Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Engine, Exhaust, Transmission (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   The Ultimate FA20 ITB thread. (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125122)

StraightOuttaCanadaEh 10-17-2018 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristor (Post 3145614)
I'm really looking forward to the results of this testing. I'm not interested in making monster power, and I'm more focused on linear power delivery and throttle response. My initial plan was to eventually go for a supercharger, but I'd much much prefer to stay NA if possible. If it's doable to get to 230-240whp NA without an engine rebuild, I'm in for it and the cost isn't really an issue.



It'd be very interesting to build the heads with ITBs and get it high revving as well... although I think oiling would be an issue. Just imagine the sound of a 9000rpm boxer with ITBs though, worth it just to hear that exiting a corner at the track.
One guy on IG (@zerobreau) with ITBs did 206 whp (144 whp baseline) on 91 pump gas. That's 91 canadian, which ain't so hot

norcalpb 10-17-2018 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh (Post 3145620)
One guy on IG (@zerobreau) with ITBs did 206 whp (144 whp baseline) on 91 pump gas. That's 91 canadian, which ain't so hot
What’s is his Instagram name?

StraightOuttaCanadaEh 10-17-2018 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalpb (Post 3145623)
What’s is his Instagram name?
@zerobreau

NoHaveMSG 10-17-2018 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh (Post 3145620)
One guy on IG (@zerobreau) with ITBs did 206 whp (144 whp baseline) on 91 pump gas. That's 91 canadian, which ain't so hot
As much as I want to believe that I am pretty skeptical of those numbers. From what I read the baseline and the ITB dyno where not done on the same machine, though I could be mistaken.

StraightOuttaCanadaEh 10-18-2018 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3145636)
As much as I want to believe that I am pretty skeptical of those numbers. From what I read the baseline and the ITB dyno where not done on the same machine, though I could be mistaken.
He's got a Nameless catless header as well. As for the dyno, they did the baseline on the old one but this tune on the new one. Same shop, different dyno, and the shop said the new one reads lower than the last one. So combined with the header it's an increase of at least 60 whp apparently.

Tokay444 10-18-2018 11:48 AM
Sounds like shitty dyno operation/calibration is a factor here.

PulsarBeeerz 10-18-2018 03:55 PM
He seems to have won his time attack class again so the shitty dyno calibration wasn't too much of a factor.lol

Tokay444 10-18-2018 04:55 PM
It certainly seems he is making more power. How much more is anyone's guess at this point, knowing what we know.

Lantanafrs2 10-18-2018 09:58 PM
I've never heard anybody admit to using an optimistic dyno

CSG Mike 10-19-2018 02:59 AM
Believe me, I want these to make serious gains more than anyone, but without apples to apples data like what I'm (slowly) getting done with a lot of help, it's like comparing two different dynos from two different cars and facilities, and I think the gains shown on the other car are a bit too much.

If I'm wrong with that assumption, then hey, that means more power for everyone who decides to go the ITB route! Win-win; that's actually the best case result!

NoHaveMSG 10-19-2018 12:27 PM
I have the nameless setup as well and even if it was responsible for 2/3 of those gains that is BS. His final dyno number seems a little high but it's the baseline that is suspiciously low to me. That is by far the lowest whp figure I have seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh (Post 3145661)
He's got a Nameless catless header as well. As for the dyno, they did the baseline on the old one but this tune on the new one. Same shop, different dyno, and the shop said the new one reads lower than the last one. So combined with the header it's an increase of at least 60 whp apparently.
Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

NoHaveMSG 10-19-2018 12:29 PM
Correlating Dyno numbers with lapping results is like saying because I have a lap I am good at petting cats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz (Post 3145847)
He seems to have won his time attack class again so the shitty dyno calibration wasn't too much of a factor.lol
Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

Dr. BRZ 10-19-2018 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3146147)
I have the nameless setup as well and even if it was responsible for 2/3 of those gains that is BS. His final dyno number seems a little high but it's the baseline that is suspiciously low to me. That is by far the lowest whp figure I have seen.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
It depends if his car is auto or stick. The manual dynos at 165whp and the auto dynos around 145whp so could it be, his twin is an auto?

PulsarBeeerz 10-19-2018 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3146149)
Correlating Dyno numbers with lapping results is like saying because I have a lap I am good at petting cats.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
That's cool.

Tristor 10-19-2018 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. BRZ (Post 3146162)
It depends if his car is auto or stick. The manual dynos at 165whp and the auto dynos around 145whp so could it be, his twin is an auto?

Where have you seen that? All the data I've seen indicates that the only performance differential between the manual and the auto is due to final drive gearing. This would affect the torque output shown on a chassis dyno, so I suppose it could show a different in horsepower based on that, but it shouldn't really create a significant affect. The transmission itself accounts for only a small portion of drivetrain loss.

Jaden 10-19-2018 09:46 PM
No he's full of shit...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristor (Post 3146182)
Where have you seen that? All the data I've seen indicates that the only performance differential between the manual and the auto is due to final drive gearing. This would affect the torque output shown on a chassis dyno, so I suppose it could show a different in horsepower based on that, but it shouldn't really create a significant affect. The transmission itself accounts for only a small portion of drivetrain loss.
The difference in dyno results is mainly between a mustang dyno (heartbreak) and a dynojet.

Mustang's typically show about 145-150 and dynojets between 165-170 for a baseline.

Dynojets are more likely a more accurate representation based on what driveline losses SHOULD be from BHP ratings, but for some reason people like mustang dynos for gain comparisons and think that for showing gains, they're more accurate.

Go figure...

If he got 206 whp from a mustang dyno, that's pretty significant for 91 octane (especially canadian 91) and could be showing good gains for ITBs.


Jaden

StraightOuttaCanadaEh 10-19-2018 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden (Post 3146437)
The difference in dyno results is mainly between a mustang dyno (heartbreak) and a dynojet.

Mustang's typically show about 145-150 and dynojets between 165-170 for a baseline.

Dynojets are more likely a more accurate representation based on what driveline losses SHOULD be from BHP ratings, but for some reason people like mustang dynos for gain comparisons and think that for showing gains, they're more accurate.

Go figure...

If he got 206 whp from a mustang dyno, that's pretty significant for 91 octane (especially canadian 91) and could be showing good gains for ITBs.


Jaden
this is significant. One tuner mentioned the knock correction on canadian 94 was higher than on US 91

chaoskaze 10-20-2018 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh (Post 3146455)
this is significant. One tuner mentioned the knock correction on canadian 94 was higher than on US 91
That's true but i also thought that's cause ..... nobody puts 94 in their car lol.... so they are usually sitting there for a long time

StraightOuttaCanadaEh 10-20-2018 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoskaze (Post 3146628)
That's true but i also thought that's cause ..... nobody puts 94 in their car lol.... so they are usually sitting there for a long time
Toronto gas stations are fairly busy so turnaround must be good

Tokay444 10-23-2018 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoskaze (Post 3146628)
That's true but i also thought that's cause ..... nobody puts 94 in their car lol.... so they are usually sitting there for a long time
I've never put anything BUT 94 in mine.
Extensive tuning experience on boosted DI motors has proven it to be the most knock resitent available to me.

CSG Mike 10-23-2018 07:25 PM
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw4At62nqOw[/ame]

Dr. BRZ 10-23-2018 08:03 PM
Crazy talk here but wouldn't it be more beneficial if the piping at the end of the itb connected to the stock air box and a snorkel was connected to the airbox?

Cubix 10-23-2018 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. BRZ (Post 3147578)
Crazy talk here but wouldn't it be more beneficial if the piping at the end of the itb connected to the stock air box and a snorkel was connected to the airbox?
Wouldn't it be even more beneficial just to have all 4 out in the open? Or would that not work because of the MAF sensor

Lantanafrs2 10-23-2018 08:51 PM
Those things really honk. Lol

SuperTom 10-23-2018 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. BRZ (Post 3147578)
Crazy talk here but wouldn't it be more beneficial if the piping at the end of the itb connected to the stock air box and a snorkel was connected to the airbox?


That's what im thinking wouldn't the same logic about sucking in hot air apply

PuslarBrrrz 10-24-2018 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. BRZ (Post 3147578)
Crazy talk here but wouldn't it be more beneficial if the piping at the end of the itb connected to the stock air box and a snorkel was connected to the airbox?



It was at first, they are just trying different setups during testing. Plus people want to hear the ITB sound so bad and you cant with the stock air box.

gtengr 10-24-2018 12:58 PM
Nice! The sound reminds me of E46 M3 CSL airbox.

CounterSpace Garage 10-25-2018 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuslarBrrrz (Post 3147807)
It was at first, they are just trying different setups during testing. Plus people want to hear the ITB sound so bad and you cant with the stock air box.
It literally sounds stock with the airbox. Sound clips were requested and sound clips were delivered. :cheers:

Roadcone 10-25-2018 04:24 PM
dyno results or ban

Lantanafrs2 10-25-2018 04:33 PM
Ban what?

Roadcone 10-25-2018 04:34 PM
Everyone affiliated with CSG. Posting videos on a Dyno but no results!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 (Post 3148388)
Ban what?
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Lantanafrs2 10-25-2018 04:37 PM
They were just responding to a request for sound clips. I don't think it was running right in that video.

Roadcone 10-25-2018 04:38 PM
I'm sure they slapped it on made that one pull and pulled it off the Dyno. Also way to take a forum post 100% literal. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 (Post 3148393)
They were just responding to a request for sound clips. I don't think it was running right in that video.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Lantanafrs2 10-25-2018 04:41 PM
Lol, my next move is a turbo anyways. This na business is pointless imo. Car will be quicker but not enough to pull on the suv in the rearview mirror lol

Roadcone 10-25-2018 04:42 PM
Sell it and buy a c5. You'll save a bunch of money and be faster than your hotrodded 86.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 (Post 3148396)
Lol, my next move is a turbo anyways. This na business is pointless imo. Car will be quicker but not enough to pull on the suv in the rearview mirror lol
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

SuperTom 10-25-2018 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadcone (Post 3148389)
Everyone affiliated with CSG. Posting videos on a Dyno but no results!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


This is a brand new product im sure they are doing a lot of testing and tuning before putting any #'s out there

Roadcone 10-25-2018 05:46 PM
I say we ban you too for not understanding a forum joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTom (Post 3148431)
This is a brand new product im sure they are doing a lot of testing and tuning before putting any #'s out there
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

SuperTom 10-25-2018 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadcone (Post 3148397)
Sell it and buy a c5. You'll save a bunch of money and be faster than your hotrodded 86.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


that is true though. Although I drive my lightened 86 more with more fun handling and better mpg

SuperTom 10-25-2018 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadcone (Post 3148432)
I say we ban you too for not understanding a forum joke.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


if im not the only person who didn't get your "joke" does that make me wrong

Roadcone 10-25-2018 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTom (Post 3148434)
if im the only person who didn't get your "joke" does that make me wrong
Does nobody remember "x or ban" on forums?!?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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