I never assumed that you haven't been to the track, I asked how many times have you been. I asked because you see yourself fit to judge other people's driving abilities so obviously you must have some kind of experience.

Even you yourself admitted that extra torque is nice during certain driving conditions so I'm not sure where you are getting confused. "Real world driving" varies greatly depending on where you live. Not everyone lives in congested cities like Toronto.

Okay, you want to whine about insufficient torque? The bad news for you is that 86 platform has a certain number for that torque which is apparently not good enough for you. The good news is there are solutions: either improve that number like I did, buy another car, or learn driving it as it is like Chris Harris or Carlos Lago and many others. Which one will you do to solve "your" torque problem? But please save others from this constant whining.

From what I can tell, you didn't even own your car for a year before you bolted on a supercharger. Don't act high and mighty like I'm bashing this car in stock form. I never once said this car had insufficient torque, and I never said it wasnt good enough for me. I think it's funny that you think I'm whining, all I am doing is literally saying that more torque in this car would make it even more enjoyable. Obviously you agree since you have forced induction.

Like I said, I've driven this car stock for almost 4 years now and I drive it the way it was meant to be driven almost every single day. I redline the car, downshift frequently and squeeze every last bit of power out of the engine. Just because I like the idea of more power some day doesnt mean I don't love this car.

I don't know why some of you guys seem to think that I don't know how to drive, especially considering most of you guys have power adding mods already.

Well, I am not a race driver. You could very well drive better than me and some others here. If more torque is what you like, of course the car will be more enjoyable for you with more torque. I just don't see a point of trying to generalize our preferences. That is what I tried to say in my post. If you don't like the car just move on or solve the problem. I apologize for being crass.

86 is what it is. It is a wonderful car for me. I almost like it's low torque since it pushes me to extract it. There is a nice reward if I drive it in a certain way. It pushes me to optimize my driving; I have rediscovered joy of driving with this car.

You are right. I boosted my FR-S after driving stock a little more than one year. I have never complained about torque though. I boosted for the challenge of tinkering with my car. I wasn't unhappy with the car. My only concern was screwing the car while trying to boost it, just like Carlos Lago said in his review.

Peace!

I think if you've never owned a car with low end torque you are more willing to put up with needing to clutch drop or run 6000+ to get the rear to break on demand. More torque would definitely make the car more fun. Sure, the car is a blast as it is (I wouldn't have bought one if it wasn't), but more power is always more fun.

You don't need to be at 6000 to break traction lol. Just turn off traction control and you can spin pretty easy

I just got mine. 2013 with 80k. Garbage tires too. In 2nd I can only move the rear under very high gload. There just isn't enough power to do it without the help of cornering load. Only a clutch drop will break them loose without load. This is after the pedal dance BTW. Maybe mine is severely down on power. Once I replace these tires it's going to be dramatically harder to move the rear. My IS300 5MT with LSD could swing the rear in 2nd gear at any time with literally zero effort as low as 2000rpm. This is with 225/45/17 Star Specs. My car came with brand new tires so I am not going to swap them now but I can't wait for that day to come. Then again, I will not even be able to move the rear in 1st at that point. hahaha

I need to get my car to the drag strip to see what it will do. I figure if I can't run a 15 flat then something is up with it.

Ahhh, I hope you took spin as something akin to a donut, because I wasn't referring to doing a burnout, although I have lost rear traction at a red light with simply being too hard on the gas by accident with all aids on. I have also gotten the car to do some pretty gnarly corners with the back popping out at pretty low speeds and around 4k rpm, nothing prolonged though. A lot of this happens in 2nd and 3rd gear for me

It would really suck if your car was down on power, but I doubt it would be down by that much in such short years unless something was mechanically wrong, or even changed(?). You also have an FRS, and those were known for being pretty tail happy compared to the BRZ and now 86 that share the same suspension setup

Yeah I am talking about turns. I could care less about burnouts. It just requires more cornering load then I would expect to get the rear to move. I am used to being able to power out of turns very casually with the rear hanging out under any amount of cornering load and any RPM. In the FRS I have to be fully committed to trying to unplant the rear and for sure make sure I'm in the right gear to avoid the dreadful dip.

Hmm.. thinking more about this. In the IS300 I can take some of my favorite turns much faster than in the FRS. Entirely because of the tires. If I enter a turn at the same speeds I would in the IS300 it tends to push at turn in. If I life for a second to move the weight forward and then give it some throttle I can turn that push into oversteer but it's not very comforting. With better tires initial turn in should feel better and then when I power out it should have enough load to move the rear a little but leave me feeling confident.

I don't know, right now it just feels like an underpowered momentum car. Which I am fine with. But I can still wish for more power. :)

Sounds like you need an alignment

With these cars I do think you have to somewhat deliberately upset the balance of the car to feel the rear end kick, but maybe it's also the weight difference between the two that you're feeling as well as the torque/tire difference.

You could always go out after a rainy day with pedal dance, but I wouldn't recommend it if you know what I mean lol, or Subaru could just hand over the WRX FA20's and make a lot of people happy, that thing is pure low end torque

I disconnected the panic brake switch on my IS300 which permanently disables the stupid brake assist along with ABS and TC. I could drive it in the rain all day with no problem. It's amazing what good tires do. But this FRS is frightening in the rain on these POS tires. I leave all the aids enabled on this car. At least for now. I've only owned ultra high end tires going back to 1997. So having crap tires has been an eye opener for me. For ever I have always told people to change tires when they ask me what suspension mod to do first. Going back to crap tires for the first time in a long time reminds me how good this advice is. Hahaha

I have been impressed with how well the ASC and TC work on this car. It isn't all that invasive if you are staying within the limits for the most part. If you intentionally try to upset the balance it's a bit invasive. I'm not really sure how the insurance rates are so bad on this car. I guess every boy racer turns off all the aids before learning how to handle the car. I know if I got this car for my 16 year old kid I would be disconnecting the switch. Hahaha

I officially place my vote for a FA20DIT!

I pay cheaper insurance than someone I know who is similar age and owns a POS veloster BASE??? lol, and insurance in Canada for these cars I don't think is bad at all, we may have less boy racers or they are all just on the WRX/Genesis train. In the rain though, holy crap, I did a 180 after my car understeered with these tires, this wasn't me trying to drift either, just a really awkward roundabout and not fast at all (it was curb or spin, so I chose spin). 100% not a car for a first time driver, a first time RWD or manual though it's great so I wouldn't look at these for your future 16 year old lol.

Only thing about the FA20DIT... no top end... dies at 5k where the FA20 feels great at 4.5k+, which I know I prefer around corners :D

More power and torque would be very welcome. If Subie came out with a 260whp/200rwt version with the same weight, weight distribution and handling and priced it at a $7500-9000 premium I'm pretty sure I'd bite. If they could accomplish all the above and do so by installing an FA30 H-6 powerplant (that sounds like a 911 GT3 in the cabin), I KNOW I'd auction off an organ to trade up.

That said, as an old guy I worked for as a kid would tell me every time I wished for something, "Son, go over in that corner, hold out your hands and cup them. Wish in your left hand. Then piss in your right hand. Let me know which one fills up first."

There are multiple Norman Chubbyknuckle Choruses singing the prayers of the Subaristi for more steam in these things. Maybe it will happen. My money is on not. C'est la vie. Or we can take cues from a bunch of tyro journos who don't own these things and spend the rest of our lives pissed off that Subaru is holding out on us.