Racing, Reckless Driving, Super Speeder.
 

So yesterday me and my girl were going to Publix to get dinner and my lunch for the week. I’m going up a divided highway, and the right lane is full and everyone is driving under the speed limit. The left lane is open so that’s the path I took. I was going at the time 60ish. The speed limit is 60. This red charger gets behind and starts to ride my ass. So I give in and go a bit faster as he was making me and my girl uncomfortable with how close he was riding. When we get to a point where he can go around me a cop on the other side of the highway is going over a hill. And comes into line of sight. At that point I was going 70-75 no faster than 80 miles an hour though. He immediately blips his lights and busts a u turn. I figured he was going to pull over the Charger. I had slowed back down to the speed limit at that point so I kept on driving but he hit his siren so I pulled over behind the Charger. As the cop pulls up to me the Charger takes off. The cop does nothing. Gets out of his car and asks for my license. When he comes back I’m getting arrested for Reckless driving, going 32 over the speed limit, and racing. None of which was I doing, as my girl flips out if I do anything fun in the car with her. He got another officer to “try to find the Charger.” But that never happened. I bailed out last night. So now I’m scrambling to figure out what I can do. Lawyers are expensive. I do know how radar works though. I’m 100% positive he hit the Charger who was definitely going that fast and because I pulled over and the Charger got away he said I was going that fast. Since the Charger is bigger than my car and sped around me that’s gotta be what the radar hit. Also I’m thinking that they can’t technically charge me with racing if I don’t have a co-defendant. Then there’s the big grey blanket term of reckless driving. Like what do I do about that? The guy was riding my ass. I tried to explain it to this guy and he wasn’t hearing it. Just hauled me to the jail and I sat there for about 4 hours before my girl bonded me out. So any advice? Any one else been in this situation? Also I live in Georgia. This shit sucks.


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Dude that fucking sucks bro sorry to hear you’re in this shitty situation. Must be so frustrating. Luckily never been in that situation so I don’t know what I would do. I mean you have your girl as a witness at least. Do you have a dash cam or something where you can maybe find the Charger’s plates or show that you really weren’t going that fast? You could try to ask for them to show their police footage and the radar information stuff. Lawyer would be your best bet, honestly. Wish you the best man. Also, be careful of what you post on the matter. They can get you for any little thing

Well I don’t have social media except for Instagram and with my legal name not being affiliated with this forum I doubt they’re going to pull anything. But it just sucks all around. And no I don’t have a dash cam. And I don’t really know how to file a discovery for that information. I definitely need to get a lawyer it’s just the matter of coming up with the money.


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See if there is any Pro Bono representation available through the court system. They're better than nothing.

Show up to court, dress nice (at a minimum slacks, belt, and button down shirt), be polite and proper, minimize slang, tell the whole truth that's relevant to the incident, agree to traffic school and eat the speeding ticket and pray they drop the reckless and racing charges.

Lesson learned, keep your cool, slot into the slower traffic when an asshole shows up behind you or just ride it out and slow down even more to make sure you don't have to jam on the brakes and get rear ended, 'Defensive Driving' used to be a common phrase.

Good luck buddy.

^ what he said.

humfrz

That’s true. Like I said, not really an expert on the legal stuff, but just throwing out ideas on how to get evidence. I think @strat61caster is right on this one. Just take the ticket and fight the reckless driving and street racing which hopefully won’t be TOO hard. Best of luck

He busted a U-turn? Was the Officer driving? Did he actually even have you on RADAR/LIDAR? Some systems can work while they are moving but sometimes they just make stuff up too. Do you have a RADAR and/or LIDAR detector? Was it going nuts or dead quiet? Does it say on the ticket the method used to determine your speed? Did you admit to the Officer you were speeding? Did you give a specific number? I mean you could have been doing 65 in a 60 in a fast looking car or maybe not even 60! Now if he nailed you with a LIDAR gun that takes a picture of your plate doing 86 mph you're in a different situation. If you don't know the other guy and weren't driving competitively than obviously you weren't racing and/or being reckless which is why I think maybe the Officer may be using the "shotgun" method where they throw the book at you and see what sticks.

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Any businesses along the path this happened? Maybe they caught something with outside security cams. This whole situation makes me comforted in knowing I just bought a dash cam just last week.
Going forward, you know what your next purchase is now at least. The camera would have been all you needed to walk away clean from this.

If you think you can handle it yourself represent yourself. Don't walk into the courtroom without being fully ready. They give you an allotted time until court time and extra time if you ask/needed.

I have done so for a red light ticket and won. Not only didn't get the ticket but got them to actually change the timing in the lights because I contacted the DOT engineers who built the road and the yellow light timing
wasn't long enough for the grade of the road leading up to the light. In other words I didn't go in there not know what to expect. I caught them with their pants down, didn't get a ticket and made them all looks like idiots in the process.
I also did the same with my custody battle 20 years ago. My boy's Mom had a lawyer, I didn't, and I made everybody including and especially Mom look like an idiot in there because I came in prepared like I was going to war.

Lawyers get paid good to make stuff like this go away. If you don't have money maybe borrow some from a friend/relative if the cost to defend you properly is less than the cost if you're found guilty. That cost if guilty is the fine for the ticket and reckless driving and also the big one your insurance rates going up A LOT. If your unsure of being able to make that judge see how you aren't guilty, lawyer up.

Edit: Just realized you said the Charger took off as the cop came up. If that cop was running his dash camera properly and when those lights come on it should be, then he actually might have the footage you need to
show your side of the story to the judge. If you have a decent record and with that on film and your passenger backing your story, it already sounds not too bad.

I got a ticket for racing once when I was literally all alone. I was at a red light in the left hand turning lane. The light turns green and I accelerate briskly but not all out and when a reached 40mph (the speed limit) I stopped accelerating. Turns out there was a cop at the same intersection that saw me take off and pull me over for “racing”. I ask him who I was racing and he said there doesn’t have to be another party. I didn’t even get a speeding ticket because I wasn’t even speeding. The cop was a douche bag too telling me about how his 95 Mustang GT would smoke my ricer car. At the time I was in an Integra GS-R that ran a 14.2 1/4mi and would most likely smoke his GT unless it was modded. I just ignored him.

So you say super speeded fine and Publix. Must live in south GA. I got a super speeder fine there once when headed up to Savannah. Kind of ridiculous to tack on another $200 on time of an already ridiculously expensive ticket.

Good luck with your situation.

The ticket says vasqar and radar but then he highlighted radar. And I asked to see the gun but he didn’t show me but he supposedly “recalibrated” it 1 minute before the offense. It sounds like he’s trying to fuck me. Unfortunately in the state of Georgia I could be looking at jail time.


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Mcdonough/Hampton area.


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Also I did say that I couldn’t have been going more than 80 to the cop.


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And there’s no cameras on the highway unfortunately the only thing that’s going to show anything is when he was passing on the opposite side of the highway and when he did his u turn and pulled us over.


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You've already been to prison.

Get a lawyer. Without one you're screwed.

You are going to have to sell your car. Unless you are a minor there is zero chance they are not going to yank your license for a long time unless you have an amazing lawyer.

There is a good chance that "Charger" behind you was a cop. They run schemes like that all the time.

That’s what my mom said too. She thinks it was a trap. I noticed also once I got blue lighted the red charger crept next to me in the median until I pulled over idk if they thought I was going to run? I thought they were pulling him over. This is all so confusing and stressful. Also, never been to prison. Been to jail. Prison is a different world. Never want to go there. Don’t want to go to jail either.


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I would love to see one officially documented "scheme" such as this. They can catch plenty of speeders without baiting people. Just the timing required to have the other car up to speed in traffic while the cruiser came from the other direction would be quite a feat to pull off.

The first thing that came to mind as reading his story was that the charger was a cop. I’ve see several stories of cops in unmarked cars riding ass trying to instigate a race. Seems borderline entrapment to me.

They aren’t looking for speeders they are looking for street racers. If they pull crap like this enough times and word gets around it will cut down on street racing.

Wouldn’t this be some form of entrapment though? Isn’t that illegal?


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Bullshit.
The cop came over a hill.
Saw two cars speeding and apparently racing.
Had a split second to make a decision.
Pulled over both.
One ran.
Cop called it in and stayed with the one he had.
No conspiracy, scheme or any other shady goings on.
It was just bad timing on How's part and now he needs to fight it. Get it knocked down to speeding and pay the fine.
Hell, he doesn't even know how fast he was actually going so maybe the 80 was right.


People need to rationalize such things to figure out why it wasn't their fault.
Everybody go ahead and make shit up based on absolutely no facts though. It seems to be the trend these days.

Technically, no. Giving someone the "opportunity" to break the law is not entrapment. It's a sting operation, but it's not illegal.

In this case the driver could have just maintained his (near) legal speed and pulled over in the right lane and let the Charger pass rather than speeding up.

There was no room in the right lane and as soon as there was an opening he cut off the other drivers and zoomed around me.


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Seems like it would be. I had something similar happen to me by a cop in a C300 with normal plate even with one of those rented covers over the plate. The light turned green and I took off like I normally would. He then guns it like I was trying to race (I wasn’t) and once he took off I then actually took off racing. Once I was clearly ahead I slowed back to the speed limit and he gets on my ass all aggressive. I take my exit and he follows. When we get to the light I see in my rearview that he is in a uniform and has a light on his dash. As soon as the light turns green and we turn on to the next road he turns on his light. I pull over and he gets out and starts yelling at me. I stay calm but he keeps threatening to take me to jail. He asks me what I think he should do. I calmly said, “do what ever you feel you to do”. He calmed down and told me to drive safely and halve a nice day.

A friend of mine is a cop and told me it was probably one of the narcotics guys because they drive impound cars all the time. So I got lucky I guess.

That’s fucked up.


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Well, in your case I seriously doubt the guy behind you was a cop. As @Tcoat said, the timing just would be near impossible. If it was a sting, likely the second cop car would have been ahead of you on the same side of the road and he would have waited for you to pass. Even with that, that's a lot of effort for one ticket.

Your best bet at this point is to lawyer up. You may be able to work through it yourself as others have suggested, but it will be tough. If I take your description as accurate it seems there area enough holes a lawyer should be able to get it reduced to something more reasonable.

That’s fucked up.


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Manufacturers should start making dash cams standard, which can optionally record speed too. It would make police, and other drivers more accountable for situations such as this. Maybe you were speeding but not to the assumed speed the police decide to say you were going.


You can use one of those X-copper type lawyers and see what they can do for you. A friend of mine many years ago used them multiple times in a single year and managed to save his license and car. I believe in his instance they told him not to go to court and let them take care of it for him.

He had one of the first cases back when Ontario's 50km over street racing law was just coming into effect. Along with a reckless driving charge and some other minors.

That can work both ways though. The police can seize the dash cam at the time of arrest. They will need to get a warrant to access the data on it but I doubt that would be difficult. If you use a dash cam you need to be bloody careful since it shows everything you do not just the good stuff. It isn't just the police and other drivers that need to be accountable. Maybe he was speeding MORE than the cop said. He isn't really sure since he said he was doing "70 maybe 75". He could have been doing 80 and just didn't realize it.

I’m 100% certain I wasn’t going 92mph I’m 100% certain that when he used his radar he picked up the fastest speed which was in fact the charger that sped around me. I also don’t drive carelessly with my girl in the car she gets nervous so I don’t do it. I wasn’t racing the guy and I don’t know how this can account as reckless driving as I was trying to get the charger to get off my ass. I get where you’re coming from. But I know what happened I was there. The reason I didn’t know how fast I was going is because the guy was on my ass and making me feel very uncomfortable.


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So update. I found a lawyer he wants $750 flat for his services. He wants me to go take a defensive driving course and possibly some community service. He says he’s going to try to reduce and or throw out the charges. He said if I wanted to take it to trial I’d have to pay him more but he could do it. What’s everyone’s opinion? He’s affordable for me compared to the other guy asking for $2500. The other guy however said he could most likely get the whole case thrown out. But this lawyer said he could keep me out of jail and keep me from getting my license suspended.


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I just did a quick Google search and topics like this come up:

https://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/...eeding-ticket/

https://applepaynelaw.com/3-reasons-...raffic-ticket/

http://classifieds.usatoday.com/blog...ticket-lawyer/

It sounds like you are unsure of yourself to self defend this one so get whoever you feel most comfortable with. If $2500 guy seems like he's confident that he makes it all go away and $750 guy seems unsure of himself, I'd be using $2500 guy.
The jail/prison thing seems unlikely unless you're a habitual offender so I'd be more worried about the long term of insurance going up if the reckless claim stays on your license. Speeding ticket will increase it too but everybody has a speeding
ticket and unless it's out of control getting them a lot, one isn't going to hurt that much.

Places I'd start for defending myself would be:

The tuning/maintenance of the radar gun(explanation link). Ask for literature provided by the manufacturer that explains how the device is properly used and maintained.
Ask the police department for maintenance records for the past six months to see if it was stored, maintained, and tuned properly.

Getting a copy of the cam footage from the police officer. If he tried a "dash cam footage magically is gone or wasn't on", that seems an easy win for you.

Ticket dismissal due to your good driving record.

Delay the court date. The longer time that goes by the less info the officer will remember and him not knowing small details will make you look that much better.

The officer issuing the ticket does not appear in court. Instant win for you but this is not what you rely on since it is a 50/50 this happens.

Are the signs for speed limit set up at the proper distances/places or any other small details that render the ticket or stop improper altogether. This is where a good lawyer will come in handy.

True, If loop recording is on then you have all the footage your memory card can hold at their disposal.

Most cams have a manual only save option if there was something specific you want saved. It makes sifting through footage easy versus going through 25 5 minute clips or however many your card holds.

I believe the Toyota certified dealer cam has the same features. Not 100% as I didn't investigate much after I saw the $500 price tag.

This one is a little iffy at best. Depending on the jurisdiction and the reason the officer isn't present, the court may just reschedule the case for a later date. They can do this as many as two or three times before they finally release the case with a judgement for the plaintiff. This is more likely to happen in more serious charges such as this than in a 10 over the speed limit trial.

Best $750 (or $2500) you'll ever spend. Their rates actually sound similar just one probably wants to go trial and the other is trying to avoid it. Either way it's going to cost $100/hr. It sounds to me like the Officer is bluffing big time but the system is made to back the state. A good lawyer can ask the right questions without you even having to go in there initially. If you go in trying to demand this and that the prosecutor is just going shrug it off and say I'll ask the questions here. From there you can only incriminate yourself with your unsurity even if you were going 61mph or 75 or whatever you said. The lawyer as 3rd party and legal council can cite why they have to produce X and Y because of such and so law and only devuldge what they want to (probably nothing at first) especially since they weren't even there when it happened. Faced with going to trial and trying to explain how he was shooting a lazer gun while driving or just guessing your speed they will probably give you a sweet deal maybe not even a moving violation. Most modern guns take a picture of the plate and show the speed they will be happy to shove it in your face if they really have it. Even if they do have a printout from it that's calibrated that they just didn't show you at the scene, your lawyer is better at describing what a great citizen you are, why you don't need to be removed from society over some other driver, and what you can do to make up for it instead that's proactive instead of fines/jail. A misdemeanor is trial by jury, an infraction is only a judge. They want to settle. Especially if they have only your own word against you. Next time don't loose the race (just kidding), and if you do never say your speed. If they have to ask its because they don't know.

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Agreed with this 100%

Bad decision on your part for keep speeding up. Just being honest. You have no proof on your side right now backing up your story.



I've had some road rage issues against aggressive drivers (such as this charger) and have had done some stupid stuff. Its best to keep calm and just go back into the slow lane with the rest of the traffic.

As for a lawyer, it is what it is man. Take out a personal loan for $10k to start and get the best one you can find that specializes in traffic tickets.

PS: Dont drive in NJ if you have road rage too. Worst/ most aggressive drivers I've ever seen in my life. You'll just make really bad decisions based on how they drive.

The police have used moving radar for about 20 years now. The detector is mounted to the car and has a second antenna that measures and deducts the cruisers speed. The officer does not need to aim the gun and the measurements are valid and legal. This is not new and I have been pulled over based on the moving radar measurements a couple of times.

I've never had this kind of problem, nor do I live in Georgia, but doesn't the cop have to provide actual evidence to bring criminal charges against OP? Did I miss something or has there not been any evidence presented? If it is un-aimed radar, shouldn't he have to prove it was you specifically?

That evidence would not have to be released until court proceeding have been started. They do not have to provide any evidence at all at the time of arrest. This is where even a moderately decent lawyer would get involved since he will know exactly how to gain access to the State's case and evidence.


Some good stuff on the radar here: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...hapter6-1.html


Pulling You Over as Part of a Group of Cars. In situations where several cars proceed over the speed limit, some especially zealous officers will take a radar reading on the “lead” vehicle and then pull it over, along with one or two followers. In court, the officer will try to use the reading for the first vehicle as the speed for everyone else. The officer may even be up front about this, saying that he or she saw the vehicles behind following at the same speed. (“There was no change in bumper-to-bumper distances”.) Or the officer may even claim to have also used the radar unit to measure the speed of second and/or third cars. (“When they passed through the beam, there was no change in the reading.”) Either way, this is shaky evidence. To be really accurate, the officer would have had to simultaneously note the lead car’s reading while also keeping a close eye on the other cars. (This is something that is especially hard to do if the officer’s car was also in motion.) If the driver of the second car can truthfully testify as to how the lead car was going faster and increasing the distance, it should be a big help to establish reasonable doubt in court. And the use of radar to measure the cars is also problematic, since by doing so the officer admits several cars were close together and that he or she was trying to measure all their speeds almost simultaneously. Here are some possible defenses: (1) If you were the driver of the lead car, you may be able to claim that the officer inadvertently locked onto a higher reading of the second or third vehicles that were gaining on you. If the second or third vehicles were larger than yours, the chances of a false reading on your car go up, because the larger vehicle will reflect a stronger signal. In this situation it may help the driver of the lead car if he or she can truthfully testify to seeing (in the rear or side mirror) the second vehicle quickly gaining from behind and suggest that the radar reading was really for that vehicle. (2) If you were the driver of one of the vehicles behind the lead car, the vehicles in front of you may have been traveling faster (as lead vehicles often do). If that vehicle was larger than yours, or closer to the officer’s vehicle, this would result in that vehicle’s reflected radar signal being stronger. You could argue here that the radar unit read the speed of the car ahead of you, not your slower speed.

This all sounds like a series of unfortunate events, OP. Hopefully you can get things sorted, best of luck!