Explain joke or ban.




:D

He gets it!

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Itbs are nice but cosworth has a few sc kits left for 5 grand that will give you actual gains. Maybe get a t-shirt and coffee cup too lol

Ive spent less total than a turbo kit, and i can beat 91 turbo tuned twins and I'm na. Lol.
I am also gutted.
That right there, tells me a turbo kit isn't worth it. Especially if you do e85 and race, you have to build the motor so nope.

Ever thought about a build thread? :paddle:

@CSG Mike and all.

Noob question time. Ready?
If the inlet diameter and length are the same how do itb generate more power? I get responsiveness, not the power increase.

I don't have patience for it lol. I only check the forum every few times. I can list my mods.
All tomei el headers and exhaust system. 2lb battery, inlet tube, throttle body spacer, kn air filter, pullies, lw flywheel, snorkel, aluminum driveshaft, irp shifter, and gutted interior.

I don't know much about ITB IRL, but from what I can guess, you are essentially shortening the path of air to the engine substantially and thereby being able to feed the engine more air at high RPM (at the expense of maybe losing torque down low). Longer intake tracts usually benefit torque (search for the Crawford Power Blocks for a better idea) at the expense of higher RPM power.Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Resonance frequencies can cause funky thinks to happen.

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Checking in from over the pond. This has seriously piqued my interest, the Greddy kit in particular. I already have an Ecutek licence and there's a Ecutek tuner about 45 mins from me... ITBs is about the only thing I've never done to a car, I'm not chasing numbers, just looking for a nice noise and to tick a box on the bucket list. :D Any performance increase is a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

That said, I'm a realist. I don't really know much about ITBs or how this might effect the general usage of the car. More air means more fuel so mileage is going to take a hit yes. But what about sticky throttle in cold weather? Heard that can be an issue if there isn't coolant running around the TBs and you live somewhere that gets near freezing temps. My car is a daily and in the UK we do get some interesting weather/seasons but nothing to the extremes that you might see in say, Canada. So something to be wary of or am I overthinking it?

Anyhoo I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread, hope to see some numbers and some more info soon. :)

Which site sells them for 5k?

Curious myself as to how ITBs would increase any torque/hp. I can see if runner lengths where shorter shifting power higher for higher peak number but,
From my understanding stock manifold and throttle body are both more then high enough flowing that increasing diameter on either has no benefit, as well as the runner length seems to already be optimized for top end power so much so that some people opt to use manifold spacers effectively increasing runner length to slightly shift peak power down.

So unless you are building the head with cams, valves, and springs to rev to 8k+ and maybe getting an ace 150header for a high revving NA beast. Not sure decreasing intake runner length would have any positive effect.

Seems like you are essentially paying 2,000$ + tuning costs for slightly quicker throttle response and the sound associated from ITBs.

But I would love to be proven wrong. If this shows a solid 10whp increase from at least 4500-7500rpm then I am sold. Just don’t see how it’s possible.

Directly through cosworth

Benefits would probably include throttle response and more mid range torque.


Most of these systems will be used with some sort of manifold so any runner length tuning effects would probably be minimized.


If this gives a flatter torque curve with peaks of 180ftlbs or close it would definitely, IMO, be worth it.


I would love to see if there are any HP gains to be had with Cams and these ITB's.

How would this give more mid range? Unless the runner lengths where much longer and then sacrificed top end power essentially similar to intake manifold spacers.

I just don’t see or maybe I don’t understand the theory behind why it would make anymore power anywhere, unless like I mentioned the runner lengths where longer for lower rpm power or shorter for top end power.

The stock manifold and throttle body have already been proven to flow more then enough air.

Seems rather expensive for slightly better throttle response and the ITB sound.

But again please prove me wrong so I have something to throw my money away on!

Look at what itbs do on most other engines. On LS engines it gets rid of a weird 3500ishrpm torque dip on big cam engines. I think the little common plenum will negate the benefits but once they out trumpets on it you'll see gains.

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Other platforms are not this platform. What works for one might not work for another.

Seems like on the other applications of ITBs on other platforms they saw gains because the stock manifold and or throttle body did not flow sufficient enough (ours already does)

or they are running with trumpets or very short runners, which again seems like it is just changing to shorter runners for shifting the power band up.

I’m just trying to see and understand the theory or physics behind why going from one throttle body (already bigger then needed) to four individual TBs would inherently in and of itself even when “tuned properly” would give any benefit other then sound and maybe initial throttle response.

And with that said the oem intake manifold usually shows the best mid-range. Itbs usually make more midrange than oem. It's all speculation right now until they release Dyno sheets. It might lose 40hp and gain 150tq it also might do nothing lol

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Intake velocity and more efficient air flow distribution between cylinders comes to mind.



Stock manifolds/Single Throttle body is still prone to mal-distribution and reversion. :iono:

It functions as a velocity stack, and offers less restriction done properly.

The OEM TB and accessories are not choke points for this car, at all.

For example, compare our OEM TB to a S2000 TB; the S2000 is way, WAY smaller.

Those are some of the thoughts I had however.
The trumpets/velocity stacks makes sense, but does the GReddy system utilize this? Once the ITBs are all open it seems like it is functioning pretty much the same as a normal manifold just different runner lengths for shifting power band not really increasing.

Also If the stock system flows more then enough air already, would it matter if some cylinders had more access to air then others if none are still getting less then they utilize? Which seems to be the case if larger TBs and bigger manifolds haven’t shown any gains.

There's more to tuning ITBs for gains with a modern engine that offers much more permutations in how the power is generated, compared to an old engine where you just go WOT for power.

can flow =/= does flow, just how a 80mm exhaust doesnt offer gains over a 63mm exhaust, on a stock car.


The unfortunate part of all this testing is that it's taking far longer than expected; it seems I will not have ITBs on my car for SLB this year :(

I've never once heard of ITB tuning that goes as planned.



I imagine Ecuteks flash tuning doesn't help with the speed. I guess there's a reason the Zerobreau went Motec.


Will you be running the manifold style adapter that Greddy provided?
Will you try open stacks/individual filters and or dyno with different stack lengths?



Still can't wait to see the results, whatever they may be.

It's not that it's not going as expected, but that we're learning and discovering far more than expected, which results in more ideas that need to be tested before the my ITBs come off of the loaner NA test mule CSG provided for NA testing.

You're right; Ecutek definitely doesnt hurt with speed, although we know some ways to slightly mitigate that.

Heya, just wondering if NA testing with ITBs is still a thing or not, as this thread hasn't been active for awhile now :S

The crews at CSG and Delicious Tuning are both still working on NA applications. Understand that engineering is an iterative process that requires time, energy, and money.

If you want to make a comparison, look at the Honda K-series, which has been out since 2001. Tuners and engineers didn't make substantial NA power out of them until the 2010's. And that's in spite of the fact that there was much greater demand because Honda stuck them in all of their most popular models (Civic, RSX/Integra, CR-V, Accord).

Compared to our cars, we're dealing with an engine that's found in literally one vehicle that's sold in very low volume, to a market that doesn't really have deep pockets to begin with. It's going to be a slow-moving process to say the least.

I'm just glad there are tuners out there who are continuing to spend time and money to develop these parts despite the fact that they'll likely never see a big return from their efforts. AND they're being transparent about the process.

Right now this is a hype thread... if csg and their tuner aren't going to follow up they should say so instead of letting the hype monster 5000 spin it's wheels.


I've found one guy with the sard unit and he said it made big mid-range gains. Matt Busby at national corvette museum is putting the GReddy set on his BRZ track car now and from what I've seen in his posts about it the instructions are garbage and he's had to make runs to the hardware store for missing bolts from the kit.

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For those curious about Matt's experience with the GReddy units. He's been posting to his Instagram https://www.instagram.com/the.matt.b...=103okhbjkk5v7

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How is it hype when both people that have them up and running are making very decent mid range hp/tq bumps?


I think people are mistaking these for FI alternatives. ITB's are never big power-getters. The only time I've seen them make huge power numbers are on motors where the valvetrain/heads are built to the point where it starts out flowing traditional manifolds or had trash manifolds to begin with.

this is very true... on a stock motor there will be literally 0 power gains at the top of the powerband, however from 2k-6k there will be a much meatier powerband as the air is able to flow in without restriction to 4 different throttle bodies directly to the intake ports of the motor.

there are 2 setups that will benefit greatly from this, built high compression motor that redlines at 8k+ with cams and uses e85... the e85 allows the motor to run cooler and with the increase of air at lower RPMs and the more aggressive cams and high redline will widen the spread of the ITB midrange gains, but even then you wont get any "peak gains" over say a ported 2017 manifold and a grams throttle body.

forced induction, having the 4 throttle bodies with a turbo and e85 with allow the compressed air to flow in at an even greater rate and colder due to the e85 than the stock plastic manifold and pump gas. i think that jade_350z has a dyno showing this on his car with the gt2867r kit as well... gushi also ran his car with the itb and t518z set up but both only used pump gas.

if someone buys a stock frs and throws these one and expects to get their moneys worth, they will be severely let down... if you tie in the rest of the mods to actually use the ability for the ITBs to be put to use... then it can be worth while.

Everyone is looking for the next big na power mod.

Less restriction? What are the flowbench numbers of the stock manifold?
Keep in mind now, the engine will be ingesting measurably warmer air.

Not necessarily, the benefits of ITB's can still be had with a plenum attached.



It's hard to tell but there have been Cam threads that show the gains were minimized due to flow restrictions in the intake manifold.

Me! It's always nice when an NA beats a force induction car 😎

CFm - after my intake manifold extrude honing.
Runner before after
1. 431 472
2. 433 474
3. 430 471
4. 427 468

Hope this helps

It does when we have flow numbers for these ITBs, and the heads.

The (aged) NA motor being used for testing failed while exploring high RPM gains. A new OEM engine is being sourced to continue testing.

RIP

Pouring a beer out for our dead hommie.

What RPMs are we talking about here? The usual 7,800 or did you guys push it past 8,000?

I'm actually quite impressed with the delta between the factory runners. Quite a well made unit, as one would assume something N/A at over 100hp/L would need to be.