206 is probably 180whp give or take. You'd have to know how much the header/tune combo was worth in order to delineate anything.

I think this graph is WHP though.

Does this guy have a build thread? if you know em convince this guy to make one on here!

That torque/torque curve though!


I wonder if her can get more power by changing up the stack length. They look awfully short.

Yeah I also wonder if you can get by with shorter filters without cutting the hood.

Waiting to see a setup with this and headers with e85

No he doesn't have one, I think he said on his IG has tried to get on the forum several times but always gets log in issues. He has more pictures of the build on Instagram, pretty friendly too and he does plan to run E85 at some point. Still 60whp over stock on 91 isn't a bad result.

If his result are repeatable ill be in the market for some ITBs lol - thats a 20-30whp gain over just headers yeah? I think on s2ks ITBs get you 10-20 whp

It appears so! But its not a cheap setup at all. I forgot to add he is running a MotecM150 standalone because he opted not to run a common plenum with a MAF. Idk if Ecutec could handle his setup

The SARD ITB is the cost of a lower end turbo, still worth it to me if 220-230 ish whp is attainable with e85. I don't think anyone has posted numbers of an N/A ITB setup with one of their plenums yet?

On 91 that would be nice but we'll have to find out more.

178 torque sounds too high to be a wheel number.

It does sound high. He has a nameless long tube header on that also though.
So if its not WHP the ITBs would have made little or nothing considering the car is supposed to come from the factory with 200 at the crank already he would have gained 4 whp with headers ITBs and custom tune on a stand alone ecu...

Why they wouldn't just publish what it made at the hub is beyond me. That's the actual number measured, and the only number that matters.

I've been going back and forth with the owner to get him to post his build here, but he's claimed that something's wrong with his account. I'm @donkielbasa in that thread

If you go a few of his posts back, he has a stock dyno that read 144whp. Regardless of what the final number was, a 60whp increase over stock is shocking.

If you look at where that term was grabbed from, it's the UI of the dyno software that said "engine power T WC", no one is posting claiming "engine power"

https://i.imgur.com/UV4Y6Yf.jpg

Those results only make me more excited to finish my own testing!

144whp sounds pretty low to me for a stock kouki motor. Most i've seen are at around 170. Might be heart break dyno. 60 over 170 puts it at around 230whp before any head work or cams. That's very impressive.



Also that torque number is totally believable, a healthy bump is well within the benefits of a ITB's. I do wonder why power and torque start to taper at ~6800. What's restricting it? Cams? Head flow? Runner length?

Generally speaking, smaller trumpets = more low end gains, at the cost of high end gains. Likewise, larger trumpets = more high end gains, at the cost of low end gains.

These trumpets are on the smaller end for our displacement, so I would expect to see a healthy midrange boost, that chokes up top.

FINISH IT! My pockets are burning.. I've been waiting for some real results and this makes me really excited!

Perhaps SARD will release an N/A version of this kit down the road without the surge tank?

Are you sure you don’t have the two reversed?

I know to calculate second and third harmonic pulses you need to account for runner length which is bell mouth to the valve seat. I’m not completely sure about the fa20/boxer motors but Honda and Toyota runners in the head portion were pretty short so to boost mid/low range power you had to run decently long stacks.

Kinda like how BPB lengthen the intake to shift power lower.

Length =/= diameter. I'm referring to diameter!

If I am correct, on one of his IG post, I think he did mention it was a new dyno that they used when tuning the ITB's where as the stock numbers were on the old dyno. Can't be too sure that the gains are that accurate imo.

http://i67.tinypic.com/1zd3lg0.png

No biggie, it's normal for forum members to draw conclusions from different dynos numbers without baseline :)

This looks exciting! It's fun to see a car actually running these NA. They sound FANTASTIC. I'm interested to hear how they feel, regardless of power. I hope they get their forum user working, we need answers! :happyanim:

unless the baseline was taken the same day it is pretty useless anyways, temp, humidity, etc will make the baseline useless as well.

At very least having stock baseline is single biggest variable elimination to roughly/remotely add some comparison ground to compare relative gains against it, instead of marking all of dyno results out there as completely unusuable. Reducing differences between eg. +/-30% to eg. +/-5to10%. "Better then nothing".

I commented on his post on IG and he said the most expensive part was the Motec. He mentioned that the price for the build was as much as a top end turbo kit or even a swap. But then again, he's planning to use it as a track car only. If I got this upgrade, I would need to know that the car would still be driveable in the winter

The guy isn't hard to get a hold of on IG, everyone here could just message him there or be snarky in his comments section. haha

I completely missed that comment, my mistake. In that case there's no way to tell if the ITB's do anything

Glad to hear you're still working on it. I seem to remember that progress was slow mostly due to lack of interest from customers to pony up the cash for an unproven kit.

Not that, as much as I'm doing the testing personally and paying for all expenses out of pocket, on two different vehicles.

All in all, total expenses will easily be in excess of 10k. I'll recoup some of it from selling one of the sets of ITBs, but anything spent on labor (tuning, multiple installs/uninstalls) is just a sunk cost.

It's no different from me doing a lot of personal testing with various parts on the markets, such as brake pads, dampers, etc. I'm not being compensated or paid to do any of this testing; I do it because this platform is within my realm of affordability and I know what I personally want out of the platform, and blazing the trail myself is the only way to truly get the results I want.

An example of this is why I still don't have a BBK on my car; I know what the proven solutions are, and know that they are cost effective, but I want a specific feel and level of control out of the brake pedal, and have to work around the stock master/slave cylinder on the car to keep it streetable. I keep a log of everything I've purchased for the car, and I'm at 36 sets of brake pads for the car so far. Each set of pads costs anywhere between 195 and 758 per axle.

I wish I were paid to do this level of development for this platform; I could easily speed up the testing 5-8x with a big budget.

I do this type of testing and validation for many teams/OEMs/manufacturers that have budgets 3-7 zeros larger than mine, and the results speak for themselves. The ideology and methodology from that testing and my personal testing does not change, only the budget and the according timeline.

I do get a generous amount of help from many parties, who donate their facilities, time, assets, and knowledge, to ensure my testing is done to my satisfaction, but none of them are throwing dollars at my personal program.

Fair enough, your efforts and information are appreciated :thumbsup:

Just here lurking and glad there is someone like @CSG Mike doing all this testing, getting all the information, and answering questions that we have about the ITB kits.

Has anyone got their hands on the Greddy ITB kit or seen any numbers for it?

Bump for images

I'm really looking forward to the results of this testing. I'm not interested in making monster power, and I'm more focused on linear power delivery and throttle response. My initial plan was to eventually go for a supercharger, but I'd much much prefer to stay NA if possible. If it's doable to get to 230-240whp NA without an engine rebuild, I'm in for it and the cost isn't really an issue.



It'd be very interesting to build the heads with ITBs and get it high revving as well... although I think oiling would be an issue. Just imagine the sound of a 9000rpm boxer with ITBs though, worth it just to hear that exiting a corner at the track.

Not gonna happen.