Daily Driving on real 200 tread wear tires
 

Who daily drives on there track tires? I am planning on picking up some 17x8s and getting RS4's or Vr1 tires for track days. When I had a miata I drove to the track a few hours away on my track tires and rims. With the 86 I am thinking I should swap tires at the track each day.

How many people daily drive on tires like RS4s or other true 200 treadwear tires? How much performance/heat cycles do you lose doing this?

The car was at its peak when I was driving on the Falken Azenis RT 615-K+ tires. 225/35/R17. There was not a single downside, turn in was much better, grip of course was great, no wheel slip under fast shifting from high RPM.

I would imagine that the downside is that daily driving gives you more potential places to slam pot holes and cause broken cords/belts. Other than that, I think only your usage and mileage can determine how much tire use you'll lose from daily driving on your track tires. I had 18,000 miles on my Azenis with a few autocross events, the edges were getting smooth but they still drove and performed fine. Probably could've gotten another 10k out of them. Tire pressure has as much to do with this as anything else

I really think it's more tire dependent than TW. I'm on RT615K+ right now and selected them after doing a lot of reading on the chumpcar and lemons forums and seeing people getting good wear out of them without cycling out too easily. The older non-plus version seemed to have a bad wrap though because they would overheat real easy. In the past I ran a bunch of sets of the various generations of the Dunlop Z1, Z1 SS, ZII, ect ect and also liked them because they seemed to grip until the day they were on cords. I don't track my cars very often but go through phases where I autox regularly but if I was seriously committed to autox or track days I would for sure just get a dedicated set of tires for the track.

I had RS4s. It's great for grip and all. For me it sucked though, I'd prefer to not daily my track tires and preserve the grip for when I'm racing. Also, wet driving isn't as fun. If it were me I'd probably just do a separate set of wheels for track only and continental DWS06 all seasons and call it a day.

I had a set of Falken 615k+ that heat cycled a little early that might have been caused by leaving them on the car all summer (I'm a teacher and I wasn't really driving anywhere but it's Texas and it gets hot).

If I'm driving less than 400mi between trackdays I often don't bother changing my RS4's or Falken 615k+. I don't do the same with my RE71r's, I'll leave those on if I'm driving 150-200mi between events but even then I try not to.

I wouldn't call 200 a track tyre, summer performance tyre for the street, yes, and you can track with them, but there are much better options out there.

Alot of manufacturers have tyres with a semi-slick tyre tread, but not the soft compound. 120 and down.

Don't run real semi'slicks on the street though, the need heat and won't last long.

I'm currently running Hankook RS4 which are a good compromise, Potenza are aldo a good compromise, and both are cheap to replace.

Dunlop DZ03G on the other hand are real semi-slicks which I have used and are brilliant, but, they need heat.

The difference on track between a 200 and 100 tyre is night and day.

But a 100 tyre on the street is rubbish when its cold.

Swapping at the track seems like the way to go just curious to see what everyone is doing. First part of the season in Ohio gets very raining so the 200 tread range tires help a lot with that, my local track is Mid Ohio very tricky in the rain. I would like to try RC1s maybe after I burn through the set I get for the first part of the year.

Except for the handful of 200TW tires that are faster than any 100TW r-comp... ;)

Maxspeed, last track day I drove 250 each way from home to track. Personally I am planning not to swap tires (Falken 615k+) any longer, did it in the past, seems not worth it
As 86 MLR says, it is a 200 tire, not a sticky race compound.
Just in case, I am traveling with 2 spares, both spares can “complete” the track week end.

Ack

Your times, and your pocket will agree that swapping your 200's for some soft R comps when required is the best option.

Plus you can keep the tyre weight down as a smaller R comp will out perform a larger "200 street tyre".

A few years ago I won a set of R comp tyres for some event, the tyres available were 235, I put them on a set of R34 GTT rims, 17 x 7.5, first session out I PB'd.

IIRC the tyres that were on the car usually were 265 Z1 star specs, (cheap as chips through tirerack, expensive as hell here), good tyre that held up well to the 1500kg, but really only a street/khana tyre.

Point of note is the R comps I won were old stock, a few years old, and they absolutely smoked the new Z1's.

Which ones are they, what conditions do they like and what sizes?

If I could find a 200 that out performs a 100 I would seriously look at them to replace my current RS4's which are at 50%.

bfgoodrich sport comp2 gets my vote. thats a ton of tire for the price

340? I must be looking at the wrong tyre
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tires.j...6&autoModClar=

Tirerack doesn't really rate them well

I am happy to be schooled IRT this

I dailyed, tracked, and autocrossed Z2SS in 2015 iirc and would do it again. They lasted about a year and I should have junked them at ~15k miles (they only saw 3 track events, maybe 8 autoxes and I was not pushing them to their limit) but stretched them to 19k and they were showing cords.

imho it depends on alignment and how frequently you track, I think I was at about -3° camber up front with the Z2S at the end, if I was going much past that I'd think twice about dailying them, but if you do enough track time the daily miles won't be a blip on the scale for how they wear. Right now I'm DD-ing Firestones because I'm not bothering to change alignment between autox events at -4°-ish of camber so having the ~340TW cheapo tire take a beating is fine.

As for livability, it's fine imho, yes louder, yes lower fuel economy, I drive to the event with my RE71R's on, still good for ~130-150 autox runs and a few thousand street miles. Try it out, you won't kill RS4's or VR1's by putting a few hundred street miles on them (as long as your alignment isn't terrible). For me if I wasn't going to the track more than once a month, swap 'em out and save 'em. Swapping tires back and forth 1x per month isn't too much trouble for me but I got tired of doing it at 7am after driving for an hour or two to an event.

Try it all out, drive their on your street tires, track tires in the trunk, swap, drive home on the track tires, change 'em back to the street tires when you feel like it.

Edit: @86MLR Bridgestone RE71R and BFGoodrich Rival S 1.5 are assumed by most people stateside to be faster over a single lap than any other 200TW tire, they're designed for autocross and 40s-60s runs not sustained lapping like the RS4, Z3, etc. I've never tracked the Bridgestones but from what I've heard they overheat pretty quick and you spend your session managing heat in the tire. The BFG's are likely the same.

Last year I did 22 track days and 20 autox events. I used 2 full sets of Falken 615k+ and about 25% wear on a set of RS4's at the track and 6 full tires and another 25% wear on another set of RE71r's (I ran a set of sticker RE71r's in January at a 2 day track weekend and wore the passenger side tires to the wear bars).

My second set of Falkens stayed on the car their whole life (just a couple of months, they lasted about 8 trackdays and saw fewer than 5k street miles before they heat cycled out), they didn't last as long as my first set of Falkens which lasted for 10 trackdays and fewer than 2500 street miles. The RE71r's typically see less than 2k miles in their lives and last for an average of 100-150 runs depending on the venue and weather.

The RE71r's can keep up with 100tw tires like the Nitto NT01 for a couple of laps (the stones heat up faster and are good to go after half a lap in nearly any conditions, but by the 4th or 5th hot lap they are greasy and times fall off substantially). The stones like low pressures at autox, but if you run them low at the track (under 30psi hot) they wear very quickly (that's how I ruined half a set during a 45F degree day).

If I've only got a week between events (my commute is 12mi round trip), I don't feel bad leaving either the RE71r's or the Hankook RS4/Falken Azenis 615k+ on the car. 2 weeks is a coin toss depending on the weather and how beat I am after the event. I almost always put the tires I'm going to run on the night before (the farthest I drive to the track is 70mi) but I might change them at the track depending on the circumstances.

The RS4's and 615k+ are great track tires and are very consistent. They are slightly slower than the re71r's on the track (significantly slower at an autox), but they are close enough that a fast driver can keep up or outpace a lesser driver on the stickier options. My current set of RS4's are on pace to last more than 12 trackdays, and I paid about $600 including shipping and installation for the set. I might be giving up 1-1.5s to some NT01's but in similar sizes the Nittos are at least $100 more and I'd be surprised if they lasted half as long.

I'm on Yokohama AD08R's and have no problem even in the wet.

You can do it. I did it back in my MR2 days when I was autox every weekend for a year.

BUT.... you going to need to buy a pair of tires every couple of months. They just wear out faster and they put a bit of stress on suspension, only because you drive it to the limit cause you can.

At the end of the year I had 3 sets of tires and new outer tie rods and ball joints. But it was a year long weekends autox and track time. So... that could have done them in.

Eventually my wallet made the decision to just swap out tires at events.
Eh it's your call. Your money.

You’ll have no problem living with Maxxis RC-1s on the street in warmer weather, and they’re an absolute blast because of the grip they offer. You won’t heat cycle them out on the street so they’ll last a long, long time, and unlike many semi-slicks they do just fine running below their ideal operating temperature. They’re friendly to drive on when cool and break away progressively when pushed, so they won’t bite you - and they’re very quiet compared to most R-Comps. You can definitely get a faster track day tire, but the RC-1 has its place in the market and it will seriously transform your car when driven on the street - so much so, you’ll probably never want to go back to regular tire.

They do have their limitations:

• It’s a dry weather tire (duh...), but it does just fine in damp conditions as long as there’s no standing water. If you get caught in the rain, slow down (again, duh...) and tiptoe home or to where you can park the car until the storm blows over. Driving on damp pavement without standing water is really not that big a deal at all.
  
• You will need coilovers or significantly firmer springs and dampers to run them. I’m on MCS 1WNR single adjustable coilovers with 8K Swifts all around, and I think they’re about perfect for me.
  
• You can’t drive on the tire below about 45° and grip falls off steeply below about 55°, so it’s a late spring, summer, and early fall tire - no biggie, it just is what it is. If you do push the car on the street in cooler weather it can be a lot of fun, but only because the grip is reduced and the car will finally break free powering through corners again.

Alright, I get it - they’re not for everyone, but I say go for it. I’ve got two seasons on mine, and I’ve never regretted my decision to run them on the street. Our cars are really fun on low grip tires where they can move around through the corners, and they’re also a totally different kind of fun when pulling close to 1.5g’s. You really need to experience both extremes to fully appreciate just how great these little cars can be. Just saying...

My typical weekend is 300 street miles, I have 3 tracks within an hour from my house. Probably not worth the hassle of swapping them at the track but I will switch to the stock tires during the week. ABS will be nice my miata it was always risky on flat spotting a tire and then having to drive home on that.

Looks like camber bolts won't get me great camber numbers on the stock suspension but will hold me over until I get some coilovers. I have the 2017 suspension with RCE springs.
@RJasonKlein RC1 was going to be the next tire for my miata but I switched to the 86. Everyone I have talked to really likes them.

I picked up some gloc r12 brake pads to run on the non pp calipers. Whats a typical lifespan on track pads 8-10 days? Coming from a miata I am use to getting an entire season out of pads but I know this is not the case on the 86.

r12's should last 10-12 trackdays, possibly more (depends on the track and your driving style but my pads outlast my tires even at brake intensive tracks). I upgraded to the AP Sprint kit and the pads are cheaper, thicker, and keep cooler so they wear better than stock. If you do 10 or more trackdays a year you'll end up saving money on the kit in the long run.

wow - what a contrast in experience.

I just had a convo 3 days ago with a Lemons driver who has 10 years in the series. He said they were going through 3 sets of the Falkens PER RACE WEEKEND.

They switched to 200TW Hankook RS4s at the end of last season. 1 set lasted the ENTIRE WEEKEND. And was faster. Everywhere. Always.

I don't like daily driving on any of the 200TW tires, especially the super 200s like the RE-71 or Rival-S. They are noisy, not that great in colder temps and they do heat cycle out after a while. I much prefer to throw on my stock wheels with a set of SX2, Continental Extreme Contact Sports or even the factory Michelins.

What car? That makes a big difference. If you're on a FWD oversteering pig of a car (VW, Mini, Etc...) then you're going to run into issues.

The twin is a good platform and easyish on tires. As others have said, the Falkens are not the better rain tire for the TW zone you're looking at. IMHO there's no better wet tire than a Conti DW (Or the newer ECS).

--kC

A late 1990's Civic