For what it's worth, the TRD intake looks only slightly smaller than the OEM intake on a R33 GTR, which can flow 500hp all day.

And as the TRD intake on the twins is only ever going to flow around 200hp, I would say the size is overkill.

Yes there are variables, but in the end if there isn't a restriction, a bigger box or filter is not required.

A high flow filter in the OEM airbox is all that is required for unrestricted flow and ease of maintenance, as long as you are comfortable with the less efficient filtration of a high flow filter.

Marketing may disagree with me.
I think you're looking at the drop in filters for the stock 13+ and 17+ models.

The one we are talking about is from the TRD Intake pictured here.

https://www.ft86motorsports.com/pub/...tr03-18130.jpg

Its huge.

86MLR 03-06-2020 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blighty (Post 3305891)
I think you're looking at the drop in filters for the stock 13+ and 17+ models.

The one we are talking about is from the TRD Intake pictured here.

https://www.ft86motorsports.com/pub/...tr03-18130.jpg

Its huge.
Yeah, opps

That thing is huge

Massive bling overkill IMO

Meh, consumers will consume

Blighty 03-06-2020 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86MLR (Post 3305896)
Yeah, opps

That thing is huge

Massive bling overkill IMO

Meh, consumers will consume
I think the OP (@prandelia) was pleased with its increase over the typical cheapo set-up after tuning, and by the looks they have built as a proper NA trackcar.

Which is no surprise really - to have almost identical maf readings with significantly less airflow resistance, should mean that not only should tuning be a little easier, but the many stock ecu maps looked-up by its built in learning software will naturally make the car more likely to avoid knocks without pulling back too much power, making the tuner changes able to go a little higher.

In theory anyway - I'm no master tuner.

But yeah its not like the value you get out of headers, which not only can give some really good top end, but have absolutely massive low/mid gains.

Summerwolf 03-06-2020 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86MLR (Post 3305896)
Yeah, opps

That thing is huge

Massive bling overkill IMO

Meh, consumers will consume
Bling? It looks like a factory airbox.

I got one for a good price and it definitely cleans up the look of the engine bay and deletes all the sound tubing. It wouldn't be my first suggestion for mods, but it's one of the few intakes with a good track record and it doesn't void any warranty.

AutoNewb 03-06-2020 09:57 AM
How is Millers oil a variable for power? I dont see it being a variable. The only thing high quality oils do are retain viscosity, lower oil pressures/temps, and better lubrication so there is no metal on metal action. I don't see how that applies to making more power.

86TOYO2k17 03-06-2020 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNewb (Post 3305961)
How is Millers oil a variable for power? I dont see it being a variable. The only thing high quality oils do are retain viscosity, lower oil pressures/temps, and better lubrication so there is no metal on metal action. I don't see how that applies to making more power.
Maybe just listed as a "disclaimer" to record all the variables changing between before and after. although he never stated temperature and humidity.

But yeah it shouldn't make a difference, if anything a heavier weight oil would probably decrease HP at least until it got some temperature in it to get a good flowing viscosity.

also curious if that was K/N drop in no tune vs TRD w/ tune or both on same tune?

Regardless its obviously much larger intake/filter size so it should have the potential to flow more air, whether or not the stock NA engine can utilize that increase in airflow is another question.

PulsarBeeerz 03-06-2020 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 (Post 3305964)

also curious if that was K/N drop in no tune vs TRD w/ tune or both on same tune?

Regardless its obviously much larger intake/filter size so it should have the potential to flow more air, whether or not the stock NA engine can utilize that increase in airflow is another question.
He mentioned both setups were dyno tuned on the same dyno in the first post.

86TOYO2k17 03-06-2020 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz (Post 3305974)
He mentioned both setups were dyno tuned on the same dyno in the first post.
Missed that parts, Thanks.

Lantanafrs2 03-06-2020 11:56 AM
Good info. OP was generous to post it

nikitopo 11-11-2021 12:34 AM
It just changes the AFR. A proper tune can do the same w/o changing the intake box.

jflogerzi 11-13-2021 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitopo (Post 3480399)
It just changes the AFR. A proper tune can do the same w/o changing the intake box.
Yup just probably allowing the AFR to lean out just a bit... thus more HP up top.


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