86 is more fun than a Supra
 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJQo0tZ5Jmg[/ame]

Saw this video yesterday. Thought as much, but I'm sure it will depend on the driver. like your typical highway pull roll racer will probably prefer the car with twice the HP/TQ. Anyone who wants to whip their car around at high rpm without being forced to change gears will prefer the car 600 lbs less.

More fun than* a Supra

I agree with above though. I'm sure the Supra is a lot of fun accelerating, but you're at speed so quickly. Slow cars you get to go balls-out for a longer amount of time :burnrubber:

^ I came in here just to post that too lol.

I can't justify the cost of a supra with the life I live.


So, the FR-S is way more fun for me. I have been enjoying it for almost 7 years now! I can still remember how excited I was to buy/own it at first. And, though the fresh newness has worn off; it still makes me smile when I see it in my driveway.

Main reasons in the video why 86/BRZ is better:
1. weight
2. steering
3. 6-speed manual
4. visibility

That one was an easy decision for any 'sporty' car comparison:

Manual > Any Auto no matter the price or HP, any day.

Maybe he is referring to a sequence of purchases. 86 exists ("is"), then more fun, then a Supra. Maybe he is going to have a party in between?

I've driven both 86 and Supra at the track and street. I don't claim 86 is more fun than a Supra. Cuz both cars are fun in their own areas.

Both cars have different goals in mind, when Tada-san was developed these cars.

86 is lightweight car that almost everyone can afford (without selling body parts) and enjoy driving. Yes, it's gutless, but that makes this car fun driving fast. For owner who wants sports car while having more useful space, don't want maintenance cost of sports car, want to learn how to drive RWD and like to modify your car then 86 is the one of the best options.

Supra is power car that not everyone can afford and do require several more days thinking to buy or not. Yes, it's not lightweight as 86, but Supra keep pushing you forward and forward everywhere. For owner who's looking to shave every tenth, hundredth of second around the track, don't care not having usable space and to remember what is to have crazy amount of torque to push you back on your seat while going fast through the corner, Supra is the car for you. I wouldn't say Supra isn't mod friendly, but it's gonna be hard to make it better than as is. Of course, it vary by owner's taste... but it's not cheap nor easy.

Which one I liked more? I liked both... BUT lightweight is a def weapon and I enjoy driving the 86. If Supra could shave another 200~300lbs (from stock), I def went with Supra though.

That's my 2yen.

So wait then is an 86 more fun than a Z4?


https://media.giphy.com/media/QhDNPv9wHl7Wg/giphy.gif

Was announced recently entry level Supra in Australia is $85000 plus on road cost so close to $90000.....That's drug money to me, if I had the money I will be buying a second hand GTR anyway, leave the Zupra for dust. On second thoughts I wouldn't ever buy a car that is over $50,000 that's just to much money to spend on a car, that's why the 86 is awesome. does not matter if the Supra is more fun then a 86 its price point is not fun for the majority of people on this planet.

Which GTR, the old Skyline GTR or the Nissan GTR.

You are buying a money pit if you think you can get a Nissan GTR for $90k.

If you are talking about Skyline GTR, standard they are old slow boats, most with rust, from being old, and high milage, for $90k you should be able to get a clean one though, you just need another $90k for repairs and maintenance if you want to actually use it.

You soon get sick of old cars that eat cash.

I hate the Zupra for personal reasons, but, they are a dead set bargain, you get a
alot of BMW for that money.

As for $50k being to much, I take it you never want to buy a "good" performance car in Australia, hell, a base STI costs over $50k.

In other news, original turbo manual Mk4 Supras are expensive as fuck now, even for a crap one.

Hell, I might buy one for my retirement present, maybe not.

Good summary.

I would add one thing (98% personal opinion). In it's price range the 86 has very few equals in terms of sports/performance cars. The Supra is in a price range where I could think it is well down the list of cars I would spend that much money on if I was so inclined to move to that level.

Plenty of good performance cars for under 50k that are 2-3 years old good kilometres as well. I love a bargain but i don't see how the Zupra is one if it started at 70 plus on road costs for a entry level okay that's a new car bargain considering the type of car it is. Would be good because in 2-3 years depreciation would hopefully have wiped out some of its value for us used car guys to snatch up. I had a look at car sales for some reason I thought the GTR's were sitting at 90k but only a few 2009 examples I stand corrected.

I could see myself buying a Supra. First a 86, than a Supra. :rolleyes:

I used to work for BMW in the eighties, when the brand stood for top German engineering. My first car was a 02 series and it sparked my car enthusiasm.
Sadly they lost their way and quality went downhill fast due to cost cutting and poor management.
I wouldn't touch one with a stick until now. I am hoping that Toyota has injected some reliability into the car and BMW some passion. Time will tell.

Then*

I don't really think reliability is a problem with BMW right now. I think it's more about their maintenance costs which still scare people.

I've had 2 newer BMW's in the past 4 years (traded in the last one for the new few months back, so more like one), and there has been 0 issues with the car. Being honest, the 86/BRZ is likely more unreliable than new BMW's.

** Denn :thumbup:

Excellent observation. Example: 2019 Corvette Stingray Coupe, 455 HP, 460 ft/lbs of torque, 7 speed manual transmission. 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. Base price $55,900 US. Of course, good luck finding a "base model".

Not that hard. I went to www.corvette.com and did a search for inventory. There are 16 new Corvettes within a 40 mile drive of my home that are under $60,000.

Tada-san did not develop the new Supra, Hans did. Supra is just another addition in the horsepower game. Look at it from a different lens, the new Supra has less power than a C63, not as practical as a M4, doesn't handle as well as a Cayman and costs way too much a Toyota badge. Sorry but I don't buy the idea of Toyota trying to get back into the sport car scene when they cheap out and use a BMW chassis and engine for what's supposedly their once halo car. All the while they invested in building the Lexus RC, NX? how "devoted" can he really be?

How are you comparing only small part of different cars?
Here are some basic specs on these to keep in mind if you gonna compare.

A90 Supra (base)
Price: $49,990
Overall Length: 172.5 inches
Curb Weight: 3,397 lbs
HP/TQ: 335HP/365TQ

AMG C63 Coupe
Price: $68,750
Overall Length: 187.1 inches
Curb Weight: 4,109 lbs
HP/TQ: 469HP/479TQ

M4 Coupe
Price: $69,150
Overall Length: 184.5 inches
Curb Weight: 3625 lbs
HP/TQ: 425HP/406TQ

Cayman Base (PDK)
Price: $60.110
Overall Length: 172.4 inches
Curb Weight: 3,010 lbs
HP/TQ: 300HP/280TQ

With that said, only one I see beating Supra in basic specs is Cayman... but even then, that's extra $10k more with less HP/TQ. Of course, I'm comparing with base model Supra. Even using Premium Supra ($53,990), base Cayman still cost $6k more. All other ones are gigantic boats!

Costing more than other Toyota? In Japan, Supra RZ cost 6,900,000 yen. Keep in mind, Supra isn't regular Toyota. It's GR Supra, so it's brand off GRMN model. If you look at GRMN brand cars, GR 86 cost (4,968,000 yen) that's more than base model Supra (4,900,000 yen).

TBH I can keep going at this number game... but reality is, number is one thing, feeling is another. Just like 86/BRZ, numbers doesn't justify all the driving feel.

For that price and with those looks, I would put my money on a RS3, brand prestige and at $56K (base), 174" long, 3,540lbs, 400bhp with a 3.5s 0 to 60mph and it will be faster than a Supra in dry, rain or snow. The Supra is just not a convincing case.
A lot of people buy Toyota knowing that they are giving up a bit of the edginess in European cars as a trade off for reliability, but unfortunately that is out the door with the BMW engine and tranny. And as I said, I am not convinced by the argument that we should thank Toyota for bringing back the Supra even if it is a rebadged BMW because it's not profitable to build coupes. How does Akio explain the investment they put in the Lexus LC500, RC, NX?
I love the 86/BRZ because it is truly something different and refreshing, Its selling point is that it is an agile, back to basic sports car. The Supra's selling point... its a Supra? see past that, it's really nothing original.
They are just using a legendary badge as a marketing ploy... the Toyota version of Police Academy 5....

^ a bit unfair especially if you are a fan of the twins because in many ways the whole project and results are pretty comparable...I'm not a fan of the partnership either but chassis wise think we have to respect what they were able to bring to the market as it is Cayman sized (shortest wheelbase among current hardtop RWD coupes) while being the simpler FR config. And while I dislike it being AT only, I don't think the ZF8 will be an issue as this has been proven across multiple brands & models..it is a torque converter after all..

B58 is the only real concern here but we have to assume Toyota is totally aware their reliability image is always on the line for their products so you have to think it has been tested and checked. If you look up reliability stats and discussion on forums, so far it looks to be pretty decent.

..and "costs" way too much with a Toyota badge? Bruh, this is much cheaper than even the cheapest MSRP ever offered on a MKIV...and think there plenty of Sequoias, Tundras and Land Cruisers that have even higher prices..

My three problems with the Supra are in order:
01. Why get the Supra over the Z4? Z4 has optional extra power and a convertible top

02. No Manual transmission for Supra (Z4 will likely get one before the Supra if at all)

03. Styling and fake vents on a car that expensive

My main question that you guys may be able to help me understand is:
Why would someone who likes that platform buy the Supra over the Z4 (let's pretend the Supra isn't the more ugly sister)?

I would choose a used first generation NSX with up to 50K miles for the same money over a Supra GR, without hesitation!

01. I specifically got the 86 (over other sports coupes) because it doesn't have a sunroof or convertible top. I would buy the Supra over the Z4 for this reason alone, even if prices were the same. If the Z4 had the hard top, and the Supra were the convertible, I'd buy the Z4.

02. That is the deal-breaker for me. But I would still not buy the Z4 for just the manual.

03. Styling & vents are things I can grow to love, even for $50K.. as long as I enjoy the drive. I was never a fan of the previous Supra look, and this one looks better than the MKIV to me.

I don't really care for the BMW badge. I don't hate them, but I've had Toyotas all my life and don't mind it's badge in my driveway over a BMW.

1. has enough power as is. Don't like convertibles.

2. Don't care.

3. The styling is nice. Show me another like it?

Looks, Toyota tuning and hard top trump.

Why are you comparing RS3 sedan with Supra coupe? If you wanna go with Audi, base S5 coupe is closest spec with Supra. Also you wanna get some spec correct. 0-60 is 3.9sec, not 3.5secs. Even orange to apple comparison, RS3 with extra hp & tq, can only get 0.1~0.2sec faster than Supra? BTW RS3 tran is AT (DQ) only and if you look it up, there's not much good thing have said bout it either... but that was my quick search. So in Audi comparison S5 only have 15hp more with extra 450lbs (3,847 lbs) and paying extra $3k for a base model isn't good comparison either.

Oh extra tip, Car and Driver dyno Supra and they got 338whp/427wtq. btw Toyota claim 335hp/365tq. But just take that as grain of salt.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...no-horsepower/

If you gonna compare, at least try to compare in same chassis... COUPE.

As for LC, RC & NX, it's different department (which I'm not expecting you to understand) plus LC & RC aren't really doing well. LC is new, so you might see ppl buying, but RC? Not really... No one want 4 ton sporty car as much as you think. This is why, they're bringing those limited edi, but reality is, they're not doing much R&T test as much on those. NX? Just a trend we live in. Even Lamborghini is making crossovers, because that's where the market is atm.

You love 86/BRZ, but not the Supra...? 86/BRZ is something different? Oh it's different alright. Lack power compare to Mustang Camaro or 370Z. Slower than 124. Not light as Miata or Elise. No functional back seat like Challenger. Low CoG? Yeah... Vette is lower. There's nothing "new" about 86/BRZ just same on things that have done by all other manufacturers have done. Even Subaru! Hell, I can buy base WRX cheaper than BRZ Limited PP. Base WRX, I can get extra functional backseat with TURBO and can smoke 86/BRZ on road, rain, snow or at the track. See what I did there. On the paper, 86/BRZ is "different" in bad ways... but when you drive it, 86/BRZ is "different" in a good way. 86/BRZ have done same thing all other have done, but did something different that selective owner will understand and love. I've stated this in my review of new Supra, but BMW and previous Supra branding truly bug you, don't look further than this. Cuz this isn't the car for you. Only selective owner will have HUGE SMILE on their face driving the new Supra.

01. Coupe vs Vert is ppl's preference. As for extra power, it's def questionable... BUT good news, Car and Driver did dyno test and they got 338whp/427wtq. Tons more tq than Toyota claim.

2. TBH if BMW do MT, Toyota will bring MT at the same time... or earlier than BMW.

3. As for fake vents, he didn't put it there only for daily drivers. They made it for racing teams and shops that uses Supra for racing.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PKbpN9DtSc[/ame]


Your main question why choose coupe over vert... I can say the same thing. Why ppl choose vert over coupe? Why do you want soft that can rip, losses chassis rigidity, add extra weight and more breaking parts. Answer is simple. PREFERENCE. I rather have coupe and I would never own vert.

Supra GR suffers from car leprecy!

Now for something completely different

I understand that one reason GR cars are silly expensive is because they get them from the factory in basic form and they modify them afterwards in a GRMN garage shop. There was a comparison lately of GR 86 with BRZ STI sport and Keiichi Tsuchiya said that the BRZ was better choice if you consider also the lower cost. Reason was that Subaru managed to create this model variant directly in the factory line without doing any after modifications.

Recently? You mean this one from March of last year?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06784ZZF_2[/ame]

GR86 & BRZ STI Sports have 2 separate focus in mind. GR86 focus on track vs BRZ STI Sports focus on all around like city & canyon. Suspension stroke is different, less strokes from GR86 compared to BRZ STI Sports. Brake is another factor. GR86 brake grab instantly vs BRZ STI Sports requires more pressure to get more grab. As a result, they both drive differently.
GR86 ran 1’18” around the lap vs BRZ STI Sports did 1’20”.
He stated that, if you’re looking for daily and all around drive, BRZ STI Sports. If you’re looking for track and shave time GR86. He didn’t specifically stated BRZ STI Sports was better. It's up to owner's preference and what owner looking from the car.