Sway bars for 2017 stock suspension
 

I want to improve my brz handling and wonder if some one here tried to put some sway bar on the 2017 stock suspension.
What the effect will be?
I want to get sharper handling, less body roll and better turn in.
I saw that they are a lot of types, solid/ hollow, different sizes, etc.
I will be very happy you know which one of them specificly can give me the best handling improvment to my stock brz (I dont want to lower my car).
Thank u!

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#1 mod: alignment, specifically getting negative camber up front! It makes a huge difference in how responsive the steering is. For street use, -2.5 front, -2 rear is a nice place to be. You can't change the back easily, but the front can be done just with bolts.

#2 mod is going to be tires.

I'm sure there are opinions all over about how magical and amazing this or that setup might be, but increasing roll stiffness without a proper alignment or tires is going to change how it feels, but probably won't actually improve much. In fact, I'd recommend springs before swaybars - get the car a little lower and a bit more stiffly sprung before fiddling with sways - unless that's simply not an option for you.

Yes sway bars will make the car roll less and yield better turn in...

But it really depends on what tire you're planning to run. On stock tires, any sway bar upgrade is likely going to overwork the tires and actually make you slower and have less grip. Hollow sways have the benefit of being lighter, but not as stiff. Solid sways have the benefit of being stiffer, yet heavier. For street driving you could probably get away with hollow sways, but pair it with better tires.

As you increase the stiffness of your suspension you should get stickier tires to accommodate the stiffness.

First of all,thank u for answering.
Second, i forgot to mention that i already have better tires (michelin ps4) and i think to improve them even better to yoko AD08R.
Wich roll bar (front/ back) will be good for me? I want the best improvment, that reduce bodyroll the most and will make the car sharp the most but without overkill the setup..

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My car is a 2015 so you would have to check to see if these fit. But I'm using Eibach sway bars, Cusco Zero 3R coil overs, 10K front, 12K rear, and my car has never handled better.

I can consider lowering springs too if it will low the car a little bit and will improve the performance and handling better than the sway bars..

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I'd still say alignment first. Getting some negative camber into the front makes a huge difference.

Otherwise as you add wheel rate it may just exacerbate the lack of front grip.

C

What about the bodyroll with the alignment?
If i go withe springs, whic recommended?
The spring after the 2017 facelift are the same as before?
It will be a compermise for me but if i will find springs that will not low the car too much, and the ride quality will be ok, i can handle it if it improve performance and reduce body roll better than the alternatives.
I heard about alingment before but never as something that can reduce bodyroll for example..

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Before I went with coil overs I tried H&R Super Sport springs. I really liked them but couldn't get enough front camber, so eventually went with coil overs.

What's the problem with body roll?

You say you want to improve turn in. In what way? Are you driving on tracks, autocross or street? Since you drive a brz and not an FRS I'm guessing that you want to reduce understeer a bit. Adding neg camber to the front as previously mentioned and a slightly bigger rear bar will help, say a 16mm. Get one thats adjustable

Body roll is quite low on this car overall already - it's a useful metric, perhaps, when analyzing the effect of a change. Compare to the ND Miata and you'll see (potentially) very similar track times, but a huge difference in body roll... the trade off is that the Miata handles rough track better.

Alignment, specifically negative camber in the front, is going to significantly improve turn-in and response.

Start here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25001

You can get -2° or more using the SPC bolt in the top and the top factory bolt in the bottom (I believe that's the trick setup...) - spring perch clearance is the limiting factor here - you do not want it rubbing on the tire, and you need room for the tire to deform and still not rub. I'd go the bolt route (over a cas/cam plate at the top of the front struts) to maintain a more comfortable ride.

I wouldn't worry too much about rear camber unless you're competing in some way, in which case we should evaluate your needs from the top. There is already a reasonable amount of negative camber from the factory, and the multi-link behaves better than the front strut setup. If you're the type that needs it perfect, an adjustable lower control arm is the way to go to get control over rear camber. Note that camber and toe both change together, so it's a bit miserable (in my opinion).

I'm curious about why springs are a compromise for you. Every suspension change is a compromise of some sort...

I drive the car for daily, track and in mountain roads. I want from the car to feel better, yesterday i was on the track, and find the body roll make me harder to go back from drift smoothly. I want flat feel under weight transfer, and to make the car more relevant and fun on the track. I want the fun and feels, the drama and a bit more oversteer more than times and speed. To get this i thought to pick some good and qualified springs (bit stiffer at tge rear) that good to work with stock shocks because i dont want to pay for coilovers right now.
Springs are comprmise for me because as daily drive i find it better to drive higher car...
Thanks for all comments, if u think springs are tge solution for me i will ve happy to hear which specificly
For the alignment, if i will go with -2 camber before and leave the rear stock it will work good together?

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The rear bar on a 2017 car is already 16mm.

I would go with a slightly larger front bar on a totally stock car, personally.

Didn't realize that thanks for clarifying

I dont want to use larger front sway bar because it will increase the understeery behavior of the car.
I want the opposite effect, to increase oversteer a bit, and to give the car a more solid feel and less body roll.
I will also be happy to hear you opinion about the alignment, negative camber of the front wheels with the bolts set to -2 while leaving the rear wheels stock, what effect it will have on the car?

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If you install larger front and rear sway bars, then you can balance how much oversteer you want. You have different mount points on the bar and you can play with the stifness. Personally, I like the beatrush front and rear sway bars. They are a bit larger (+1mm) and you can use the factory bushings and mount points. They 'll give a more solid feel because the bushings will be tighter and additionally less body roll because of the increased stifness (~ 124% stiffer).

What do you mean by "go back from drift smoothly"? Increasing roll stiffness increases the speed of weight transfer, but not the amount. If you're finding it hard to straighten out after a drift without having a mini tank slapper then you might actually want LESS roll stiffness so that the transition is slower and less dramatic.

I think you mean about 24% stiffer.

In short, dynamic camber loss for wheel angle camber loss from the body moving (top of the strut) relative to the ground.

In long, https://nasaspeed.news/tech/suspensi...spension-cars/

Yes.

I get that body roll can be a problem but that doesn't mean it is a problem. I almost alluded to the fact that a front sway can help grip but it sucks to type on a phone. I just think body roll is important. The reasoning for getting rid of roll would also mean that suspension in general is bad since it's the only reason the top of the strut changes position with respect to the ground.

I guess I am confused as to exactly what you are looking for. You said you want "the fun and the feels and drama" in an earlier post. Then in another, better turn-in, less body roll, and more oversteer.

Well, the fun and the feels and drama comes from body roll and general car playful'ness due to the softer stock setup. If you want that behavior, leave it stock IMO. These cars should not be understeering in stock configuration at all, so I'm kind of wondering why you seem to be experiencing that.

Adding negative camber is an easy thing to do and will accomplish just what cjd said.

Swaybar should be a fine tuning element in handling modifications. Tires first, it'll give you the greatest improvement in handling per dollar if you get proper summer tires.

Again, can't stress this enough, it helps with your cornering, your stopping distance, and off the line acceleration. For this car stock, it will give the most gains as far as handling is concerned.

... I don't think you understand how the camber curve for this MacPherson suspension works. This isn't a dual A-arm type.

Also, adequate suspension stroke is important. In an ideal world, I don't see a scenario where body roll is ever important.

The suspension isn't bad. It is purpose built. You haven't defined what purpose you want, as all implementations are a compromise, period.

There is no `one perfect suspension`. If there was, we would have pointed you to a FAQ.

Also "on a phone".... really?

I know how it works. I'm probably just not making my point clear enough. Body roll is a byproduct of having suspension. Basically every car has suspension and so it has body roll. You could get rid of it but as you said it's a compromise, so that may or may not be better for the car.

Honestly, I don't think you do from your descriptions.

What do you want? Describe it one bullet point at a time. Else, follow @cjd's advice.

I just wanted to know why he wanted to get rid of body roll

/me gives up.

/me unsubscribes

because racecar

You can drop it which is cool. I never understood your point of contention. You even refer me to some other members post but as far as I can tell, i agree with him and vice versa. He even like my original post that seemed to bother you.

i read from somewhere about the rear swaybar from 2017 model is 1mm larger than pre-2017 models. can anyone confirm?

It is 1mm larger, but the rear spring rates are softer.

It's actually 2mm larger. 16mm in MY17+ and 14mm on earlier cars.

EDIT: Correction, the MY17 rear bar is 15mm as stated. Not 16mm.

Are you certain?

2008 2.5WRX, 2017 brz 15mm pn: 2045FG002
2017 Toyota 86 rear is 15mm pn: SU00306461

2008 is the only year where the wrx had 15mm. 2009 the wrx went to 16mm with different pn

Would 16mm work. Yes. But is it OEM MY17+ Spec, I don’t think so.

Rear spring Softer compare to ? Brz or FRS?

Based on my research, it’s probably harder than MY13 BRZ, but softer than MY13 FRS

You are most likely understeering from the lack of camber in the front, until that’s fixed you really need to be entering corners slower and focusing more on your corner exit. Once you add the camber you may discover you need a slightly stiffer front spring rate (or sway bar rate) to reinforce the added camber.

I’d personally go with RCE springs (truly the best) and put the idea of sway bars out of your head until you think you need to change the balance of the car at the maximum level. Sway bar upgrades are awesome on certain cars, like it was adding an rs4 rear bar to my Audi a4. On this car, it’ll just make it stiffer which you should’ve just done with spring rates.

I'll have my 86 on the lift this weekend, I'll check the front and rear sway bar with a caliper.

Pretty certain. I have both bars at home off the car, I'll measure them tonight.

I know the PP on the 17 Yellow has a 1mm larger rear sway bar. Not sure if it is included on the non PP?