Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat
(Post 3077858)
1) The speculation that they could use the global platform was presented in the scenario that Toyota pulled out and left the whole thing up to Subaru. Nobody ever claimed that this was indeed what was happening.
2) The Global platform is reported by Subaru as being used in their full range of cars from "A subcompact hatchback to a seven passenger SUV". It is not theory that it will be a scalable platform. This is well documented and irrefutable.
3) You have expressed nothing but an "I have superior knowledge" attitude and dismissed every factual piece of evidence placed in front of you. Your frequent "Ask an engineer" statements fly out the window as soon as an engineer answers. Now they are "Ask an engineer that agrees with me only".
4) Toyota does not have to "bend to the will" of Subaru. They tasked Subaru with much of the original design. Much of that design and even some of the actual parts are used in the new platform. Subaru will play a major role in designing any new version. The Lead Engineer is exactly that the lead. There will be a large team that actually performs the work. That team will consist of both Toyota and Subaru employees. That is presuming that both companies stay involved.
5) The new platform and any other platform can be used with any form of drive train. This has been done hundreds of times on the same model car over the decades. Because it is primarily designed for one drive system does not automatically rule it out for all others.
6) All of the speculation (no theory has been presented) has been based upon "delineated facts". Just because you disagree with or don't understand those facts does not mean that the logic is wrong.
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1) The scenario that Toyota pulls out is not a fact stated anywhere. So you're saying your argument is based upon a false premise?
2) Is the Toyota 86/BRZ included in the "full range of Subaru cars"? Subaru's announcements all say that every model will specifically get the SGP with the exception of the 86/BRZ in which they say it will just be upgraded. No mention of the SGP and the BRZ can be specifically found.
3) What "factual" evidence SPECIFICALLY STATED BY SUBARU DIRECTLY, have I disregarded? If it is not specifically stated by Subaru, it is just theory, not evidence. Trying to say that VW did it, so it is fact, is ludicrous. Believing that you know what Subaru will do better than Subaru itself is demonstrating a false, "superior knowledge".
4) So if the lead engineer on a project comes from Toyota, is that factual evidence that they will follow Subaru's dictates? You can falsely make up a story that Subaru "might" take the lead, but does that make sense when the lead engineer belongs to a different company? That's trying to rationalize a POV rather than logically deducting a result.
5) You say that any platform can be used for any type of platform. Again, trying to rationalize facts that are not there. Nowhere does Subaru say the SGP will be used for RWD cars. Yet, they specifically say that AWD is part of the SGP. Why do you disregard what Subaru actually says?
6) Again, you present absolutely no substantiated facts -- only how you can rationalize a BRZ is based upon the SGP. I've been a little harsh on you guys by calling it "fake news". But what else do you call made up theories based upon no substantiated facts?
It's been fun going back and forth on this, on a couple of accounts. First, I have learned a bit more about the SGP because I've had to review much of what Subaru has specifically said about the subject. Secondly, learning about the VW platform was interesting even if there is no association with what Subaru is doing. Lastly, it is an interesting psychological study seeing how brand/car bias affects deductive reasoning. Perhaps it is a function of how tied people are to their cars. I really like the BRZ, or I would not have bought one. But I am not brand loyal, nor do I wish to significantly modify the car from stock. I think some of the stuff you guys do to your cars that are going to be used for the street just doesn't make sense like extra wide wheels and tires, significant lowering, headers, etc. The only one that does make some sense are turbos because an argument can be made that at this time of high hp cars, a boost in hp makes sense.
None of us really knows what the next generation of BRZ will be like. Perhaps like Ford who is getting rid of most of its sedans, the BRZ will eventually disappear. It seems that the only profitable cars left are SUV's and trucks. The Subaru Global Platform will certainly help if that's the way they go. That said, I have my BRZ and it is a blast to drive. I plan to keep it for several years until I get so old my children take my keys away from me. If I had to guess about the direction of the industry based on current trends, the hot cars of the future will be SUV's. They are a much better platform for safety, passenger packaging, providing the room for blown engines, and, dare I say, scalability.
The key factor, long term, for any developmental pattern is the associated economics. And I don't see the economics of the BRZ to FHI being significant in any way. Sales of mass sports cars continue to drop and at some time, sales volume will lower profitability. That said, I've always had sports cars my entire life and irrationally, I will continue to have them.
No more posts on this subject for me. Enjoy....
