TRD Suspension Package and BRZ Performance Package
 

Hello,

Did a search didn’t find an answer.

Wanted to find out what the similarities and differences are with the TRD parts in this package compared to the parts contained in the optional performance package?

https://frsport.com/toyota-1445-fron...yABEgK18PD_BwE

Thanks

Background:
Buying a BRZ with PP and planned on lowering it with Eibach/TRD springs. Then I saw this overall TRD package and wondered if it was worth getting it (i.e. adding bushings, swaybars larger diameter?)

Can an admin move this thread to the suspension forum?
Thanks

On my performance pack brz I put the Tein street basis z coilovers. Can be had for under $500 and they ride better than the PP Sachs tuned shocks. There's already very little suspension travel on this platform, so a lowering springs makes it even worse. I know some have blown out their shocks with lowering springs too.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Appreciate you sharing, as I’m new to the FT86s.

Any idea if the PP swaybars are the same size as the TRD pkg swaybars?

I have the Eibach Pro-Kit springs on my BRZ, they are similar to the TRD. I think they fit great.

Thanks for chiming in, weederr.

By chance have you seen and driven both?

Does the Eibach Pro-Kit setup sit lower as the advertised drops indicate?

If you have driven both, any noticeable differences?
(I’d imagine not but still thought why not ask)

BTW, just looked at your build thread; wow- you’re car looks and sounds friiggin’ amazing!

Oh and nice reference to the RUF legend (yellowbird)

Thanks!! I'm glad you got the RUF reference.

I have owned both sets. On my previous FR-S, I had the TRD springs (although it was with the '13 shocks). I liked both. Not too harsh, imo, and also the right amount of drop without having to go to coilovers. They both sat around an inch. I haven't noticed much of a difference but never measured either.
Personally, I think the Sachs with the Eibachs are damn near perfect. Though if I were to suggest an alternative, I'd steer you towards the RCE yellows.

That’s just the kind of real world feedback I was looking for, thanks!

I was thinking the same (Eibach Prokit springs + Sachs would work well together).

My initial focus is going to be street/backroads driving with an occasional track or auto-x event.

Know where I can find out what the PP swaybars sizes are?

I liked the idea of that TRD suspension package (decent value) but didn’t know if the swaybars are the same sizes as what comes with the BRZ PP.

Thanks again weederr. :cheers:

No problem!

I don't know the size of the sway bars but I'm sure it can be found. I haven't bothered to change them since I daily my car and feel no need for larger bars.

Here’s the TRD specs for the sway bars...

Anti Sway Bars (PN# PTR11-18130)

20.6mm 4130 solid front sway bar
15.8mm 4130 solid rear sway bar

Anyone know the sway bar specs for the Subaru performance package?

So far unable to find the measurements for comparison.

Thanks!

I'm not really impressed wih the Sachs dampers, I acknowledge that compromises are made for the average buyer, but if you are looking at an OEM performance upgrade it needs to be better than the suspension in the PP.

@MrClean614

Front sway bar is 18mm
Rear sway bar is 15mm (+'17 model) 14mm (pre-'17 model)

Thanks nikitopo!

Taking my first roundabouts tonight, noticed the BRZ has some understeer dialed in from the factory to be safer but I’d like things to be more nuetral.

I remember seeing a YouTube review of the ‘13 FRS and BRZ which indicated the FRS was setup for more tail happiness when compared to the BRZ. That made me wonder if that TRD suspension setup would make the car more neutral?

Found it: https://youtu.be/uf-6rLVeR2o
EverydayDriver video from 5:30 on covers this.

Appreciate you chiming in to share this - helps align expectations. I’m going to attempt to make the Sachs dampeners work with some Eibach Pro Kit springs for now. Depending on how this goes and how much I get into tracking the car, probably consider Ohlins R&T coil overs.

:burnrubber:

Have a read IRT bump stops and suspension travel in the 86 platform.

Yes that is true. You can dial out the understeer with a bigger front sway bar. I have a set of sway bars from Laile Japan with a +1mm bigger front and a +1mm bigger rear with a 2 hole setting. This helps to change the softness depending your needs. They are new. The TRD ones look to me very large on the front. You don't want to go very large, especially if you are thinking to go in future with coilovers. Send me a PM if you are interested and I can create a relevant post to sell them.

In the past, I’ve done Eibach Pro Kit springs with success for my street driving objectives: reduce wheel well gap for better appearance, plus slightly higher spring rates that combine with a lower center of gravity for incrementally improved driving dynamics that work well with factory dampeners.

That said, I thought the TRD setup with Eibach sourced springs may accomplish these objectives, including the desire to dial in more neutral handling toward the limit, while preserving the inherent fun of the factory setup.

TRD vs. PP specs for the sway bars...

Fronts: 20.6mm TRD vs. 18 mm for PP
Rears: 15.8mm TRD vs. 15 mm for PP

I see the TRD sway bars are slightly larger than the PP setup which answers my initial question. However, going to adjustable sway bars may be better in the long run.

Now I need to determine if it’s worth going with ala carte choices versus getting the TRD package deal.

Driving each would tell me what I need to know.

Anyone out there in Ohio that have done a spring and sway bar approach?

:D

IMO, if you are keeping the OEM dampers, I would go the springs first and see how that effects the handling characteristics, then if required look at bars.

As for swaybar, bigger isn't always better, and you rarely need to swap out front and back.

Me, I don't rate the Sachs dampers all that much, they are better than standard dampers, but not that much, I'm going for some good local coilovers, 6kg F, 4.5kg R with some well thought out dampening for my use.

Then, if required, I'll look at sway bars, either front or rear, adjustable, maybe bigger, maybe smaller, and only enough to give me my desired result.

There's lots of good info IRT finding the best setup with alignment, springs, dampers and bars, search through all the motorsport forums that focus on a RWD platform.

Tyre pressure play a big part as well.

You need to look at the whole package not one part of a package that has multiple parts.

An easy way to cheat is to go to your local track and see what the fast guys are using, generally the fast privateers generally only change out parts that are required to be changed.

As a fellow '17 PP driver, I think weederr is onto something with his recommendation. The Sachs dampers are a quality product and Subaru did thorough development with the suspension (including tires) as a whole. There's a lot of magic in this chassis that makes it worthwhile to go slowly changing it. Definitely a one thing at a time deal.

I understand wanting to drop the wheel gap, but I didn't see specific things you feel need correcting. Often understeer is related to tires as much as/more than suspension on a well-sorted car. I like the Primacies for their eagerness to oversteer with input, because to me "slow in fast out" is fun. But grippier tires will allow faster entry to turns. This is obvious when I leave my RS4s on the car for a few days after track days.

If you can't live without coilovers (for a street driven car, I think you can, but it's your car) don't get anything that costs $500. CSG developed a set of Teins with the company for our cars that are worth looking at and Ohlins Road & Track are great quality. But I'd still recommend wearing out a set of tires before you make any big changes.

Good luck when those dampers blow within a year. :popcorn:

Here's the optional optional performance package.

https://www.sti.jp/parts/imgs/parts/...365AS020_1.jpg

https://www.sti.jp/parts/imgs/parts/...250ZR000_1.jpg

https://www.sti.jp/parts/imgs/parts/...250AS000_1.jpg

https://www.sti.jp/parts/imgs/parts/...502AS020_1.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mI_DMX5V9..._brz_ts_08.jpg

https://www.sti.jp/parts/subarubrz_zc/

https://www.japanparts.com/

Can you share more details ??

I've been running Swift BRZ Sport springs (similar rates to Eibach Pro-kit) with factory dampers on my PP daily-driver. Have about 10k miles and 9 track days on them. No prob so far...

I think this supposed issue of stiffer lowering springs causing "blown shocks" is overstated a bit...

I would say that if you are going to run lowering springs and also plan to run camber plates, be very careful as some camber plates lose you a fair amount of bump travel due to positioning of a radial bearing below the spherical bearing. If you're planning on running camber plates, you might not want to lower the car more than 3/4" or so. I.e., RCE Yellows...

I have always felt that the knee jerk reaction to changing suspension in this car is due to the fact that it is indeed required in many other cars. If you are ricing out a Civic DX then yes the very first thing you have to do is get rid of the stock suspension since it is designed for day to day grocery getting not performance. The Twins suspension may have a few light compromises for mass production but the components and system overall are designed from the start for performance. Not just the Sachs but the "normal" suspension components in these cars are as good as most and better than many aftermarket parts. The whole idea of all stock parts being crap and all aftermarket ones being better is a huge mistake.


If somebody just wants to lower their car for normal street use there is nothing wrong with getting a set of decent quality lowering springs and leaving the other stock parts as is. They are a quality set up and can be adjusted for normal street use. There is no way on earth that you should be hitting performance levels on the street where changing the whole suspension system makes that big a difference in the car's handling..


Now, if talking track then we have a whole different ball game. The stock setup will still be perfectly fine for the skill and ability of the majority of drivers doing casual track or even auto X. If you have reached a level where your driving has surpassed the stock engineering then it is time to start looking at adjustable dampers, more variable camber adjustment and different sized sway bars. The thing is that people that have reached that level of driving skill know exactly what they need to know and just do it. They do not need to come on forums asking what they need.

I meant Ohlins Road & Track coilovers not anything else.

I remembered reading reports years ago on the Interweb and here about the Japanese made Ohlins Road and Track DFV damper units (Ohlins doesn't make these I think the maker is called Pioneer, not the audio company) having failure after rather low mileage and owners being refused warranty claims. :iono:

My only experience with Sachs... I was reading off Sachs Germany's website that for OEM shocks they have different grades of cartridges with different constructions. For example the shock cartridges that came in the Audi A4 were vastly better constructed than the ones that came in the A3 / VW Golf line. So I was convinced the aftermarket products probably came with the nicer stuff. I eventually replaced my stock Golf GTI Sachs dampers with some cheap Eibach Pro-Kit Sachs dampers (that were rated to even handle their Sportline springs) and got much better rebound control over bumpy roads when paired with the German spec Votex Eibach Pro-Kit springs. It felt like the car was constantly sucked down to the road. Not that the stock shocks were bad, just didn't noticed they offered a much more cushy ride.

I know Sachs offers some really hardcore aftermarket consumer stuff in Germany and Japan, probably even crazier than their local competitors like KW and Bilstein, so their R&D should be right up there with the top tier. But everything is built to a cost that you are willing to pay especially OEM.

Not sure about years ago on the internet, but my local race shop installs Ohlins R&T on lots of cars, 10+ sets per year. It's the first coilover they recommend for cars that do both street and track days.

Sorry got confused with Pioneer Carrozzeria audio.

The maker of the Ohlins Road & Track coilovers is named Labo Carrozzeria Japan.

I have at least 20k miles and 16 or so track days on the Ohlins R&T coilovers on my FD. A friend and competitor in time trials has R&T coilovers on his daily/time-rial BRZ and hasn't had any issues.

As far as I've known they're highly regarded for function and durability despite not being the higher-end Swedish Ohlins...

Carrozzeria in Japan "made" Ohlins R&T....it was all Ohlins internals so it's more like assembled. They were serviceable here in the states without issue. I do not know where they are made now or if Carrozzeria still assembles any sets. They've gone through a few changes and appear to be of slightly better quality then they were in the mid to late 2000s (which was still quite good). There was some internet drama in those days but much of it was clever posturing from a few suspension shops. The issue I have with them now is the standard spring rates for BRZ but we have offered them with customized spring rates.

Anyway to the original poster...my advice is to drive the car stock first. :) Yeah your going to want some front negative camber and the car looks better with a mild drop. But figure out your goals and what you want to improve before jumping in. Maybe try an auto-x fully stock.

- Andrew

Good information and advice, thanks Andrew.

Yeah, I do plan exercise the car in various driving conditions but I’ve driven it enough to know that I would like to dial out the factory understeer. A sportier alignment is not a bad idea. May start with Eibach springs and alignment, then start looking at sway bars.

I had researched and purchased a set of Ohlins R&T coilovers for a previous car but ended up selling the car (and the coilovers) before installing them. Not against other proven setups for the twins.

Appreciate all the input from those with experience.

Easiest solution:

RCE Yellows + Sachs dampers from your PP

I have it, it works - very well.

I like it (K.I.S.).

Got photos?

Saw the drop is 20mm (~0.8”).

How do the spring rates compare to factory springs?

They are 45% stiffer compared to stock springs if im not mistaken. They have 4.5k rate front and rear.

.

I think they feel about 5% stiffer than stock but that is butt dyno
numbers.

Here is a pic

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...5010592C0.jpeg

http://https://flic.kr/p/29kKH75

Well sure, as long as it’s calibrated within the last year... :thumbup:

That’s just what I’m looking for in terms of drop (OEM+). :w00t:

Nice!

And thanks LLA!

Wait do you have different tires on your stock wheels?

Same size tire as it came with but Michelin pilot super sports

Makes sense and yes I can see a visual difference (beefier sidewall).

In what ways does it change driving?

Imagine less tail happy antics traded for increased grip and precision?

Yeah, that basically sums it up. Better ride quality too over the Primacy tires. So take that into account if just changing springs and not tires.

IMO the ride height is as it should have come from the factory. It looks right, and not like someone lowered their car.