Clutch or Synchronizer Issue ?
 

I drive a 2014 Subie BRZ with 68K miles and I feel I may have 2 possible transmission issues, but these are not major issues at all. I can drive my car perfectly fine on a daily bases, these are more so pet peeves. Now this is my first manual car and I'm not sure if this is completely normal but shifting gears isnt all that smooth at times. I dont expect it to be perfect but sometimes going in to low gears like 1, 2 & 3 I get this click that just doesnt feel right and when it happens it requires a little bit more force than a normal smooth shift. And I'm sure that the clutch is engaged completely. I feel this can be an issue because after driving my friends wrx his shifting feels like butter heaven and makes every shift feel so swift. Onto the second pet peeve. Now I'm not sure how the previous owner who put in 66K into her treated the car but someone told me my synchronizer might be messed up. This happens quite rarely but some mornings when I start to drive i have trouble getting into 1st gear. I will attempt to put it in 1st gear and it is completely blocked so what I'll have to do is engage the clutch, attempt to put it in 1st, it wont go in so I let i go back to neutral without disengaging the clutch and attempt again then it goes in smoothly. So it is possible but i just need an extra step or two. NOW weirdly I found a solution to this and that would be turning off my car and starting it again. After that it completely disappears. I come to the forum because I dont really know jack about transmissions so anything will help thank you!

Clutch or Synchronizer Issue ?
 

I drive a 2014 Subie BRZ with 68K miles and I feel I may have 2 possible transmission issues, but these are not major issues at all. I can drive my car perfectly fine on a daily bases, these are more so pet peeves. Now this is my first manual car and I'm not sure if this is completely normal but shifting gears isnt all that smooth at times. I dont expect it to be perfect but sometimes going in to low gears like 1, 2 & 3 I get this click that just doesnt feel right and when it happens it requires a little bit more force than a normal smooth shift. And I'm sure that the clutch is engaged completely. I feel this can be an issue because after driving my friends wrx his shifting feels like butter heaven and makes every shift feel so swift. Onto the second pet peeve. Now I'm not sure how the previous owner who put in 66K into her treated the car but someone told me my synchronizer might be messed up. This happens quite rarely but some mornings when I start to drive i have trouble getting into 1st gear. I will attempt to put it in 1st gear and it is completely blocked so what I'll have to do is engage the clutch, attempt to put it in 1st, it wont go in so I let i go back to neutral without disengaging the clutch and attempt again then it goes in smoothly. So it is possible but i just need an extra step or two. NOW weirdly I found a solution to this and that would be turning off my car and starting it again. After that it completely disappears. I come to the forum because I dont really know jack about transmissions so anything will help thank you!

This is normal with these. They don't like the cold and put up a bit of a fight. When it won't go into first when cold just go from neutral to second and then up to first. It is a totally different tranny from any other Subaru so comparisons are not possible. Some people report improvement with an tray oil change.

I wonder if it's not the case of slight clutch drag. How low is clutch bite point? Do you have some dead pedal travel before it? If you are stationary on flat ground, put in gear, clutch pressed, adding some gas .. car doesn't try to move slightly?
P.S.
instead of restarting engine, you may try while clutch still pressed to first put in 2nd and then in 1st again in one motion, until you feel like it's been normal gear switch in. That won't fix possible issues you may have though.

This is normal with these. They don't like the cold and put up a bit of a fight. When it won't go into first when cold just go from neutral to second and then up to first. It is a totally different tranny from any other Subaru so comparisons are not possible. Some people report improvement with an tranny oil change.

ahh okay that would make sense thank you !

There is piles of info on it here if you dig around a bit. Some think it is the end of the world but most just accept it as the byproduct of a tranny designed with low tolerances.

Welcome to noisy/notchy entry level sports car! They make noises, they have quirks, but the 86 is a damn good car. You'll learn to love it lol. Tcoat is right though.

when i start to get moving with the gear in 1st i definitely have to let the clutch go a lot, i’d say about 40%, so i’m not sure if that is normal but i do feel my clutch could be starting to slowly die on me cause on some cold early mornings my clutch slips after a gear change. i will have my foot completely of the clutch and i get a bit and can hear a throbbing acceleration even though i am keeping my foot on the gas at a set position. and thank you for the advice i’ll take note of that althoughhh i wouldnt that lug the engine?

haha i totally understand i did my research big time before buying my dream first car. i love it the way it is and i dont expect perfection but just want to make sure that it couldnt be anything major

What lugging engine? If you keep clutch pressed, you can switch any gear you want, nothing should spin in gearbox with pressed in/disengaged clutch, no load on engine. But if there is some synchro issue, and "teeths" are not on right position, often, while still stationary, noticed that getting into other gear (2nd just seems fastest/closest/simplest) and then quickly back into 1st, may help with rarely but sometimes hard to get into first. It's not that i suggested start driving in 2nd, just botched put into 1st>quick 2nd>quick 1st, by feel this time ok>only now giving gas & start releasing pedal/engaging clutch & drive off.

you’re right my bad, i didnt read it corrctly and i thought he said start moving with second gear but i understand what he meant now thank you

So when I had my transmission rebuilt with my gear set, they timed the synchros and I never have the problem I used to with stock. So I wonder if someone gets their synchros timed on a stock set if it would remove the problem or not.

A few things....

There is always some risk buying a used car with manual transmission. Unless you know the previous owner really well and their driving habits, there is always a risk.

What oil does it have? When was the last time it was changed?

What speeds are you trying to upshift/downshift at?

You don't need to answer me these questions. Just something to consider for yourself. When it comes to fluids, most of the times, just sticking with the tried-and-testing OEM fluids is the safest way to go.

I was in a similar state of mind when i first bought my used 13 MT @ 69k miles. I just changed the fluids just so I know what is in there and how long its been in there. Fresh fluids definitely helped make shifts more consistent and I haven't been locked out of 1st since.

If someone charged you money to "time" your syncros, go back to them now and demand a refund because their is no such thing. Hahaha

I would say change your fluid to one that does better when cold but seeing where you are located I don't think cold is your problem, especially not this time of the year. I'm in Florida and year round mine slips right into gear. A common complaint on the IS300 tranny is cold shifting. I changed my IS300 to Honda MTF and it solved my cold shifting problems. But the FRS has been fine even on the OEM fluid.

I would verify that the clutch is fully disengaging. Jack the rear wheels off the ground, start the car, hold the clutch to the floor for 10secs to be sure the output shaft has fully spun down and then while still holding the clutch, put it in 1st. Have someone else watching the rear wheels to make sure they don't start turning when you put it in second. Remember, you are wanting to do this with the clutch to the floor. Obviously the wheels will turn if you're in gear with the clutch out. You can also do this test with the car on the ground but the clutch has to be really messed up to move the mass of the entire car while the clutch is pressed. So to be absolutely sure it's best to do it with the rears off the ground. The slightest drag will make shifting difficult.

They didn't charge me anything for it, it was part of their service. And I misspoke, it was synchro blueprinting, you can go talk to Jacks Transmissions @JacksTrans about it if you want.

https://www.jackstransmissions.com/p...o-blueprinting

how much did that cost? if this truly helped then i want to consider getting it done

well its whatever they charge for their service, I have no idea. You would have to call them. I had it done when they installed my PAR gearset, so what they charged me would be different than what they charge you.

I am having a similar issue to the OP, have changed fluid to Motul 300, but and becoming more convinced I may have some clutch drag. Can this also cause the shifter to get stuck in gear? Every few days my shifter will get stuck in either reverse or first, and will require a great deal of force to get it back to neutral. It also feels much notchier than normal to shift through gears.

After confirming by putting the rear wheels up in the air, how is a clutch drag issue resolved?

Thanks.

Yes clutch drag would make it hard to pull out of gear because it would put a little load on the gears. Clutch drag can be caused by a bunch of things. Most common would be air in the line due to a bad master or slave. Check your reservoir to make sure it hasn’t dropped. If it has dropped it will most likely also be a dark color. The darkness comes from the rubber seals in the master or slave deteriorating. If the fluid level is good and not dark it could still be air but probably not. Other issues could be the TOB not returning all the way. Could be a bent release fork. Could even be the pressure plate coming apart but that would typically cause lots of vibration.

Hmm, interesting. I bled the clutch when I changed the trans fluid a few weeks back. Fluid wasn't overly dark, but not as light colored as brand new fluid from what I can recall. I have a spec 2.5 clutch, and the forged fork, replaced TOB. Unsure. Are there any reasonably simple ways to further diagnose a master/slave seal issue?
Thanks for the info btw, appreciate it!

Did the problems start after the clutch or after bleeding? Another issue is the input shaft cover thing on the tranny gets messed up when the TOB goes bad and causes the TOB to not slide freely. I’m not sure if you replaced the TOB because it failed but if so this could be part of your problem.

One other way to see if your master is leaking is to get you hands on the shaft down by the clutch pedal and check for any fluid. When the seals go bad it will often leak down there.

Clutch was replaced in January when my TOB shit the bed in spectacular fashion. Issue wasn't noticed until ~1.5-2 months ago, so if it was TOB caused damage, I would have expected it to have started earlier.
Ah, good idea, I can check that for sure. Honestly, I may just replace the slave and the line going to the trans just as preventative maintenance. The issue isn't constant, and doesn't prevent me from dailying the car. Not a ton of money to help narrow down the problem.

I am having this same issue after the Toyota dealer changed our TOB on our 2018 GT. When the car is cold in the morning for the first few miles, 1st and 2nd are not good. Very notchy, and going into 2nd sometimes feels totally blocked but will ultimately let it in with a hard pull. It was NOT doing this before we brought it in.

But once warm, it shifts beautifully, all gears.

My current theory has been that the mechanic put some lube on the input shaft that is too sticky and causes the pressure plate to stay too close to the flywheel. Then once that lube warms up, it all flows better. I've also seen pictures on this site of the splines on the clutch disk getting bunged up when someone slammed in the transmission. That could cause issues - but I would expect those would not be heat dependent.

The dealer claims that they did not change the transmission fluid or touch the clutch hydraulics. I assume taking off the slave and letting it hang would not cause air to sneak in.

But, just in case, I can bleed it this weekend. I'm wondering does anyone have the measurement of the movement at the slave cylinder on a completely stock set up? I have the measurement of the pedal motion (110 - 115 mm at the pedal face). But nothing on the slave end. Does anyone have that?

Also, is anyone willing to measure the throw of the clutch slave when the clutch pedal is depressed? It would be interesting to know if ours is shorter than what others have.

And does anyone know if the factory workshop manual says the input shaft splines are supposed to be lubricated at all? And if so, with what? I know that some cars say no lube there.

I found the 2012 manual on this board. On page MT-40, it says that the input shaft splines should get Nichimoly TC5. Anyone have any idea what that is?

FWIW, in the 2013 FRS manual, it says to use "Toyota Genuine Clutch Grease or equivalent." And it says to put it on the splines only, and not the tube that the TOB rides on.

FYI, I got 15 mm travel at the top of the TOB lever arm where it sticks out of the top of the bell housing.

I will try to see if the dealer has any I can measure. I have a neighbor with one too. I might ask him.

I just measured another car's clutch slave, and it was the same 15 mm motion as we have. So the clutch is getting full travel, at least to the slave cylinder.

Does anyone know if there is a possibility that the replacement TOB that Toyota used is not exactly the same dimensions as what came in the car? So could they have grabbed an old stock, pre-update TOB? Could it not stick out as far? That would cause the clutch not to fully disengage. Anyone do this job and have them side by side to see if there was any such change?

Other than that, I'm still left with the possibility that the mechanic used the wrong lube or no lube. That is, on the input shaft causing the clutch disk to not pull all the way from the flywheel when it is cold.

On driving it more, it definitely does not go into 1st when rolling - when the car is cold. And it has a hard time going into 2nd. Though it seems 2nd is better if I go faster - of all things.