Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
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-   -   I think the FRS/BRZ/86 is better than the S2000 - YouTube Video (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125877)

Scracho 03-06-2018 10:15 PM
I think the FRS/BRZ/86 is better than the S2000 - YouTube Video
 
Alright, I want to preface this by saying I don't have a particular hate for the S2000 and quite honestly it's a great car! But after owning two of them and now onto my third 86 (2018 BRZ tS) I discuss why I feel these cars are underrated and why they make for a better daily/track/weekend car...

Enjoy!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKG0hvThnlw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKG0hvThnlw[/ame]

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 12:11 PM
uh oh.. This can only go south..

bcj 03-07-2018 12:28 PM
Only gravel log roads north of there? Seems legit.

Scracho 03-07-2018 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3054767)
uh oh.. This can only go south..
Lmao! Probably, I don’t claim to be a pro or a solid source for automotive knowledge but I think I make some good points

Teseo 03-07-2018 12:33 PM
Wow... just a dude rambling for almost 40min. The only person i will take the words about wich is better is Keiichi Tsuchiya

Scracho 03-07-2018 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teseo (Post 3054784)
Wow... just a dude rambling for almost 40min. The only person i will take the words about wich is better is Keiichi Tsuchiya
Yeah, I tend to talk a lot... Thanks for referring to me as a dude though:)

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scracho (Post 3054781)
Lmao! Probably, I don’t claim to be a pro or a solid source for automotive knowledge but I think I make some good points
Honestly, I'm a Honda fan boy, but I didn't seek out an S2000 for the simple reason that the 86 is a better daily, and can function as a 3.5 seater in a pinch.

If Honda had an affordable RWD boxer, or even something just competitive in DD capabilities with that crazy low CoG and RWD, I'd jump ship immediately, but they don't..

Sure the 86 has heritage, but Honda has the NSfuckingX (The Senna one mind you). The car I want Honda to really make is a cheaper, slower, not as tech worthy.. NSX, but they never will.. Even if they took the S2000, chopped it up a bit, made the engine a mid engine mounted behind driver (I mean the car is already mid ship), but less tech than an NSX, just less everything, therefore less expensive, think Porsche Cayman price.... I would buy it literally tomorrow, 86 gone with the wind, in with the baby NSX.

Scracho 03-07-2018 01:09 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3054802)
Honestly, I'm a Honda fan boy, but I didn't seek out an S2000 for the simple reason that the 86 is a better daily, and can function as a 3.5 seater in a pinch.

If Honda had an affordable RWD boxer, or even something just competitive in DD capabilities with that crazy low CoG and RWD, I'd jump ship immediately, but they don't..

Sure the 86 has heritage, but Honda has the NSfuckingX (The Senna one mind you). The car I want Honda to really make is a cheaper, slower, not as tech worthy.. NSX, but they never will.. Even if they took the S2000, chopped it up a bit, made the engine a mid engine mounted behind driver (I mean the car is already mid ship), but less tech than an NSX, just less everything, therefore less expensive, think Porsche Cayman price.... I would buy it literally tomorrow, 86 gone with the wind, in with the baby NSX.

I’m with you! I’m a Honda guy and have been for years and couldn’t agree with you any more... I was really looking forward to the rumours of a baby NSX being released and drooled at this photo forever until I heard it’s not happening. It’s unfortunate because I feel Honda is really missing out on a gap in their market.

Sapphireho 03-07-2018 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3054802)
Honestly, I'm a Honda fan boy, but I didn't seek out an S2000 for the simple reason that the 86 is a better daily, and can function as a 3.5 seater in a pinch.

If Honda had an affordable RWD boxer, or even something just competitive in DD capabilities with that crazy low CoG and RWD, I'd jump ship immediately, but they don't..

Sure the 86 has heritage, but Honda has the NSfuckingX (The Senna one mind you). The car I want Honda to really make is a cheaper, slower, not as tech worthy.. NSX, but they never will.. Even if they took the S2000, chopped it up a bit, made the engine a mid engine mounted behind driver (I mean the car is already mid ship), but less tech than an NSX, just less everything, therefore less expensive, think Porsche Cayman price.... I would buy it literally tomorrow, 86 gone with the wind, in with the baby NSX.
Drove a friend's Honda powered Elise once. If Honda made something like that, that was decently affordable, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scracho (Post 3054806)
I’m with you! I’m a Honda guy and have been for years and couldn’t agree with you any more... I was really looking forward to the rumours of a baby NSX being released and drooled at this photo forever until I heard it’s not happening. It’s unfortunate because I feel Honda is really missing out on a gap in their market.
The things I would do for an affordable NSX... Been my dream car ever since I could remember cars. It is the only car in existence that I cannot think about logically, nothing is better than it in ever aspect.... (I lie, maybe interior).

Leonardo 03-07-2018 02:17 PM
S2000 > FR-S - Overall car


S2000 > FR-S - Track use


S2000 < FR-S - DD use


I have owned both too.

Teseo 03-07-2018 02:19 PM
I want an 86 but with LFA engine, so baby LFA? V10 engine with the v8 engine dimension

Scracho 03-07-2018 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teseo (Post 3054867)
I want an 86 but with LFA engine, so baby LFA? V10 engine with the v8 engine dimension
That would be ridiculous

fatoni 03-07-2018 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3054802)
Honestly, I'm a Honda fan boy, but I didn't seek out an S2000 for the simple reason that the 86 is a better daily, and can function as a 3.5 seater in a pinch.

If Honda had an affordable RWD boxer, or even something just competitive in DD capabilities with that crazy low CoG and RWD, I'd jump ship immediately, but they don't..

Sure the 86 has heritage, but Honda has the NSfuckingX (The Senna one mind you). The car I want Honda to really make is a cheaper, slower, not as tech worthy.. NSX, but they never will.. Even if they took the S2000, chopped it up a bit, made the engine a mid engine mounted behind driver (I mean the car is already mid ship), but less tech than an NSX, just less everything, therefore less expensive, think Porsche Cayman price.... I would buy it literally tomorrow, 86 gone with the wind, in with the baby NSX.
But Toyota probably has more heritage than Honda, the cog of the frs isn't all that crazy, and if you want a cayman priced midship the cayman is going to be better than a Honda.

TorontoNat 03-07-2018 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3054925)
But Toyota probably has more heritage than Honda, the cog of the frs isn't all that crazy, and if you want a cayman priced midship the cayman is going to be better than a Honda.
CoG is super crazy actually it's even lower than a 458's for example.

Teseo 03-07-2018 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scracho (Post 3054920)
That would be ridiculous
Ridiculous fast

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3054925)
But Toyota probably has more heritage than Honda, the cog of the frs isn't all that crazy, and if you want a cayman priced midship the cayman is going to be better than a Honda.
Idunno, the current Type R is a really great feat for them and they achieved that at a modest, yet still somewhat expensive price point. Tac on another 20k (CAD) and you are in Cayman territory, but have a ton of wiggle room, not to mention the obvious cheaper to maintain Honda car. I really think Honda could make a better car than the Cayman at that price point.

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teseo (Post 3054867)
I want an 86 but with LFA engine, so baby LFA? V10 engine with the v8 engine dimension
Not feasible. Try an H6 or Turbo H4.

WolfpackS2k 03-07-2018 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo (Post 3054865)
S2000 > FR-S - Overall car


S2000 > FR-S - Track use


S2000 < FR-S - DD use


I have owned both too.
Ditto from another former owner of both.

TorontoNat 03-07-2018 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teseo (Post 3054936)
Ridiculous fast
Ridiculously useless

Teseo 03-07-2018 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3054948)
Not feasible. Try an H6 or Turbo H4.
Why not? With money everyrhing is possible

fatoni 03-07-2018 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoNat (Post 3054930)
CoG is super crazy actually it's even lower than a 458's for example.
But higher than the cog of my 89 miata or basically any corvette. Not that crazy.

fatoni 03-07-2018 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3054947)
Idunno, the current Type R is a really great feat for them and they achieved that at a modest, yet still somewhat expensive price point. Tac on another 20k (CAD) and you are in Cayman territory, but have a ton of wiggle room, not to mention the obvious cheaper to maintain Honda car. I really think Honda could make a better car than the Cayman at that price point.
You can think that but I, along with every company not trying to compete with the cayman (Honda included) disagree.

WolfpackS2k 03-07-2018 05:49 PM
Uhh, except Honda already built a Cayman and everyone adores it. It's called the first gen NSX.

Leonardo 03-07-2018 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k (Post 3055005)
Uhh, except Honda already built a Cayman and everyone adores it. It's called the first gen NSX.




Coincidently, Mr. Wolf (Pulp Fiction) was the first person to drive a NSX on the big screen.

fatoni 03-07-2018 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k (Post 3055005)
Uhh, except Honda already built a Cayman and everyone adores it. It's called the first gen NSX.
Debatable but within reason. My argument was in the context that Honda can't do that today for the price of a cayman, let alone less. They couldn't do it then and they can't do it now. Not to sell short what a lot of companies do but the cayman benefits from a lot of preexisting resources Porsche has.

Sapphireho 03-07-2018 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k (Post 3055005)
Uhh, except Honda already built a Cayman and everyone adores it. It's called the first gen NSX.

We are talking 2018. They have nothing.

Scracho 03-07-2018 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3054925)
But Toyota probably has more heritage than Honda, the cog of the frs isn't all that crazy, and if you want a cayman priced midship the cayman is going to be better than a Honda.
Agreed, but cost of ownership i.e. consumables, fuel, maint. insurance would be higher than any Honda IMO #porschetax

WolfpackS2k 03-07-2018 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphireho (Post 3055030)
We are talking 2018. They have nothing.
Oh really, I had no idea.

ST185RC 03-07-2018 07:18 PM
CR vs Ts,

I'll take the unicorn CR, thanks.

10 years down the road, CR will be worth a load of money, as if a mint s2000 didn't already cost an arm and a leg. Ts, not so much....

Pure driving experience, S2000 wins hands down. Practicality and carrying stuff? sure, the 86 can have that one.

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3054999)
You can think that but I, along with every company not trying to compete with the cayman (Honda included) disagree.
Why would any company try to compete with a low volume car? You may have got the point, but your response was seemingly a blanket statement misdirection; Honda could build a car within that $62k CAD price range that would have the potential to be better.

Think of the 86 in this scenario, we all praise the thing, it's affordable, easy to maintain thus far, reliable and handles well. All of this for various low prices, but then why don't they make a $62k Cayman killer? I mean they have the MR2 which they can base the tech off of, Toyota is the most wealthy Automotive company, and if you look at the LFA, they have the engineers.. So why don't they make the car to trump a low volume Porsche Cayman?

Trick question, none of us peasants know, but if I was to guess, it's not because the Cayman is unbeatable, it's because it would generate next to no profit.

There's 2 of me, Baby NSX/LFA dreamers, for every 100000000 Corolla, Civic, Elantra, Focus normal peasants.

86kahl 03-07-2018 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3055072)
Why would any company try to compete with a low volume car? You may have got the point, but your response was seemingly a blanket statement misdirection; Honda could build a car within that $62k CAD price range that would have the potential to be better.



Think of the 86 in this scenario, we all praise the thing, it's affordable, easy to maintain thus far, reliable and handles well. All of this for various low prices, but then why don't they make a $62k Cayman killer? I mean they have the MR2 which they can base the tech off of, Toyota is the most wealthy Automotive company, and if you look at the LFA, they have the engineers.. So why don't they make the car to trump a low volume Porsche Cayman?



Trick question, none of us peasants know, but if I was to guess, it's not because the Cayman is unbeatable, it's because it would generate next to no profit.



There's 2 of me, Baby NSX/LFA dreamers, for every 100000000 Corolla, Civic, Elantra, Focus normal peasants.


[emoji1375]what they said

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ST185RC (Post 3055067)
CR vs Ts,

I'll take the unicorn CR, thanks.

10 years down the road, CR will be worth a load of money, as if a mint s2000 didn't already cost an arm and a leg. Ts, not so much....

Pure driving experience, S2000 wins hands down. Practicality and carrying stuff? sure, the 86 can have that one.
I'm waiting for S2040.

fatoni 03-07-2018 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3055072)
Why would any company try to compete with a low volume car? You may have got the point, but your response was seemingly a blanket statement misdirection; Honda could build a car within that $62k CAD price range that would have the potential to be better.

Think of the 86 in this scenario, we all praise the thing, it's affordable, easy to maintain thus far, reliable and handles well. All of this for various low prices, but then why don't they make a $62k Cayman killer? I mean they have the MR2 which they can base the tech off of, Toyota is the most wealthy Automotive company, and if you look at the LFA, they have the engineers.. So why don't they make the car to trump a low volume Porsche Cayman?

Trick question, none of us peasants know, but if I was to guess, it's not because the Cayman is unbeatable, it's because it would generate next to no profit.

There's 2 of me, Baby NSX/LFA dreamers, for every 100000000 Corolla, Civic, Elantra, Focus normal peasants.
of course we are all praising the frs. its an frs forum. zoom out a little and you realize its slower than basically all of its competition to get there it took the work of two manufacturers to get there. even if we erase all the signs pointing to the difficulty of the task, what makes you think honda could do better for cheaper?

Jordanwolf 03-07-2018 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3055110)
of course we are all praising the frs. its an frs forum. zoom out a little and you realize its slower than basically all of its competition to get there it took the work of two manufacturers to get there. even if we erase all the signs pointing to the difficulty of the task, what makes you think honda could do better for cheaper?
Ya just don't get it. I made no mention of Honda making a cheaper better car, pretty sure I said given a $62k price point or near it, Honda could make a better car with a similar design. Running costs is what would be cheaper because Honda Power TM

fatoni 03-07-2018 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3054947)
Idunno, the current Type R is a really great feat for them and they achieved that at a modest, yet still somewhat expensive price point. Tac on another 20k (CAD) and you are in Cayman territory, but have a ton of wiggle room, not to mention the obvious cheaper to maintain Honda car. I really think Honda could make a better car than the Cayman at that price point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3055126)
Ya just don't get it. I made no mention of Honda making a cheaper better car, pretty sure I said given a $62k price point or near it, Honda could make a better car with a similar design. Running costs is what would be cheaper because Honda Power TM
how is that different?

Sapphireho 03-07-2018 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k (Post 3055054)
Oh really, I had no idea.
Yea. First gen NSX is more expensive than its worth now, and old. No reason Honda couldnt do like a MR2 type. An affordable car.

Jordanwolf 03-08-2018 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3055129)
how is that different?
U r a brain wave fam.

Yardjass 03-08-2018 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 3055072)
Why would any company try to compete with a low volume car? You may have got the point, but your response was seemingly a blanket statement misdirection; Honda could build a car within that $62k CAD price range that would have the potential to be better.

Think of the 86 in this scenario, we all praise the thing, it's affordable, easy to maintain thus far, reliable and handles well. All of this for various low prices, but then why don't they make a $62k Cayman killer? I mean they have the MR2 which they can base the tech off of, Toyota is the most wealthy Automotive company, and if you look at the LFA, they have the engineers.. So why don't they make the car to trump a low volume Porsche Cayman?

Trick question, none of us peasants know, but if I was to guess, it's not because the Cayman is unbeatable, it's because it would generate next to no profit.

There's 2 of me, Baby NSX/LFA dreamers, for every 100000000 Corolla, Civic, Elantra, Focus normal peasants.


They are. The Supra. Although, I question its ability to actually put up any sort of real fight. The existence of the Cayman and the Corvette at that price point make it very difficult for anyone else to compete. The only way I think the Supra stands a chance is if they engineered a lot of extra safety factor into the drivetrain like they did with the mkIV. If tuners can safely and easily add power, they might have a hit. Otherwise Porsche and Corvette are going to thrash it just like they do with everything else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3055110)
of course we are all praising the frs. its an frs forum. zoom out a little and you realize its slower than basically all of its competition to get there it took the work of two manufacturers to get there. even if we erase all the signs pointing to the difficulty of the task, what makes you think honda could do better for cheaper?


Who said anything about cheaper? VW group didn't design a car to break the top speed world record, then a faster version to retake it, and then an even faster successor to make money. It lost money but they did it to show off and generate brand excitement; something Honda or any other company could just as easily decide to do.

TorontoNat 03-08-2018 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3055028)
Debatable but within reason. My argument was in the context that Honda can't do that today for the price of a cayman, let alone less. They couldn't do it then and they can't do it now. Not to sell short what a lot of companies do but the cayman benefits from a lot of preexisting resources Porsche has.
I agree there's exactly zero chance of any company matching the cayman. 911 has it's competition, boxsters have their competition.. caymans are just in a category of their own. bmw M2, Audi TT rs, maybe a jaguar Coupe... What even is the real competition for a cayman nowdays?


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