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- - Few questions regarding a MY17 build (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124559)

Few questions regarding a MY17 build

Hey all, had a few questions before I start making purchases on parts for my build. I have the ARK GRIP catback and "test pipe" (their name for front pipe), undecided on the future overpipe (probably just gonna get something in one piece), and I'm looking to get the catted UEL FT86 headers. Will also be adding a Grimmspeed intake eventually (I know the drop-in has the same effect, I just want to clean the engine bay up a tad). This whole build will be no tune. The plan is to do these few mods and then work on the outside while the warranty in still in tact, and then go FI later on. The dealership that I bought it from said that as long as I don't tune, and the AFR isn't too off/no CELs that they'll have my back. Unless I'm obviously just intentionally blowing engines, of course.

I've done very extensive research on the matter to get to the parts that I've chosen, but since I'm still relatively new to modding, more opinions are always welcome. The dyno provided from FT86 for the headers shows that it eliminates the torque dip, but one of my coworkers states that that is impossible to do. He was looking over the map while tuning his own MY17 and said that the fuel is programmed to dip there for emissions purposes. Somebody here has some misinformation, and I'm unsure who. I'm perfectly fine with dropping a grand to eliminate the dip with no tune, if it eliminates the dip with no tune, as the dyno states it does (theirs explicitly says no tune).

What he is saying is that the only way to eliminate it is with a tune, and suggests OFT because it leaves no trace, but we both work for an IT firm, and that's not really how computers are programmed to work, generally. They always keep logs unless tampered with heavily. Even if there is no actual flash trace, wouldn't the dealership be able to notice a pretty significant change in AFR, which would ultimately indicate a tune?

I'm well aware that the best gains from this type of setup with always be achieved with an added tune, but I'm not ready to void my warranty, yet, so this is the best build that I could come up with after going through hundreds and hundreds of threads of dyno charts.

I do have the Joying radio + OBD attachment to monitor engine parameters to an extent, to help notice any significant changes that occur myself, but just taking some preemptive measures before I start ordering parts.

Thanks!

Yes, there always will be increased flash counter. But you overestimate average dealership competency, if that's what you are worried about. I don't think they know and do check that on average. Otherwise except that counter everything should be as stock ecu firmware wise. As for your upgrade plan .. i wouldn't even change airfilter (one of things improved for MY2017 MT), just maybe soundtube delete for your wished underbonnet space cleanup. And as aftermarket catted header still not 100% sure way to never get CELs, i'd go for good catless header + stock catted frontpipe + ecu tune, as something of more gains/better price-performancy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by texastwurkt3am (Post 3025411)

Hey all, had a few questions before I start making purchases on parts for my build. I have the ARK GRIP catback and "test pipe" (their name for front pipe), undecided on the future overpipe (probably just gonna get something in one piece), and I'm looking to get the catted UEL FT86 headers. Will also be adding a Grimmspeed intake eventually (I know the drop-in has the same effect, I just want to clean the engine bay up a tad). This whole build will be no tune. The plan is to do these few mods and then work on the outside while the warranty in still in tact, and then go FI later on. The dealership that I bought it from said that as long as I don't tune, and the AFR isn't too off/no CELs that they'll have my back. Unless I'm obviously just intentionally blowing engines, of course.

I've done very extensive research on the matter to get to the parts that I've chosen, but since I'm still relatively new to modding, more opinions are always welcome. The dyno provided from FT86 for the headers shows that it eliminates the torque dip, but one of my coworkers states that that is impossible to do. He was looking over the map while tuning his own MY17 and said that the fuel is programmed to dip there for emissions purposes. Somebody here has some misinformation, and I'm unsure who. I'm perfectly fine with dropping a grand to eliminate the dip with no tune, if it eliminates the dip with no tune, as the dyno states it does (theirs explicitly says no tune).

What he is saying is that the only way to eliminate it is with a tune, and suggests OFT because it leaves no trace, but we both work for an IT firm, and I know that that's not really how computers are programmed to work. They always keep logs unless tampered with heavily. Even if there is no actual flash trace, wouldn't the dealership be able to notice a pretty significant change in AFR, which would ultimately indicate a tune?

I'm well aware that the best gains from this type of setup with always be achieved with an added tune, but I'm not ready to void my warranty, yet, so this is the best build that I could come up with after going through hundreds and hundreds of threads of dyno charts.

I do have the Joying radio + OBD attachment to monitor engine parameters to an extent, to help notice any significant changes that occur myself, but just taking some preemptive measures before I start ordering parts.

Thanks!

I'd recommend staying away from anything between the catback and engine if you are worried about the warranty...

Your buddy is correct for the most part. And OFT is your best bet for flashing back to stock. Just make sure you do it at EVERY dealer visit in case they flash something new, and then drive 20 miles to get the trims settled Header is just as likely to give you less power and more problems without a tune.

If you are eliminating one of the 2 cats, you are better off performance-wise getting a catless header and using the stock front pipe. Anything of that nature is technically violating emissions regulations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchx (Post 3025430)

And as aftermarket catted header still not 100% sure way to never get CELs, i'd go for good catless header + stock catted frontpipe + ecu tune, as something of more gains/better price-performancy.

Yeah that's one of my worries is inevitably getting a CEL but still not 100% convinced on getting a tune yet. I have really bad luck with cars. Proven by how I got rear ended 20 minutes after leaving the lot when I bought this car lol. I've never blown an engine but given my luck something stupid would happen and I'd be out $8k for a new one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spuds (Post 3025437)

I'd recommend staying away from anything between the catback and engine if you are worried about the warranty...

If you are eliminating one of the 2 cats, you are better off performance-wise getting a catless header and using the stock front pipe. Anything of that nature is technically violating emissions regulations.

That's what I was thinking about headers until the dealership said otherwise. They seemed more worried about an intake.

I've had the ARK test/front pipe (replaces cat with resonator) + GRIP since 2015 on my '13 model and never had any CELs and always passed emissions, but I know that could all change once I swap more parts

Yes you will need a tune to increase torque between 3.5k-5k rpm, there are no bolt on modifications that change the powerband in that range if you insist on maintaining the stock tune.

I don't personally trust dealerships further than I can throw them, but more power to you for building that relationship and I hope it pays off for you.
:cheers:

The "torque dip" never bothers me, imho it's not hard to keep the engine in it's powerband above 5k rpm when needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 3025472)

I'm not necessarily against a tune, I would actually prefer it, I just need a very near to absolute guarantee that one can be applied without voiding my warranty

The dealership itself I don't trust at all, but the service shop guys seemed pretty cool if nothing else. They were as interested in my project to eliminate the torque dip as I was, and a few sales guys have some modded WRXs and stuff; we talked tunes and parts during the arduous buying process

Quote:

Originally Posted by texastwurkt3am (Post 3025446)

the overpipe/front pipe/cbe don't do anything that would affect any of the engine sensors or set off a CEL. Its really just the header since that has the primary cat, the front pipe cat is a secondary that has zero adverse affects if you remove it or replace it with a HFC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spuds (Post 3025437)

I'm the buddy in question he mentioned. A friend of mine works for Toyota and we plugged my ECU into a Techstream while I had the OFT tune, before and after flashing. We couldn't find anything in the memory that hinted at a flash counter or last flashed date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjanmohammad (Post 3025497)

Speak of the devil and he will appear lol. Moe is the coworker in the OP

Well then I guess this begs the question, where in the hell did they get these dyno figures? All just an elaborate ruse?

"Our catted UEL header is a simple bolt on install that gains 18ft lb. of torque and 12HP in the infamous "dip". Peak power is up 14HP and 5ft lbs of torque with no ECU tuning. Unlock even more with a tune. No CEL, as well, for those who wish to not stare at a light on the dash. No CEL is on a stock car with no other mods. If you have other parts you still need a tune."
http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/medi...86ctdhdr-8.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by texastwurkt3am (Post 3025495)

I just need a very near to absolute guarantee that one can be applied without voiding my warranty

Warranties cannot be voided.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42595

Nobody can guarantee that the dealership in question won't pull a fast one (requiring you to go to court to get a repair covered) aside from a written contract from said dealership service department, which they could still double back on and make you suffer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 3025549)

Warranties cannot be voided.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42595

I was looking into the M-M law a few months ago when I started compiling everything. How does that work exactly? Couldn't a tune be argued in court to have made the engine perform outside of its base parameters, and therefore have caused the part in question to break?

Quote:

Originally Posted by texastwurkt3am (Post 3025552)

How does that work exactly?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42595

Quote:

Originally Posted by texastwurkt3am (Post 3025552)

Couldn't a tune be argued in court to have made the engine perform outside of its base parameters, and therefore have caused the part in question to break?

That is the risk you take making any modification to your car, from a tune to a catback exhaust to an LED lightbulb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 3025561)

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42595.

Yes, I read that in its entirety. The question was just a rhetorical preface for the next question, but thanks.