Throw Out Bearing Blues
 

Hi everyone,

I'm almost positive my throw out bearing is on its way out. I knew it would come eventually as I rolled the dice on buying a MY 13, just a bit sooner than I would like (36k miles). Symptoms I'm having are a light grinding noise from something spinning in the transmission area. I can feel a light vibration on the clutch pedal as well, but I'm very nice to my clutch and feels like it has a good amount of life left, so I don't feel that's the culprit. @Tcoat posted this vid on another TOB thread and it's exactly the noise I'm hearing:

https://youtu.be/UDxwhMKsYsE

I had already gathered a bit of research far ahead of encountering the issue, and from what I remember:

1. The throw out bearing that plagues MY 13 - 14 is the result of an insufficient heat capacity in the lubricant. Over time, it breaks down causing the bearing to heat up and "grenade" in your transmission.

2. Dealerships more often than not will not honor this under any warranty work, especially if the 3yr/30k mile one is up. However, I've read cases where some people got lucky. Any tips for getting the dealership to play nice other than being polite to them? Does printing out all these TOB forum posts, links to vids, etc. help at all?

3. Like an idiot, I gave in to buying Toyota's "Elite Protection Plan." From what I can gather reading this, they won't consider it warranty work if the part is beginning to fail. However, "Mechanical Failure" is considered under warranty, so I take it if the part grenades while I'm driving and leaves me stranded, they would consider that under warranty? Anyone have experience with this plan in regard to TOB?

4. Thanks to you forum gods, I already know that there is a NEW TOB part which SHOULD work better to prevent this failure from happening again. And I've also already learned that while I'm at it, I might as well also replace the clutch fork and possibly the clutch itself. And while I do think the clutch has a good bit of life in it, I went ahead and ordered all these parts already and they should all get here by the end of the week. I'm not sure how the previous owner treated the clutch, so why not? By what I saw on this video below, this guy also says to change the input shaft and flywheel. Now I can see the logic behind the input shaft being scorched, but I never heard of anyone on here getting that replaced along with the TOB as well. Anyone have input on this? As for the flywheel, it looks completely clean to me, I don't see resurfacing being THAT difficult of a job and got the vibe this guy was just selling more parts. Please let me know if I need to purchase either or both of these now.

https://youtu.be/jE7UpbICXtQ

5. My plan is to have Toyota diagnose the problem and tell me if it falls under warranty, but I'm fairly certain it's early signs of the TOB. If they do consider it under warranty, I'll gladly let them change it. If not, I might just pay the diagnosis fee, take the parts I ordered and find a reputable shop that has done this job before. I'm only just now looking into this and getting ready to call it a night before I dive deeper into the forums, so if anyone has any suggestions for the Greater Los Angeles / San Gabriel Valley area (I live in Whittier), please shoot some my way.

6. If there's anything I left out regarding the TOB issue that I should be aware of, let me know. Trying to dig my trenches before the grenade blows.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Well, hello, Beachin86 .....:)

Too bad if in fact your car's TOB may be acting up.

It sounds like you have researched and thought out this situation.

I don't have anything to add except if the TOB is bad, I hope your warranty covers it.

Oh, BTW, Bubba says that if they won't cover the TOB under the warranty until it blows up, just take the car around the block, park it, set the emergency brake, put it into 3rd gear, rev it up to about 6,000 rpms and slowly let out on the clutch. Repeat until the engine spins freely, in gear, with the clutch out.

After it cools down, call the warranty people and tell them you have a claim.

Seriously, good luck.


humfrz & Bubba

Just print the TSB off and take it in . It states the work will be done under warranty (if still in the warranty conditions). The people that had issues getting it done were before the TSB came out or like me were well beyond the date/mileage.

And to add to what Tcot is saying. The TSB was released in 2017 so yeah, the majority of threads you read are before this TSB was released. I think you would have no problem getting it handled under warranty, especially if you go in there saying you read there was a TSB on it. If they argue, pull a printed copy out of your pocket.

why order all these parts IF you still havent sorted out a possible solution with a dealer.

frustrating a 40 dollar part ultimately cost several hundy to replace if dealer doesnt warrant the faulty bearing. many people have reported their disc material was still good @ 70/80/90K miles barring standing burnouts and crazy clutch drops.

Yes. If the TOB is just noisy then the rest of the parts will still be fine. If it blows however it ain't pretty! There will be zero doubt if it blows since you will hear, feel, smell and even taste the results. I still wake up in a cold sweat.


https://shootmerightnow.files.wordpr...keupscared.gif

Do you have a good relationship with your local dealer?

I got mine fully covered under warranty, but mine is a Subaru, and I'm in Canada, so a few differences there. I was not expecting anything to be covered (even a friend of mine who was a former Subaru technician told me to brace for the worst), but lo and behold my dealer covered it in it's entirety. I think a huge factor was that I had serviced at that dealer religiously since day one, and was on a first-name basis with the Fixed Operations Manager, so he may have pulled some strings in my favour to get it covered.

It never hurts to try. Good luck!

Yeah my TOB is pretty well shot too and I'm trying to figure out how to get it covered under the extended Subaru Gold Plan my car has. It's going in on Tuesday morning to have the steering shaft assembly replaced under warranty and this would be a good time to get it done, car has 93k on it and the warranty ends at 100k. It only squeals when it's cold so I'm thinking I should leave it there overnight with the keys in the lock box then it will make ugly noises when they start it in the morning. Maybe, just maybe since they're already getting paid out on one warranty they'll cover a second at the same time :iono: I'd even pay them for the disk and pressure plate and maybe even resurfacing the flywheel if they'll cover the labor and put in the new TOB. I figure it's worth a try...

The issue with this is that it's now 2018, the car is a 2013, and I'm JUST over the 36k (36.6). So, fingers crossed.

Simple answer: I don't have the time to deal with dealer shenanigans. I'm already prepared for them to say it isn't covered, and in that case I'll have them put the tranny back together and I'll take it elsewhere to prevent my wallet from getting raped. I also don't want to have to pay to have the tranny opened several times to put a few parts in when I can do it all in one go. Again, just saving myself the time.

Unfortunately I have practically no relationship to my dealer, good or bad. I only went there to buy the car and never went back for any maintenance. All it's needed so far are fluid swaps and I'm happy to do those myself and save the $400 dealer charge. This will be my first experience dealing with their service department, and I'm praying it's a good one.


Looks like we're both having ours replaced around the same time. I have an appointment for Monday. Let's trade stories when it's all done. Hopefully they end happily ever after and not in horror. haha.

Ya that could be a problem. My dealer said they could have snuck it through if I had been a bit closer to 36K but at 100K they wouldn't even try. Besides it would only have covered the bearing itself and not all the damage that happened when the bearing went so it wasn't worth the fight.

Can anyone who had the TOB replaced tell me if you also replaced the Input Shaft as well? I saw one post where it was just lubed up when the new TOB was installed, but according to the second youtube link in my first post, it SHOULD be replaced to help prevent the new TOB from going bad. I'm guessing once it grenades it's best to change it, but if it hasn't gotten that far yet, maybe I'll be safe without it?

Not the imput shaft that need to be replace. If you damaged that you have way bigger issues. There is a solid housing that the bearing slides over which covers the input shaft ( @Ultramaroon help, I can not think of the proper name) that is what get's damaged. If the bearing isn't bad you should be fine just cleaning it up. If the bearing goes it will be toast. Mine was bad since the bearing completely blew.

I've both heard and called it different things. Service manual calls it the "transmission front cover." I've finally settled on calling it the "quill" because that's what the internet seems to like the most.

It is called a front cover on my service sheet.

Okay that helps. Thanks for the input guys. I'm taking it in on Monday and will post here with an update.

Mine didn't need it when I replaced my TOB. I didn't even notice that piece was modular until I saw Tcoat's picture. That is very good to know for future reference. I looked up the price of that piece and it's only $56. It even includes a bearing for input shaft.

SU00303853

Get it replaced. I needed a whole new clutch fork + ToB, then when my transmission was still grinding going to 4th/5th gear a brand new transmission. Had to take it to a different dealer than the one I bought it from, since the first one also "fixed" my wiring harness with duct tape & I needed that replaced as well...

Allright. Took the car in, tried to show them the TSB but they didn't want to look at it and insisted on their diagnosis to determine what the issue was. I think this is just because at dealers you have to deal with the people at the counter rather than the mechanics, but whatever. $150 for that.

I get a free shuttle home and they call me back later saying it is indeed the throw out bearing, and I'm out of warranty, so it won't be covered. I bring up the "Elite Protection Plan" to see if what I felt I was suckered into would help at all. Apparently it's a third-party warranty and not Toyota's, or something along those lines as she didn't seem aware of what I was talking about. Anyway, she calls back to tell me not only will that cover the TOB, it'll also cover the "cover" and labor cost. The only thing it wouldn't cover was the clutch.

So I point out that there's a brand new OEM replacement clutch along with a clutch fork sitting in my trunk and asked if they could use that instead of theirs. I was happy to hear a yes to the clutch, but a no to the clutch fork since it apparently isn't worn out to need replacing. Fine. I pay their $150 diagnosis fee and $50 deductible for my Elite warranty and will get the car back tomorrow.

Whew, I feel like I dodged a bullet on this one haha.

Allright, picked it up last night and the clutch is buttery smooth. So much so that I'm not even sure if there's a clutch in there. haha. One thing I'm noticing now is when I press the clutch pedal in, there's a slight metal rubbing sound, almost like two metal poles sliding against each other. Is that normal? Is it possible the mechanic didn't lube up the input shaft before putting the TOB back on? Not sure if I should be concerned or not at this point knowing the new parts are in.

Ya I was floored about how smooth it was again after it was fixed. It comes on so slowly that you don't even notice the change until it is back to what it is supposed to be.
If it is the rubbing sound I think you mean it is normal but was masked by the bad TOB.

The sound went away. I think it was just the new TOB sliding on the shaft it sits on. I guess the grease just needed time to spread evenly or wear in a little.

One thing that I found extremely annoying was that I was slightly burning the new clutch almost every time I would engage it, just because I can't tell where the bite point is anymore. I removed the clutch assist spring last night and no more burning. I've known about the spring for a while but just never took the time to remove it. Now I know exactly where the bite point is. Feels great to finally have some feedback in the clutch. Before I could actually rest my foot on the pedal (I know, bad habit), but I knew it wasn't engaging at all. Now it's so sensitive, as soon as my foot touches it I can feel it beginning to engage. I might get an adjustable aftermarket spring if possible just so I have some peace of mind that the pedal is all the way up when it's not being used. So far I've tested having my foot under it (slightly pulling the pedal towards me) while driving to see if there's any vibration but it doesn't feel like it. It's just really sensitive now if there's any weight on it.

All in all, I'm very happy with the new parts and the minimal price I paid to have them installed. :happyanim:

I am going to pull the spring in the... umm... spring. I may even go to the extreme of doing Ultra's slave change. It is sad but I came to really like the clutch feel with the bad bearing and now want to replicate that.


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390

Record the video of the noise in the morning from multiple position of the car near engine bay, bring the tsb to them to have them do the inspection, pay the deductible of gold warranty.

I got this done july of last year.


*i had 3 videos & was able to get the service adviser to say he hear it too when i had the car there. manager said he didn't hear it but that's their job to say no first before inspection. The squeal is usually the loudest from near underneath passenger side wheel so record there too

Thanks, but it's not a squeal at all or even the slight whirring/grinding noise I had before. It just sounds like two very smooth pieces of metal making contact and sliding. If you put a ring on a metallic pen and let it slide around, it sounds similar to what I was getting. But it seems to have gone away now, even on a cold start.

I heard Spring is a good time for springs. :D

I can tell you that removing it didn't make it feel back to bad TOB days, but the feedback you get from the pedal after taking the spring out is amazing. I imagine that MTEC spring I keep hearing about would might give you what you want, but who knows. If/when I get mine, I'll let you know. Edit: It's on its way. lol

For now I say pull it out, take it for a test drive, and if you don't like it just put it back. It's an easy job and you most likely won't damage the spring at all.

I'm curious about that MTEC spring too. I'll be looking forward to your review.

I have the same problem with the TOB on my 2015 BRZ. Is this covered by the 5yr powertrain warranty by any chance. I only have 30k miles on it but I am out of the 3yr/36k warranty.

No. It is only covered by the general warranty.


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...ff73d11654.jpg

Thanks for the info. My next question is, can I use the Toyota TOB part on my BRZ? Seems like the Toyota part is cheaper than the Subaru part.

Yes, parts are interchangeable.

You might call subaru of america and open a case - they might help out, might not. They offered me $600 toward the repair on mine (out of 3/36 but within powertrain), but my dealer labor rates were so crazy high that I just ended up doing it myself with help from a friend.

Put in a new clutch disk, pressure plate, pressure plate bolts, fork, fork pivot, TOB, clips, etc. and was way less than what the dealer would have cost even after the $600 credit from SOA.

I went to my local Subaru Dealer in Los Angeles and they quoted me approximately $1100 for changing out the TOB. They wanted $60 for the part. :(

Alldata has it at almost 7 hours labor. $60 part, $50 fluid, 7 hours @ $150 an hour.

Cheaper than it would be here, we're $155 an hour.

I see you are local to LA. I have a spare subie TOB that I bought before I took my car in. Since mine is a Scion, they wouldn't let me use it and bought the Toyota one for me. I'm up for selling it for however much the Toyota one is going for just to get it off my hands if you'd like.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Dude, ask around any mechanic shop these clutch jobs on our cars are simple as pie. Chances are you can get any shop to do it for far less.

Or if you have a few buddies and a garage you can do it yourself. Yeah it's a bit of a pain but do able.

Yeah that's about what they wanted here. Other repair shops were around $650 labor - $55 part.

I think the warranty rate on the TSB was 2.8 hours though. Honestly - I can't see a decent mechanic with a lift and proper tools needing anywhere near 7 hours for this job. Half that seems much more reasonable.

How long it takes and how much you pay are two entirely different things. Alldata is pretty much the standard time guide for cash pay work.

Billy and Jonny on the corner can knock it out in 45 minutes for $300. Having the work done at full price at the dealer used to mean a superior quality of repair and warranty. Not sure that still holds true, although there’s no FIPG involved :lol:

Fwiw, I’m pretty certain I’ve never R&R’d any transmission for less than 8 hours cash pay.

Good luck with that. Unless you know someone at a shop you probably won't find one that will drop the price much at all and even then it's questionable. So many repairs are coming down to diy or bend over and pay a shop book rate. When I was pricing getting the clutch done on my car last summer I couldn't get anyone to quote under $650 for labor. A couple of guys tried to explain to me that it didn't matter if it only took them 2 hours to do the work, it would still cost them more to do it than that amount :iono: I also couldn't find a single shop that would let me bring in parts, they all insisted on ordering the parts and having me pay nearly double over what I would have gotten them for myself. After two weeks of frustration I gave up and had AAMCO do it. It finally came out right after the second try, the first time they didn't replace the snout and the TOB was getting hung up on the deep scratches that were in it so they had to drop the tranny a second time and replace that and the TOB which they did at no cost to me.

My dealer charged me 5 hours. That was for a complete clutch and flywheel replacement (including the snout the TOB slides on). The only reason they had to spend so long was I waited too long to get the TOB replaced so it melted down and took out the whole works. They said if I had just come in earlier and had the TOB changed before it went completely it would have been 1/2 the time and a $30 part. So instead of $530 or so it cost me $1200.

I’m glad to hear that. Mercedes are expensive, sold mine years ago and have 3 Toyota’s (1 “Subaru”) in the driveway.