Oil change intervals America vs Europe
 

Hi

I am wondering why the oil change intervals are so different in America and Europe for Toyota GT86?

Is there any other geographical difference? Japan, Australia …

America
Normal: 7500 miles or 7.5 months
Severe: Repeated short distance driving; driving in extremely cold weather, replace every 3,750 miles or 3 and 3/4 months, whichever occurs first.

Europe
10000 miles or 1 year. There is no distinction between normal and severe use.

In general, everything is different
Engine air filter
America
Normal: Replace 30,000 miles or 30 months
Severe: Inspection: 7500 miles or 7.5 months

Europe
40,000 miles or 4 year. There is no distinction between normal and severe use.

Do you have any idea?

Did you factor in the difference in miles and kilometers?
Pretty sure Europe and Japan are in the kilometers system.

Yes I did. In km it is 15,000 km (9750 miles)

all about money. In the US those numbers were set by corporations looking for profits. They go back to the 50's and people haven't even thought of thinking about all the new tech that makes them irrelevant, because money.

In europe they are both more realistic and especially in germany they spend more money maintaining and paying attention to all the little details about their vehicles, so they can be more honest about maintenance recommendations. I doubt many europeans "forget" to change their oil for 20k miles.

Probably they wanted to be competitive with the other manufacturers and the market share is very small to cause too many issues. Overall, I would not suggest to change the oil every 15,000 km (9750 miles). I am also in Europe and change it once per year, but I 'm doing less than 3,000 km. It is better to stick with the American intervals. Especially on the oil changes ...

Hmm good question. I have a couple of theories.

It could be based on average driving habits of the people in those regions. I'm not sure how it is in Europe, but maybe Americans take more and shorter trips in their cars on average. Differences in how much driving is typically done in a period of time can be another example.

It could also be based on cultural/knowledge differences. IMO, most Americans aren't likely to really know the difference between synthetic, natural, and blended oil, and are likely to make decisions based on price difference when applicable (DIY, quick lube shop, etc). 7500 mile oil changes will probably get the engine through the warranty period regardless. Maybe Europeans are different and pay more attention to the maintenance requirements? Maybe Americans are more likely to abuse the car than Europeans?

Is the warranty different in Europe? Power train is 36000 miles or 5 years or something like that here.

Obviously environment is different. It's possible the engineers correlated different environments to different failure modes, and accounted for it with maintenance? Both regions have a lot of variation, so I'm not sure this theory makes sense.

Is the air filter change interval about the same as other European market cars?

Changing your oil every 10k miles is fine.

Yes, I think so.

10,000 miles using modern synthetics is perfectly fine for a car driven "normally" or with infrequent "spirited" runs.
If you live in a dusty climate or push your car all the time than that frequency is not enough and should be watched closely. I have found over the years that many "enthusiasts" grossly over change their fluids when they really are not pushing the car hard enough to warrant it. It sort of seems like a feel good action for many when in fact they are just wasting money and resources.


Air filters should be checked at least every couple of months and changed or cleaned when required. I would never let one go without at least looking at it or just change it at a set interval if it is still fine.

Toyota is in the conservative group with, for example, BMW. They have services every 15k km (~10k milles). VAG group (VW, Audi,Skoda, Seat) has service every 30k km (20k milles). Some cars of the VAG group the engine control unit decide service by itself, something between 10k miles to 20k milles according to some variables (distance, RPM, oil pressure,...)

Every country (or group of countries) can have different standards for oil quality. I'm not sure what Japan & Australia's is, but I'm pretty sure Europe's standard is higher than America's. Over here, we had that whole Castrol lawsuit mess (back in the late '90's or early 2000's?) that makes "full" synthetic oil not so synthetic anymore.

European synthetic isn't like the "fake" full synthetic over here.
Manufacturers wouldn't intentionally raise the interval for no reason, unless they know that interval won't cause their cars to break down prematurely because of over-due oil changes.



Side note: Look for 100% synthetic oil if you want the best quality oil. There's only a handful of companies that still makes'em in America.. Amsoil is one, I can't remember the other brand(s). That "Full" Synthetic label doesn't really mean 100% anymore.
That's why "synthetic" oil is so [relatively] cheap these days.. ~$25 for 5 gallons usually. I remember synthetic oil being more expensive than that 20 years ago.

And inflation is a real thing, so either synthetics have gotten worse (i.e., cheaper) in quality, or they're producing this stuff in a sweatshop & paying the workers pennies on the hour (which I'm not ruling out as a possibility either :D).

And it can't possibly be because they figured out how to make them more efficiently, hell no. Just like cars right? The 86 costs $26k today, that's ~$12.8k in 1989 when the 240sx came out with a sticker price of >$13k, the 86 is certainly not a better car than a 1989 Nissan 240sx with that rockin' 140 hp single-cam engine. Thank god for depreciation!

The warranty is 100,000 km (62,500 miles) or 3 years.

Yes, it is same in Germany. What oil grade are you using? 0w20 or 5w30?

I am using 5W-30. I my opinion the engine works with high oil temperature without oil cooler.

What oil grade are you using?

Yes and no. The oil temperature sensor is not located in the oil pan, but after passing the engine. So it is gives the highest possible temperature. Other manufacturers are placing it in the oil pan and it reads 10-12 C lower. Of course, it doesn't hurt to use a 5w30 oil. I use the same grade. It is better if you run the car harder.

Well that's true, they could've made them more efficiently.
Cool your tail pipes though.. didn't you see my smiley face, I was just being sarcastic. I'm sure that kid in their sweatshop agrees with me too :bellyroll:

But America's oil is still "cheaper" quality than the European oil, synthetic or not.
That's the main reason for the discrepancy between the different oil change intervals by the manufacturer... for the same car.

That's true. I had not thought in your point. But, you are absolutely right. You read the manual, all Toyota Cars have thé same oil. 0W-20 the universal solution, from Aygo to GT86, hybrid or gasoline. All of them have the same oil and service program. Doesn't have to much sense. My feeling is you don't drive an Aygo in the same manner that GT86. Maybe just for fuel economy they can use the same oil.

Is 0W20 the adequate viscosity for driving hard a GT86?

5W-30 could mean something totally different in Europe, since they tend to focus on lower viscosity in general. It'd be interesting to compare the 5W-30 oil specs over there to something similar over here.

There's just different standards and goals that Europe & America are trying to achieve.
Here's one article explaining the differences between the oils:

https://www.autoserviceworld.com/car...european-oils/

I'm sure there's other articles on the subject, but that gives you a good idea on why Europe can & does specify longer oil change intervals.

tfw manufacturers make oil that meets ILSAC, API & ACEA

tfw viscosity is tested via standard SAE procedure around the world

5W-30 absolutely means the same in the US as it does in Japan or Germany

https://d2706ruq7qkfdn.cloudfront.ne...k_07-07-14.png

By "could mean something totally different" I meant "could be something drastically better". European oil often times go above & beyond the 'minimum' requirements of car makers (and US standards for that matter). They have different additives in their oil to achieve different goals with the cars there.

Could be something, or could be nothing... I think it's something. They've got different standards from the U.S., and that's reflected in car makers' oil change specifications.

[emoji1375][emoji1375] I too, wonder about this

For 75K miles, it has so far for me! :D

But when you think about it, I don't doubt that the 0W-20 specification is heavily influenced by the complicated (and stupid) mathematical formula of the CAFE regulations requiring car manufacturers to raise the fuel economy of ALL their cars (on average) to 34 mpg.

I know I didn't explain it well, but it's boring.. and like most things in this country (including motor oil 'standards') there's plenty of politics behind it. You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpor...e_fuel_economy

Since Europe doesn't have to deal with the CAFE regulations, and since they have different oil qualities as well, the 5W-30 oil suites them just fine... even in the freezing weather of Sweden, right OP? ;)

Isn't the viscosity itself that describes a good oil for our engines and so far there aren't big differences in European and USA engine oils and additive packages on them, there are remarkable American oil companies for heavy use say Redline, as European say Motul Fuchs Elf and so on.
Viscosity index, Total base number (longevity/service intervals) and more importantly HTHS (stability on continuous high temp) is what we should search on a good oil no matter if it is 0/20 (ILSAC/fuel economy reasons only) 5/30 (only Mobil1 AFAIK is ILSAC) or higher viscosity!

For heavy street use or track driving an HTHS index less than 3,5 may be detrimental for the engine if we haven't an oil cooler which leads us to an oil of 5W30 and higher viscosity, only repeated UOAs may tell the truth about the oil we use, oil service intervals and driving habits.
Otherwise we should choose a very good >=5W30 oil as the factory oil sensor is in the correct place on the engine block and reads real oil temps not lower than those the oil achieves as other manufacturers do.
So IMHO the answer is NO, 0W20 isn't adequate for heavy street use even in cold climates!

The issue with the ACEA classification is that there are a lot of categories. Then, when you go to the oil shop you will find just from one brand and one line product several versions ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, ACEA A5/B5, C1, C2, C2, C3, C4, C5.

At least in European Toyota cars don´t says a single word about ACEA. The manual only refer to the API classification (API SN).

In the picture that you uploaded it is A1/B1, but you have several options. Please give a look just for Castrol Edge

What is the more adequate for your application? (Eco drive/spirit drive/heavy track sessions)

The owner manuals don´t talk about that.


https://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds/...edmb=No&cols=0

The engine is a glorified economy car engine. For normal driving it will work great. The more you beat on the car and drive it like an actual sports car, the more you want better high temp protection, ie an oil cooler, thicker oil, and changing the oil more frequently.

It's 5 years in Belgium ;) , same kilometers though.
Toyota EU headquarters is located in Belgium, that's why we get 2 more years.

5 years or 100k in Norway too.
I also have a full coverage insurance, which will pay for ALL the mechanical issues until the car is 10yo or 200k km. That's why I'm more than ok, changing the oil every 15k :D

What about the SAPS oil level for heavy street use? mid SAPS oils or high SAPS? A5/B5, A3/B3, C3. What is your opinion?

0W20 is fine as long as you are running a quality oil.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125178

Factory suggests 0W20 for economy reasons only (ILSAC), why to use such low viscosity oil in 300V series when you track your car, this 0W20 isn't good for economy nor for high protection as a 5W30 that may save your engine in special occasions?
Of course this is your own car but better safe than sorry!

I'll tell you what I do with my cars, I find a very good oil suitable for street and rare track use (I always change it after each track) that I change every 5-7.500 kms maximum, no matter it's API/ACEA specifications but a good oil has many specs, usually high in SAPS for better protection as I never owned a diesel w/DPF and most of us have removed the first catalyst (in every case better have a damaged catalyst than a broken engine), usually higher in viscosity from the factory oil due to hot Greek climate (I always warm my car before rev it) from a known and reliable company, Motul, Redline, Fuchs are some of my favorites!
Oil choice factors for me are HTHS, NOACK evaporation loss, Viscosity index, TBN not API/ACEA classification.

But this is my opinion, my driving style, my car, since now I owned three turbo Subarus the first Impreza GT MY00 after 350.000km still runs fine in it's forth owner except some turbo and peripherals change and the other two as far as I know have not engine problems so far!

Not my car.

If you actually read the thread you can see an oil analysis was done and it was recommended to run up to 7k miles on a car that was regularly tracked, boosted, and on e85. If you want to continue to argue against actual evidence, go ahead. They have a term for that. It is called "willful ignorance."

Each car and driver is different I already mentioned it above, it isn't a case one size fits all!
You have an oil cooler which means low oil temps thus no need for a quite high HTHS oil.
Even car mileage, climate conditions, fuel quality, modifications, dust (aftermarket free flowing filters degrade the oil) etc affect oil life and behavior, when running on E85 is completely different story from running 91 or 93 pump gas (95 or 98 RON in Europe), detonation is minimal as fuel deposits that degrade your oil.

I can't see why someone should stay to a non ILSAC 0W20 oil when can have a thicker 5W30 with better safe margins except of the little lower oil temperatures (thinner oil dissipates heat better).

So you are right, IN YOUR CASE 0W20 300V based on evidence is enough, but let me know would you suggest for everyone that track regularly his car to use this viscosity Motul on pump gas without oil cooler?
Have you seen repeatedly UoA of cars heavily used with no oil cooler same as yours?
That's the point!

LOL I actually run 5W30, but will be checking out some 0W20 later this year as I can now more accurately monitor the car(I have more gauges).

Again you need to read, that example was not my car and is a far more extreme example then my car.

I am not going to search for you but there are plenty of UoA's to look at on the FA20. Pretty sure there is a thread around here dedicated to it.

This is my opinion I don't suggest you to follow my approach, what I am sure for is that a 0W20 oil even 300V or Redline can't withstand continuous very high temperatures if you haven't oil cooler, especially if you have some oil consumption with the thinner oil stay on a 0W30/5W30 with good HTHS >=3, bear in mind Redline/300V are of the thicker 0W20 w/high HTHS oils in this range although they don't cover ILSAC specification that means they don't favor fuel economy.
A Mobil1 5W30 (ILSAC spec) covers both cases fuel economy and engine protection...

Oil breakdown from temp with a good synthetic is not the issue, it is pressure loss with temp with this motor in particular. This is all common and searchable info on the forum.

What is wrong with you?
When we talk about cars and oils stay on this, do you know me, do you know where I am coming from, my past, my experiences, do you want me to talk about countries and wars or what?
You say a 0W20 is ok for all purposes and then that there is an issue with oil pressure, is it ok or not according to you?

Here an interesting thread with data using a good oil Motul 300V comparing 0W20 vs. 5W30 Test Data

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91820

According to the data, as expected, 5w30 manage better the increment of temperature. The conclusion is to use 5W30 without oil cooler. isn´t it?

The more interesting part is the second graph, which includes (green line) new data using 5w30 with oil cooler. The maximum temperature is lower than without cooler, as expected. However the oil preassure in this case behaves like a 0w20.

Is this because the drop of preassure due to the oil cooler?

If I am interpreting the data correctly, even in track use (some laps with your friends) if the oil temperature doesn´t rise to the sky and you don´t pretent to join Gazoo racing team. It seems to be better to use 5W30 without oil cooler.

What do you think?