Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=59)
-   -   Sway bars for 2017 stock suspension (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124975)

TommyW 01-28-2018 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinco (Post 3035110)
The rear bar on a 2017 car is already 16mm.

I would go with a slightly larger front bar on a totally stock car, personally.
Didn't realize that thanks for clarifying

Menashe123 01-29-2018 06:40 AM
I dont want to use larger front sway bar because it will increase the understeery behavior of the car.
I want the opposite effect, to increase oversteer a bit, and to give the car a more solid feel and less body roll.
I will also be happy to hear you opinion about the alignment, negative camber of the front wheels with the bolts set to -2 while leaving the rear wheels stock, what effect it will have on the car?

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nikitopo 01-29-2018 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menashe123 (Post 3035330)
I dont want to use larger front sway bar because it will increase the understeery behavior of the car.
I want the opposite effect, to increase oversteer a bit, and to give the car a more solid feel and less body roll.
I will also be happy to hear you opinion about the alignment, negative camber of the front wheels with the bolts set to -2 while leaving the rear wheels stock, what effect it will have on the car?

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L22 using Tapatalk
If you install larger front and rear sway bars, then you can balance how much oversteer you want. You have different mount points on the bar and you can play with the stifness. Personally, I like the beatrush front and rear sway bars. They are a bit larger (+1mm) and you can use the factory bushings and mount points. They 'll give a more solid feel because the bushings will be tighter and additionally less body roll because of the increased stifness (~ 124% stiffer).

wparsons 01-29-2018 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menashe123 (Post 3035107)
I drive the car for daily, track and in mountain roads. I want from the car to feel better, yesterday i was on the track, and find the body roll make me harder to go back from drift smoothly. I want flat feel under weight transfer, and to make the car more relevant and fun on the track. I want the fun and feels, the drama and a bit more oversteer more than times and speed. To get this i thought to pick some good and qualified springs (bit stiffer at tge rear) that good to work with stock shocks because i dont want to pay for coilovers right now.
Springs are comprmise for me because as daily drive i find it better to drive higher car...
Thanks for all comments, if u think springs are tge solution for me i will ve happy to hear which specificly
For the alignment, if i will go with -2 camber before and leave the rear stock it will work good together?

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What do you mean by "go back from drift smoothly"? Increasing roll stiffness increases the speed of weight transfer, but not the amount. If you're finding it hard to straighten out after a drift without having a mini tank slapper then you might actually want LESS roll stiffness so that the transition is slower and less dramatic.

fatoni 01-29-2018 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitopo (Post 3035338)
If you install larger front and rear sway bars, then you can balance how much oversteer you want. You have different mount points on the bar and you can play with the stifness. Personally, I like the beatrush front and rear sway bars. They are a bit larger (+1mm) and you can use the factory bushings and mount points. They 'll give a more solid feel because the bushings will be tighter and additionally less body roll because of the increased stifness (~ 124% stiffer).
I think you mean about 24% stiffer.

dowroa 01-29-2018 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3035087)
What's the problem with body roll?
In short, dynamic camber loss for wheel angle camber loss from the body moving (top of the strut) relative to the ground.

In long, https://nasaspeed.news/tech/suspensi...spension-cars/

nikitopo 01-29-2018 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3035468)
I think you mean about 24% stiffer.
Yes.

fatoni 01-29-2018 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowroa (Post 3035487)
In short, dynamic camber loss for wheel angle camber loss from the body moving (top of the strut) relative to the ground.

In long, https://nasaspeed.news/tech/suspensi...spension-cars/
I get that body roll can be a problem but that doesn't mean it is a problem. I almost alluded to the fact that a front sway can help grip but it sucks to type on a phone. I just think body roll is important. The reasoning for getting rid of roll would also mean that suspension in general is bad since it's the only reason the top of the strut changes position with respect to the ground.

justinco 01-29-2018 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menashe123 (Post 3035330)
I dont want to use larger front sway bar because it will increase the understeery behavior of the car.
I want the opposite effect, to increase oversteer a bit, and to give the car a more solid feel and less body roll.
I will also be happy to hear you opinion about the alignment, negative camber of the front wheels with the bolts set to -2 while leaving the rear wheels stock, what effect it will have on the car?

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L22 using Tapatalk
I guess I am confused as to exactly what you are looking for. You said you want "the fun and the feels and drama" in an earlier post. Then in another, better turn-in, less body roll, and more oversteer.

Well, the fun and the feels and drama comes from body roll and general car playful'ness due to the softer stock setup. If you want that behavior, leave it stock IMO. These cars should not be understeering in stock configuration at all, so I'm kind of wondering why you seem to be experiencing that.

Adding negative camber is an easy thing to do and will accomplish just what cjd said.

ST185RC 01-29-2018 04:21 PM
Swaybar should be a fine tuning element in handling modifications. Tires first, it'll give you the greatest improvement in handling per dollar if you get proper summer tires.

Again, can't stress this enough, it helps with your cornering, your stopping distance, and off the line acceleration. For this car stock, it will give the most gains as far as handling is concerned.

dowroa 01-29-2018 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3035535)
just think body roll is important. The reasoning for getting rid of roll would also mean that suspension in general is bad since it's the only reason the top of the strut changes position with respect to the ground.

... I don't think you understand how the camber curve for this MacPherson suspension works. This isn't a dual A-arm type.

Also, adequate suspension stroke is important. In an ideal world, I don't see a scenario where body roll is ever important.

The suspension isn't bad. It is purpose built. You haven't defined what purpose you want, as all implementations are a compromise, period.

There is no `one perfect suspension`. If there was, we would have pointed you to a FAQ.

Also "on a phone".... really?

fatoni 01-29-2018 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowroa (Post 3035662)
... I don't think you understand how the camber curve for this MacPherson suspension works. This isn't a dual A-arm type.

Also, adequate suspension stroke is not important. In an ideal world, I don't see a scenario where body roll is ever important.

The suspension isn't bad. It is purpose built. You haven't defined what purpose you want, as all implementations are a compromise, period.

There is no `one perfect suspension`. If there was, we would have pointed you to a FAQ.

Also "on a phone".... really?
I know how it works. I'm probably just not making my point clear enough. Body roll is a byproduct of having suspension. Basically every car has suspension and so it has body roll. You could get rid of it but as you said it's a compromise, so that may or may not be better for the car.

dowroa 01-29-2018 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 3035687)
I know how it works. I'm probably just not making my point clear enough. Body roll is a byproduct of having suspension. Basically every car has suspension and so it has body roll. You could get rid of it but as you said it's a compromise, so that may or may not be better for the car.

Honestly, I don't think you do from your descriptions.

What do you want? Describe it one bullet point at a time. Else, follow @cjd's advice.

fatoni 01-29-2018 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowroa (Post 3035726)
Honestly, I don't think you do from your descriptions.

What do you want? Describe it one bullet point at a time. Else, follow @cjd's advice.
I just wanted to know why he wanted to get rid of body roll


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