"Underpowered"... compared to...?
 

I'm fascinated by the reviews that conclude that the 86 is a "great car, despite being underpowered".

I'm curious as to what other cars they're comparing it to?

Compared to a $60,000+ car

:search:

I suspect that they are referring to hot hatches such as the Focus ST, GTI, Megane RS, etc...

WRX, golf GTI, etc even the veloster turbo
anything else aroung same price with a turbo really...

There is a lot of fast cars in the $20k bracket nowadays than there was in the 90's.

everything? i remember in the late 90s and early 2000s, 200hp was a lot, now 200hp is the low-end power standard.

And the 86 is better than them all :D

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It is a bit under-powered for it's price range from a HP/TQ stand point. I don't think a lot of reviews are taking into account that this car is basically going to be modded by every single owner. Toyota/Subaru took that into account when building the car to keep things at the 25K mark. The Veloster, Golf, and etc are all pretty usable DD cars with a semi-real back seat, so they will pick up more sales from those features alone. The average consumer how wants decent power and general usability. Granted they cannot take the "mod" factor into account so that is why they shove that line in there, and rightfully so.

The FR-S / BRZ gathers the enthusiasts who care about one thing, "fun" and this car delivers that. It's not the worlds best DD, but it works, and it's not the worlds best track car, but it is a cheap and fun car that looks to be easy to mod and going to be a blast behind the wheel no matter what.

We pay for the chassis and rwd, they pay for a turbo unit.

You can't have both for $25k.

^^^^^what he said


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Standards change. Today, you have brands like Volvo and Cadillac that used to be considered 'old peoples' cars that make sporty models that can rip off a sub-7 second 0-60 time easily and top out at 150+mph. The truly affordable fast cars can do 0-60 in 5 - 6 seconds and burn the tires to the rims.
Then you have the FR-S/BRZ which looks like it should be able do these things, but cannot.
Still, it's a great package at this price point. But, most folks want it all and don't want to have to pay for it.
It's like the people that always bitch about how things are "...not built as good as they were in the old days...". Well things are, you just don't find quality stuff at Wal-Mart (which is where those types of people shop).
You want it all? Pay the price and STFU.

Plus, if the FR-S/BRZ did have another 100 hp or so, then reviewers and other people would be bitching about how much noise it makes or the poor fuel economy, etc. There's always going to be some weak point that will get exploited. I had a guy at work criticizing my car because the back seats were useless and he wouldn't buy one because of that. I told him to buy a school bus and then he would have plenty of back seat room. I also told him to STFU.

yeah, you can expect only so much from a $25K car, but at least give buyers the option of a more powerful version. i'm sure a lot of us would be willing to shell out another $3K for a turbo version with 260hp-ish. sure owners can mod these cars via aftermarket FI, but why not capitalize on this market in the first place by selling a higher model factory FI version that will be under factory warranty?

Well really if Toyota/Subaru designed it right they shouldn't have an issue with fuel economy changing much, I mean if Ford can put a 305hp V6 in a less aerodynamic car that weighs about 700 pounds more and still get 29mpg highway then there's reason Toyota/Subaru shouldn't be able to still get 29-30 with a 260hp+ turbo model, though honestly the current fuel economy for the manual is pretty poor given the size/weight/aerodynamics of the car and the power of the engine.

Either way though Toyota/Subaru really should of went a little more aggressive with NA tuning on the 86 and got it into the 225-230hp range, even that relatively small jump would make a very noticeable difference in performance in such a light car and there would probably be a lot less complaints about it being underpowered.

I don't think the GT86 is underpowered. I feel it is a bit under-torqued. But all you need is a few aftermarket bolt-ons to liven the car up a bit. And someone like myself would rip out the back seat and stock battery, ect.