Did I misread in that they were going to still keep the RS and maybe the ST available for sale?

I may have missed it, but the press release made no mention of the ST and RS for the North American market.

My understanding is that the ST and RS programs are not going anywhere, but this is the end of the those products in North America. One Ford (global architectures/models) will continue to be their paradigm, but the product mix will be drastically different for our market.

That just makes me sad. I was considering the ST (or even a lightly used RS) as the successor to my twin :( The ST from what I have heard was a great car.

There's going to be a lot of sad enthusiasts, but the reality is Ford had to put enormous incentives on the hood to move the Focus ST and Fiesta ST. You can sustain that in a high margin car like the F150 or Mustang. On a low margin car like the STs? Nah...

Edit: I will add that the domestics are all trying to move up average transaction prices. Compare the 2018 Mustang GT to the 2017. The price has increased considerably and gets more expensive than the Camaro 2SS once you opt for the Performance Pack 2 goodies.

Since the ST and RS now fall under Ford Performance, they might have their own business strategy and funding that might allow them to important either car.

Although I'd be mighty skeptical of ever seeing another Fiesta model.

I'd guess we'll see an ST/ RS of the Ford Active. Similar to how other markets get the MB A45 hatch, but we only get the GLA45 lifted wagon/ crossover thing.

https://www.netcarshow.com/Mercedes-...16-1024-01.jpg
https://www.netcarshow.com/Mercedes-...18-1024-04.jpg

GUYS!! you are all missing what is really going on, they are moving onto bigger and better things in the world..https://i.imgur.com/QjB5jjM.png

please know this is not photo shopped by me, it was 100% accurate from Mr. Ford himself

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRl_D_CunWA"]ibm-why-no-flying-cars-why-why-why.mov - YouTube[/ame]

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of them. Seems like you get much more for your money with something like a VW Atlas. Not to mention everyone in front of you is going to slow to a crawl, especially if you get one in white lol. That said, happy wife is a happy life. And I don't think there's much functional difference between any of the 3 row SUV's.

Yeah I get that and honestly, that's probably the direction things are heading. But this specific announcement from Ford cutting their mostly non-competitive sedan offerings isn't that big a deal, at least for me. At least they're going to keep making the Mustang!

Well, that's because their business model for the Mustang is based on car show replacements. Why else do you think they kept the live axel so long. They only changed it because drivers finally got bad enough that they didn't need a live axel to crash. For every Mustang they sell there's a certain percentage that they will get another sale to the same customer in short order.

Unfortunately this is the way the entire industry is going. Blame your friends, family, and neighbors because they're the ones voting with their dollars. SUV's and Trucks are selling tons and at high profit margins so that's what all the companies are going to pour their resources into.

We're just lucky that some manufacturers will occasionally throw us enthusiasts, who actually enjoy driving, a bone every once in a while. More reasons to appreciate your 86. Honestly it's amazing these things even exists in today's automotive climate. I love mine, just paid it off, and don't think I'm ever going to get rid of it.

Whoa. I always thought low end sedans were kind of a weird thing because in the US market, there are so many used cars that you have tons of options to save money. Who buys these things? I know someone who got a new Kia sedan, probably because they just felt like an extra few k for a new car vs a used Honda or Toyota isn't a big deal, but most people either go for something nicer like a 3 series, or something "cool" like a Jeep, if they're buying a car at all (pretty rare).

I guess my gut feeling about these cars not being really viable was right. We are indeed on the way to roads with only SUVs and autonomous cars.

The idea of the low end sedan not being viable is relatively recent and directly linked to the advances in the low end SUV and CUV. For most of automotive history the low end sedan ruled the car market. The fall from grace started back in the 80s with the introduction of minivans has has avvelerated every since.
Many many want new cars and that included sedans. I can never wrap my head around the frequently stated "just buy a better used one". Where do all these used cars come from if nobody should buy new?
I don't think "most people" buy the higher end or cool stuff. Base models and inexpensive vehicles outsell higher trims by margins that reach the thousands to one. The less costly versions will always sell the best since that is what most people want. Just because Ford is doing away with their sedans (even the top trims) doesn't mean the sedan is dead. The other makers maybe rubbing their hands in glee at the still substantial market that will open up.

actually the issue is the used car market is still messed up and good used cars are just as expensive as their new car rivals. To get a decent deal on a used car you have to risk something with 100k or more miles.

Sedans are still very viable, Toyota still sells everything really well. The problem is Ford's cars have not been competitive in a very long time and realize they sell 7 "suv's or crossovers." They make a ton more money selling an Explorer then they ever did selling a fusion.

Do you really live in middle of nowhere. I noticed a lot of middle of no where areas are poor and they tend to own cheap cars that are cheap to run. I did some traveling up north a couple years ago and saw a TON of chevy cruze. Was in mexico last year and saw a ton of cheap hatchback s i forget the brands.

Trucks are actually expensive if bought new. Auto financing is out of control right now inthe US at least. Average car payment is over $500 now i think is last i read, and more than 80% of new car purchases are financed. I see people at my work place who must be making not more than $20/hr driving lexus, acura, bmw, etc. Their reasoning is "i work hard i deserve it"

Anyway let me stop before i get this off topic

And 84 month loans are very popular too... [emoji58]

Right, people now are attracted to the many offerings of tall CUVs.

"just buy a better used one" -> Let me be very clear, I am not talking about a better used car, I'm talking about a cheaper used car. I understand the appeal of a new car with warranty, but in my experience the "buy used to save money" philosophy is very, very popular in the US. In some other countries, this isn't the case.

Sorry I didn't use the right words by saying "most people...go for nicer stuff", I was trying to say that people I know who have disposable income and buy a car will choose to spend a little more, if they want a car at all. This is NYC (car is not practical, it's just a toy), SF (slightly less useless, but you might as well get something nicer since parking is 400/month), and LA/SF suburbs (you spend so much time in the car in traffic, you might as well have a more enjoyable car to be in). I understand people in other parts of the country have a greater need for an economy car that can rack up miles for cheap, but how much money is the manufacturer making off these ultra cheap cars? Probably very little, which explains why Ford is getting out. Seems like Kia/Hyundai pulling a Walmart worked well.

SMH at the ongoing vehicle arms race. Makes me sick. Fuck insecure ignorant bitches of either gender driving SUVs because "safety."

Grrr!...



That is all.

You mean like how gas prices have been climbing through April? Regular in Pa. is at $3 a gallon or just a little over that. Heard a clip from a podcast and they say it's because the economy is stronger now and more people are out and about, highest demand for gas in April since April 2014 and that crude prices are also on the rise.

It tends to be cyclical like most other commodities. Used car prices vary right along with supply and demand. When there are lots of used cars available, prices fall and you can get a great used car for cheap. Lots of people on the bubble price wise will go with the "better level" used car. Eventually the price gap narrows and folks go back to new cars. All those new cars become used cars, the cycle starts again.

We saw this in the US after the "cash for clunkers" deal. it killed the used car supply causing folks to move to new. Eventually it swung back the other way.

You also see it when there is a huge lease fleet come on the market. This happened recently in Atlanta when all the Nissan Leafs that were basically free for a two year lease with "green" incentives. Now, they can't give the used ones away there are so many back off-lease.

Last summer we bought my soon a 2 year old off-lease Ford Focus for just at 50% off the original sticker price, still with 10,000 miles left on the warranty. It would have been very hard to have justified buying a new one given that.

I meant a spike due to a major shock to the economy, war overseas, or natural disaster.

Let's not forget the Gulf Coast has like the lion's share of petroleum refining capability in the US, a good hurricane + a random conflict involving one of the Persian Gulf states can easily make oil spike sky high.

And the Canadian dollar will go up and all of a sudden we can get cheap car parts!

Well, toyota and honda is still there.

Did you guys see the new avalon? Man that's a good car.

Ford and us brand offering is so far behind comepare to the german/japanese auto makers on sedans....


I don't know what ford is smoking but the new camry is still the best selling car in the first quater of 2018 in US.

Then you can invest in US real estate like lots canadian did back in 2013! :D

Said ignorant bitches interviewed here.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EvsrMaj6U"]Jeremy Clarkson's view on off-road cars, 4x4s and the school run - Clarkson's Car Years - BBC worldwide - YouTube[/ame]

Ford will stop selling cars by 2022...
 

That's not because the Camry is a good car. It's because, generally, people who buy Camrys don't know any better because they've never had anything else. It's a car for people who want an appliance. just like my clothesdryer is an appliance to me. It does the job, but I don't care beyond that. They don't care. They just want a car. It's much easier to go to the Toyota dealer you've always gone to and trade it in for the same drink of beige than it is to go cross shopping. That takes effort.

Long thread!

The sedans probably went to fleets a lot and can be supplanted with CUVs and SUVs. With so many gears or CVT they are more efficient than ever.

And high COG designs will be less so when fitted with varying degrees of electrification.

This .. ^^^^ .. about a million times. Some friends of mine were in a difficult financial position, so they sold their house and bought a slightly smaller cheaper one to "save money." Thing is, they owed less on their previous house than the purchase price of their new house and less on that mortgage (and less time to go) than they do on their new mortgage. "But.. but... lower payments.." ... well, then refinance.. "but... smaller.. cheaper to heat.." .. the extra $20K in debt recently incurred by new mortgage buys a LOT of heat.. "but..but.. cash in hand after closing" ... ummm.. no... extra debt incurred by taking said cash. No matter what, I couldn't get them to understand what was really happening. Refinancing to lower payments if absolutely necessary due to family circumstances, sure. Incurring MORE debt to save money.. NO. That's like eating ice cream to lose weight.

Same thing with cars. Yes, you can buy a car that will get better mileage than your current car, but you'll almost assuredly spend more purchasing a newer car than any savings you realize in gas expenditure. Saving money is NEVER a reason to buy a newer car.

My wife buys new cars because she sees a colour she like better than what she has! At least the last time I convinced her to dump the gas guzzling SUV for something a little more thrifty.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The reality is for a vast majority of people, a car is a means to an end.

The guy/gal who invents a car coating whose color can be changed electrically via remote key fob or dash control is going to become very very rich... or very hated by new car dealers since your wife is hardly alone in her purchasing reasoning in this world.

This technology HAS to exist... right?

lol.. CLOSE! Now, if we could only get it work when it WASN'T raining.. Of course, I live in Syracuse.. it always rains here.

It would be expensive as hell right now but technically you could do this by wrapping the car in something like OLED which is thin enough for some shapes.

There is also paint that changes color when you run an electrical current through it (I think the process is called chromism) searching....

Yep, here's an example using an 86!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuTjAxX9MSU"]Amazing Colour Changing Car | Must Watch | HMTV - YouTube[/ame]

(OK, so this may or may not be fake, still it demonstrates what you are looking for....)

Fake news

It's more then that, camry and most of the toyota line up is no longer the same as 2 years ago with the way they update the model to de-appliance their car lineup & people who buys this segment knows, camry wasn't the best selling toyota for a good time already till they updated the model last winter. There is a reason that it went back up there instead of a toyota suv.

Shit I feel like 10 years old again.......:D Omg I miss this

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMxRQAOApkg"]Warm weather means its mustang season - YouTube[/ame]

"We're just following what the market wants" says industry that spends billions of advertising dollars telling the market what it wants.

;)

- Andrew

https://www.ford.com/suvs-crossovers...181021030111:s


:lol:

Here in AU both Ford and GM plants have closed, they built lots of big 4 door cars that had rubbish build quality, reliability, after sales and resale.

The government kept throwing money at them because of the employment of local workers.

They were told to pick up their game and fix all of the issues they were having, they asked for more money, government gave them more.

Nothing changed, the government got stuck into them again, they asked again for more money, the government said yes but you need to fix the issues.

Once they had the money, both Ford and GM Australia sent the money to the parent companies in the US and closed the plants.

You can still buy Ford and GM products here, but most are made in Asia, they are still poor quality and generally unreliable, resale and aftersales service is still woefull.

I don't know how much money, your tax money, the government gives that goes into bailing out Ford or GM in the US, but maybe your government has put the hard word on them.

Here in AU, both companies made out it wasn't their decision to close and it was the governments fault, not their poor practices.

In the end both Ford and GM had about $15 Billion dollars in subsidies in the 10 years prior to them closing.