Drifting - in Auto?
 

Hey guys.

Bought the auto because fuel economy (I get an average of 32.1 mpg) + DC traffic + no designated drivers who can drive manual + it's my daily. Also, first time with a car with paddle shifters.

A buddy is going off to a summit later and he challenged me in his tuned AE86, just for fun. I've never even considered taking an AT car sideways, but is it possible? My limited experience with drifting is in a 2nd gen RX-7 six years ago, and whenever I casually hit the tracks, I've always driven my friends' grip cars.

Yes, I realize that grip is faster than drift, but we're doing this for fun and in the spirit of the old 86. Any tips on drifting with paddle shifters?

It's a painfully bad idea in an under-powered car

Well, the original AE86 had 112 bph :-X I've seen the car sideways plenty of times.

Moto-P discusses drifting AT a bit in an earlier thread comparing the two transmissions:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=20

In my brief experience (on private property and away from curbs & obstacles) it's not difficult to break tires loose with VSC/TC fully disabled. I am NOT however experienced at drifting and so mostly just slid around a bit to see if it could. I came away fairly satisfied that, at least for now, it's capable enough to learn on when I have budget for tires + semiregular access to a place where I can develop some skill.

There are some things that you simply can't do with AT (ex: clutch kick) but those are things I would not do in any case because it's simply terrible for the car. Replacing tires is a lot different from wiping out your transmission.

I think he means drifting in an auto is a bad idea. While auto isn't the best for drifting, I highly doubt Toyobaru wouldn't have designed this car to slide even with the auto models. It'd just be plain unfair for the people who just can't own a manual.

I'm also interested in knowing how to drift with paddle shifters. I'm nearing the end of my break-in and all of my buddies are practically at my door ready to see who can drift better, even if it is an automatic.

You probably haven't seen it sideways plenty of times with an Automatic Transmission.

Drifting is more than getting a car to put the rear out. Once you break traction you need to also be able to maintain the drift through various controls - a hugely important one being the throttle.

Throwing out power-slides and drifting are 2 wildly different things.

Very true, which is why I'm asking if it's possible with paddle shifters. I imagine the only way I can achieve this is shift down + e-brake + throttle. I've seen the Toyota rep tear up the tracks with an AT but I'm curious as to what techniques he used to perform the power slides.

i saw an auto el camino beat n s15 at the formula d 2004 at infineon...just sayin. sure it was modded and had more power and had a special trans but it was auto and an el camino and beat an s15.

drift at your own risk dude youll break something eventaully

I would probably avoid the paddle shifters in most cases. Especially since they are not stationary on the column. To me, the natural thing to do is use the slap method on on the actual shifter while it's over in the manual position.

Moto-P pretty much covers all the bases otherwise....

Will the paddle shifters shift as fast as the stick shift?
I imagine when you go drift having some precise timing of the shift being important to keep yourself in the desired torque range.
(No expert so I could be be wrong but just another area of thought)

Depends on the driver. An amateur driver, especially in a drift situation, will not shift nearly as well as a professional would. Personally I drive the AT but keep it in manual at all times. I drift my AT very often and the manual makes it incredibly easy for a learning platform. I don't use the paddles but the shifter itself in the manual position as trying to use paddles on a steering wheel that is spinning this way and that is rather difficult, plus the shifter feels more natural. I can't condone any illegal means of practicing on the forums but just start simple. From what I've seen the FR-S is much like the ae86 in that to drift you have to keep it in high-revs and just power over. So take off all Stability Controls and all traction control, throw it into manual, rev it high, power over and get it slideways. It's been a really easy car for me to learn on so far.

Can someone pro just come in here and squash this dream? A low power automatic is horrific for drifting. End of story.

Bubbadrifts el camino had a three speed auto tranni with a ratchet shifter that allowed him to stay in gear and manually select his gears. Still an auto since there is no clutch. This worked because he had gobs of power from an LS1. If he didn't drifting a low powered auto would suck big time not being able to clutch kick. He was able to compensate the lack of a clutch through light weight, high power and high torque. Drifting the FR-S with an auto could be done be I bet it wouldn't be much fun. And let it be clear I'm talking about proper drifting not getting the tail out for two seconds or doing donuts in a parking lot.

Edit

I am not a pro but have been drifting for about 10 years including late night hooning and various competitions and track days.

We've already had one professional (Moto-P) say this is possible and a viable choice for learning technique in a separate thread.

Seems like you and some other folks are very invested in talking about what can and can't be done in a car you haven't driven.

If you've actually driven an AT BRZ/FR-S please correct me...

I'd like to see some people with actual experience talk about technique and not a bunch of trollish commentary from the "it can't be be done" crowd.

But please do us a favor, since you've declared it the "end of story", and go hang out in some other thread.

Okay, I'll correct you. I have driven both auto and manual version's of the FR-S. It was actually the auto version I got to test the limits of - twice.

Of course an A/T car can help you learn some extremely elementary technique but it's just not viable for actual drifting.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2h399wl.jpg

Just going to leave this right here before I put you on ignore:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3YivnuSLAI"]Club4AG's Scion FRS, Paddle Shift AT, Drift Testing - YouTube[/ame]

Is this not ”actual drifting”? I don't think anyone with AT are looking for trophies andyou making it sound like anything less isnt worth attempting smacks of elitism.

I think I jizzed in my pants.

And you're right, I'll probably use the stick instead of the paddles. I just took my car out to my parking lot (I own a huge parking lot) in the rain and did a few donuts just to test out slippage. Hard reaching the paddles while I'm steering like mad.

I was just about to say someone post Moto's drifting video. :thumbup:

i think in the 4th ken block video, he uses paddle shifters. just saying.

whats the title of Moto-P's long post that describes why he chose AT over MT?

Paddle shifters can be connected to a manual transmission, just saying.

You CAN drift with automatic but you have more control and access to more techniques ith manual.

Honestly though, I wouldn't recommend drifting anything with any tranny on a public road if you aren't experienced.

I don't plan to use it on a public road. :P Just to clarify, as I've said in my initial post, I'm taking it to a summit to goof around.

^ This. A** dragging in my FWD Civic is alot of fun to! :)

Can we talk about what happens when you mess up in an automatic? What happens when you oversteer and are suddenly going backwards. You don't have a clutch to push in to quickly go into neutral. What are the ramifications of spinning out in an automatic?

I don't have an FR-S, but I do autocross my automatic IS300. If you're spinning, you should be hard on the brakes so that you can lock all four wheels, which will be no worse on your transmission than just being stopped at a red light (engine at idle, wheels not spinning). If you don't do that, you'll stall the car when you're going backwards, and I imagine it isn't great for the torque converter or the transmission. I've stalled out a couple of times when I've spun out, and that's an awful feeling.

How was I supposed to know this 'summit' is a public road or not? :iono: I guess I jumped to a conclusion but you also didn't make that clear in the first post.

I guess it depends how you define drifting. Even in a regular pro-am competition (here anyways) that sort of driving would net you nothing but 0's and the car would be hopeless anywhere but on a tight free course like that.

So - no, that is not actual drifting. There's not a course this side of the country I can think of that an A/T FR-S could competitively drift at on any level.

Honestly - nobody needs to validate what they purchased ... AT or MT .. but it's beyond the realm of sense to argue this. I've been surrounded by drifting for years here in western Canada and never has an AT vehicle ever competed much less put on a show. There's a reason for that.

If you want to ignore me to validate your opinion as an AT owner .. oh well. 13 years of forums, do your worst.

Im manual all the way but one day someone is gonna prove it can be done. People will eat words and then there will be no choice but to close this thread.

Most people when they talk about drifting aren't talking about straight up Formula D where you go into a drift at 90+ mph and hold it for massive lengths. Most people mean the technique of drifting or just the action of it. Whether that just means being able to hold a slide around a turn, ripping the e-brake to get sideways and hold it there, or some simple power-over drifting is up to them. No this car is not Formula D ready in MT or AT, but what car is in its stock form? You've got to keep an open mind.

I'm not talking about Formula D. Most of my experience has been with DMCC / DriftWest and just plain grassroots drifting out on the West Coast here.

It's a far cry from Formula D.

Well then I have no clue what you're talking about as with the AT in manual with all nannies off I'm able to pull off some very nice drifts over here in the East Coast once the sun's down and the cops are sleeping :P

I really have no idea what you're trying to argue. Are you trying to say that those of us who bought an AT shouldn't even try to have fun with it? No one is talking about doing shows or trying to become the next Block with an AT FR-S, we just wanna play around with our buddies.

What I am saying .. and I'll say it very clearly is .. an A/T car, especially one low in power, is NOT good for drifting.

I have zero issue with people trying to do it, or wanting to experiment and have fun. All the power to them.

It's just a simple fact: it's not really drifting. It couldn't pass as it in either grassroots/fun or pro/pro-am competition. The video posted .. was not really drifting.

I don't see why people have to name drop Formula D .. Ken Block .. all this pop-culture nonsense. Drifting on a very low level is still much more involved than what a basic AT FR-S is capable of.

It's possible but you're not really going to be able to get out of the car what you could with a manual transmission. With only 200hp, you will definitely want the clutch. Using clutch control for initiating and adjusting mid-slide is a great tool to have but you won't be able to do that with an AT car.

Can you kick the rear out? Yes.
Can you hold it for a bit? Yes.
Can you negotiate an entire course? Depends, but even with a decent amount of skill, the car might prove to be a bit more of a handful and I doubt it'll be anything less than a pain in the ass to be consistent in any way.

AT might not be too bad for a really small skidpad to do small or larger circles or figure 8s, or even a small course, but if you're talking about a larger course layout where you have an initial entry, negotiate and transition through corners while varying speeds... that'll suck in an AT

MT is the way to go, especially if you're talking about drifting with the car. Having a clutch to use is key. You'll notice that the higher end competitive cars will still retain the use of clutch even though a lot of them are using sequential or dogbox transmissions.

Formula d was merely my example that an at was able to competitively drift. Nuf said. Not caring about what type or what class anyone is referring to. It is my point that at one point there was an american muscle car AT that won against an s15. Thats what im saying.

Typical street drifting? This 86? Probably not the best choice. But autos have competitively drifted.

I can see more and more that there are many salty emotional folk on here than i thought and will more carefully calculate at which level of "real" i deliver my posts. I may just become a lurker and read all the tech notes that eventually surface here cause there are far to many "waaahs"

Come on guys lets chill out. And stop acting like cast members of fast and the furious.

This at vs mt pissing match is far too juvenile for any of us. If u wanna slide then slide regardless of what gearbox you have and shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sad though, I was looking at this more as exploring the possibilities in the beginning. I had a feeling it would turn out like this.

Myself, I had no expectations for anything beyond what was illustrated in that video, and I had no delusions that the AT was capable of much more than that.
I think what is often ignored is the fact that new blood, be it naive or just lacking facts, experience, and the knowledge need to be educated.

It most certainly could have been handled in a more productive way.
Constructive rather than destructive criticism is more effective, and it keeps people coming back.....

Judging by the vid posted you CAN "drift" with an auto if that's what you want call what was happening, just like you CAN boil a pot of water with a magnifying glass. Although I wouldn't recommend either.

So an Auto FR-S putting down, say 400whp couldn't compete, simply because it's an Auto?