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People who just don't get it. This thread is for you!
"Great car, but needs more power"
"Great car, but cheap interior" "Great car, but slow 0-60 times" "It's slower than a mini-van!!" "It's slower than a Camry!!" "Feels like an economy car! Crappy head unit, meh interior, seats don't tilt, no steering wheel controls, no helpful gauges" These uninformed statements keep recurring, and we rehash. Let's have a thread that can be used as a reference, going forward. I am going to collect some old posts and add them here. Please contribute your salient postings. Exhibit #1 Does the 325hp BMW M235i need more power? Well, here is a BRZ against a blue BMW with 125 more HP. You can skip ahead to the 6:00 mark. What can you conclude? [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMZk5eXT2-0[/ame] How to tell if your car needs more HP 1) Go to track with your unmodded car 2) Use stopwatch and record a few lap times. 3) Have an instructor do a lap. 4) If your time is equal or faster, then add HP Otherwise, your car doesn’t need horsepower. It needs the driver mod. "Great car, but slow 0-60 times" Stop looking at 0-60 times. Those people have no clue what this car is about. They do not understand why BRZ is actually a very fast car. There is no escaping physics in terms of how fast this car can corner. Momentum = mass • velocity If you get beat off the line, you will fly past them as soon as the first bend in the road arrives. They will be braking while you are still on the gas. In the curves, the BRZ is one of the fastest cars out there. Few modern production cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ that weighs 2700 lbs. Bigger cars will fly into a ditch trying to keep up with a BRZ in the corners. I personally know guys posting faster lap times than people driving cars with twice the HP. And on the street, the extra power is even less useful If you think the word fast only means what happens when you press the gas pedal, you have a simple understanding of cars. Go to a track day, and a Lotus Elise is also one of the fastest cars out there. It has even less horsepower than a BRZ. Yet you don't hear silly people complain that it's slower than a minivan. The BRZ is very very fast, if you know how to drive a momentum car. The only performance upgrade you need are summer tires. People who can't pass in this car don't know how to drive a stick. "It's slower than a mini-van!!" I hear this nonsense constantly regurgitated on forums. You can't make up your own facts. The fastest minivan on record is the Sienna V6 SE, which has a 0-60 time of 7.1 seconds. BRZ has a 0-60 of 6.2 seconds. BRZ has a faster 0-60 than every minivan on the road. And it weighs half, so it will smoke any minivan in the turns, as well. So, let's please dispense with this minivan nonsense already! Minivans are not fast. Because data ! "It's slower than a Camry!!" OK, so the limited edition Camry V12 Hellcat TriTurbo is faster than a BRZ ? Therefore, all econoboxes are faster than a BRZ !! Wrong, a base Camry is heavier, has less power, and has a slower 0-60 Somewhere in Kentucky some guy strapped a jet turbine engine onto a tricycle.... Therefore all tricycles are faster than BRZ ? Econoboxes are not fast. Because data ! "Cheap plastic interior. Needs more cup holders!" People who are stroking leather and discussing cup holders are not the target market of this car. The BRZ interior is perfect. Why? Because it's light and simple. Zero bullshit. I'll actually pay extra for manual seats. Power seats are annoying to repair This is what the inside of a real track race car looks like. https://not2grand.co.uk/wp-content/u...ortex.com_.jpg The BRZ has the most luxurious decked out interior in my fleet !!
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"Great car, but slow 0-60 times"
Stop looking at 0-60 times. Those people have no clue what this car is about. They do not understand why BRZ is actually a very fast car. There is no escaping physics in terms of how fast this car can corner. Momentum = mass • velocity If you get beat off the line, you will fly past them as soon as the first bend in the road arrives. They will be braking while you are still on the gas. In the curves, the BRZ is one of the fastest cars out there. Few modern production cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ that weighs 2700 lbs. Bigger cars will fly into a ditch trying to keep up with a BRZ in the corners. I personally know guys posting faster lap times than people driving cars with twice the HP. And on the street, the extra power is even less useful If you think the word fast only means what happens when you press the gas pedal, you have a simple understanding of cars. Go to a track day, and a Lotus Elise is also one of the fastest cars out there. It has even less horsepower than a BRZ. Yet you don't hear silly people complain that it's slower than a minivan. The BRZ is very very fast, if you know how to drive a momentum car. The only performance upgrade you need are summer tires. People who can't pass in this car don't know how to drive a stick. |
"It's slower than a mini-van!!"
I hear this nonsense constantly regurgitated on forums. You can't make up your own facts. The fastest minivan on record is the Sienna V6 SE, which has a 0-60 time of 7.1 seconds. BRZ has a 0-60 of 6.2 seconds. BRZ has a faster 0-60 than every minivan on the road. And it weighs half, so it will smoke any minivan in the turns, as well. So, let's please dispense with this minivan nonsense already! Minivans are not fast. Because data ! |
"It's slower than a Camry!!"
OK, so the limited edition Camry V12 Hellcat TriTurbo is faster than a BRZ ? Therefore, all econoboxes are faster than a BRZ !! Wrong, a base Camry is heavier, has less power, and has a slower 0-60 Somewhere in Kentucky some guy strapped a jet turbine engine onto a tricycle.... Therefore all tricycles are faster than BRZ ? Econoboxes are not fast. Because data ! |
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The fastest minivan on record is the Tesla X... |
"Cheap plastic interior. Needs more cup holders!"
People who are stroking leather and discussing cup holders are not the target market of this car. The BRZ interior is perfect. Why? Because it's light and simple. Zero bullshit. I'll actually pay extra for manual seats. Power seats are annoying to repair This is what the inside of a real track race car looks like. https://not2grand.co.uk/wp-content/u...ortex.com_.jpg The BRZ has the most luxurious decked out interior in my fleet !!
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Good post but you missed the real reason most of our cars are slow. It boils down to a poor steering wheel actuator. With the proper actuator almost any car can be fast.
https://youtu.be/5KiC03_wVjc |
I have already posted all these arguments about 10,000 times. Hang on while I go gather them all up.
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Are there more people out there besides myself who just don't care about speed? Especially speed measured from a dead stop. I just don't care. It's all relative. This car is faster and more reliable than everything I've owned in the past. I loved all of my old cars. This little Scion is just a natural progression from those. This car may as well be a 21st-century take on an early '70's Celica coupe. Those weren't fast by any stretch of the imagination.
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I'm missing the cuddly toy... |
The problem is relativity. A lot of people trash talking this car on forums have 600hp corvettes or 400whp STIs and of course to them this car is quite underwhelming. I went from a Cooper S to this, so it was more of a lateral move. While I do miss the "hyper puppy straining at the leash" nature of the Mini, the FWD and nothing above 4500 rpm were becoming tiresome, while the 86 transitions beautifully into oversteer on demand and gets happier the higher in the rev range you go. But then again, I don't know why those people are posting on the 86/BRZ forums. You don't see me posting on the Camaro forum saying "well I don't like the way it looks and the interior makes me gag". I just wouldn't waste the time. I don't gain anything. What they have to gain is superiority cause they're inherently insecure. If they see someone enjoying something, they'll do their best to ruin it. Which I really don't understand. If you have a 400-600 hp car, go enjoy it. Why are you telling others what to do. I just find it odd
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Yeah I should never have sold mine either. I used to have four first-generation Celicas but only the '74 GT Coupe was restored and modified. It really was one of a kind. I don't even have a photo of it now. It went to a nurse named Oscar in the San Francisco Bay area. |
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I don't know, I've owned alot of cars, 4, 6, 8 cylinder, and a couple of rotories.
The 86's engine is nothing special and the standard suspension is average, it is a massed produced cheap little sporty car. They do look good though, and if you drop some coin on upgraded suspension they can handle extremely well. But is it a fast car, hell no, unless you drop a ton of cash on it. To me they are the best looking econoboxes out there though, that's why I got one. If people can understand that then they will be happy. If people think or say they are a fast car on the street, they really haven't owned a fast car. I would call it a nippy little RWD, like a MX5. I believe, IMO, this is what a 86 is all about. If you want a fast street car you need something different or be willing to drop the purchase price on modifications. |
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair…
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People that say the car is slow clearly never been to a track or autocross before. Plenty of fast cars with low horsepower. Especially civics, miatas, and now the frs/brz twins
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:D humfrz |
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I've never heard this said before about this car, it's suspension is much better than anything else in it's class. After driving the ND miata I can say even the club feels like it has more roll than this. What specifically doesn't the suspension handle well in? |
Damn. You mad bro?
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Yes some care
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I am not a hoon. I give it an occasional squirt out on back roads or in the mountains. I have no wish under our rules to get caught going 140 kmh and Have my car impounded and then be written up in the local paper as the oldest hoon in the state. I know howc to drive fast. Owned a Brock group A Did not end up splattered all over country side in thousand pieces But I always remember the Bathurst solo who caught me accelerating past three semis at 160 kph and he chased me on his bmw racer caught me then as he wrote the ticket laughed and said I know its fast I know its safe But mate you cant drive at those speeds on publics roads. So the message here is not matter how good you think these frickin cars are you cant drive them like criminals. And if you do it only takes some citizen to post his dash cam in utube and you are stuffed. So grow up you guys or get onto the track and dont watch so much top gear. Even the canon ball run in our open limited state has been banned when some ****head slammed into and killed marshalls. And let us not forget old Peter Perfect Brockie and how he died. Do you think you or your car as as good as he was? |
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How old are macpherson struts? 1966? Or earlier? |
Interesting article in this month's Evo magazine (November 2018 edition).. Lotus Exige S2 v GT86. Nice write up that doesn't dirty either platform but respects both for what they are: 'Both the GT86 and the Exige appeal to the same sort of driver, perhaps different stages in their experience. The Toyota's approachable limits, safe balance and absolute usability make it a great entry level sports car, but to make it the car that many think it should be - or that you might eventually to want it to be - it requires some major tweaks. The Exige, meanwhile, is so right, so serious, so impressive straight out of the box.. it's a car that you need to graduate to, and be prepared to accept more compromises with - but the rewards will make it worthwhile.'
BTW: Same mag also has a write-up about outgoing Subaru WRX STI Final Edition. |
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Played with tyre pressures for ages, to no avail. My first upgrade was RS4 tyres, it was better but still not what I would call good. Again with the tyre pressures, no real joy. While I was researching handling options I got camber bolts because the OEM adjustability is non-existent, that is just a joke for a "sports car", actually I would say embarrassing. Camber bolts gave me -0.5° at the front, rear was, again, non-adjustable, -1.25°L and -1.75R. I ended up with MCA street performance coils and the MCA traction mod, the difference now is chalk and cheese. I was able to wind in some much needed front camber, the dampening and spring rates are great for the street and work brilliantly on tight twisty roads, running through the "Nasho" now is a treat, it just grips. I might expect more from a suspension package than most, years of motorsport taught me a thing or two about how a car is "meant" to handle, even for street duties, which, in the end, is where most of the miles are done, with no run off, or sand traps, just other cars, gutters, trees and innocent punters going about there day. Whilst my car handles so much better now, and I can carry so much more corner speed, it is also much more controllable and brakes better. Maybe if your punting along holding up traffic in the twisties you wouldn't find the limits of the OEM gear, but try and push, just a bit, and the limits are easily reached, you don't even need to push that hard for the arse to come out. As for saying to keep the momentum up, all good, BUT, you need a better than OEM handling package to not end up either sideways, or of the track, in the end, if you keep it straight and on the track you're going to be slow. Again, if you think the OEM car can handle well in these conditions I totally disagree, even with good rubber. Want proof, don't ask on the internet, go to your local track and see how they compare. Hell, I'm just a crazy old car hoon posting, no-one in their right mind should listen to what I say without doing their own sound experience based research. I suppose you could just ask the internet. We all know how well that works. |
People who just don't get it. This thread is for you!
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Current Porsche 911 suspension: http://image.superstreetonline.com/f...suspension.jpg Porsche Cayman rear suspension: https://caymanregister.org/images/FA...suspension.jpg McPhersons are just fine. When the suspension is designed to have little travel (like on a 911, or a BRZ), the benefits of double A-arms and multilink setups quickly fade away, especially in a small sports car where packaging is important. |
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Nothing wrong with an enthusiastic driver/wanting to tweak/adjust and up/down grade ones car. It's your car and you do what pleases you and your bank balance. All cars from all sorts of backgrounds have been raced or race cars turned into roads cars.. examples below:
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This guy had 2 GT86, a red one and a black one. The red one was his racecar. |
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Driver in BMW was checking his rear view and let the BRZ through, as you do when a quicker car/driver is reeling you in, could be another conclusion. But I don't know either driver, or their track experience, or their set up. I've been past many times by good drivers in cars with less performance than mine. I've also passed big dollar cars with a huge performance advantage driven by people with limited experience, or rich muppets without a clue. |
I researched the car here and test drove both a manual and auto before buying. I knew(know) what I was buying. Those that are poor buyers have only themselves to blame and then, for some reason, blame the car not themselves for what they are not happy with.
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The car is rather transparent. After you look at it, sit in it and take it for a test drive, what you have seen and felt is what you will get. No surprises later on. humfrz |
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I'm often surprised when people come out of the blue and start talking to me about my car, but in a judgey sort of way. They may ask a few questions, but then they eventually start quoting numbers and asking why I didn't buy this or that. Usually I correct them and say that I'm more in the seven-seconds-to-sixty range since I have the auto, but that I really wouldn't know anyway since I prefer to save my fuel and carry my speed through corners. It's funny because I never talk about my car. To me it's just a beautiful, livable little commuter car, with both compromises and redeeming qualities. It's just as you say. What you see is what you get. People who try to tell us we bought a stupid car are, in my opinion, generally over-estimating our cars based on what they've read. |
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It's been more than a day since you said you'd gather em all up - what's taking so long? Did you take your 86 to go pick them all up? Ahh, that would explain it - take your time then. :D |
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https://i2.wp.com/gifrific.com/wp-co...corn.gif?ssl=1 |
Econoboxes these days average 50 mpg.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120A using Tapatalk |
I always worry when someone is following me on curved on/off ramps. Especially if they were riding my ass before hand when the road was straight. Hope they know the limits of their car!
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