Need help choosing coilovers
 

Hi everyone,

I guess ill start off by saying what i would like to get out of my car and modifications being done.

Firstly my car will basically be for street use with occasional spirited/aggressive driving. In 12 months time i do plan to go Forced Induction. I do not have any future plans as of yet to every track my car although i may in the next couple of years which would only be once or twice not something i'm taking into consideration when choosing a set of coilovers.

I will be running quite an aggressive wheel setup 19x8.5+40 Front 19x9.5+40Rear on 235/35, 265/35 respectively on Work 2pc Forged wheels. Plans on lowering the car will only be 15-25mm from stock height.

I have been reading the forums/suspension section quite extensively and decided to post my own thread as some questions i have not been able to find an answer for and to get a broad recommendation from people here and maybe some professional answers.

Along with the coilover set i will be installing at the same time the RS-R LCA and rear toe link along with the whiteline suspension bushing kit.

I have been looking at the below Coilovers and would like some help in deciding which to get and am open to other suggestions.

Tein Flex Z
RS-R Sports I
Bilstein B14/16
MCA Purple X Series
Fortune Auto 500 w/SwiftSprings
KW V3

I'm basically ruling out kits like BC/Megan as they don't seem to have a good reputation regarding valving to correct spring rates and quality seems sub par.

I have heard good things regarding the Tein Flex Z more of a you get your moneys worth here although a lot of people seem to start seeing issues after 5000-7000 Miles such as loud clunking noises and other weird suspension noises.

Regarding MCA i have heard great things and a big bonus is they're local to me although it does seem like it was quite a bit of a hype when they released coilovers for the FRS/BRZ. Great time attack times although all racing vehicles they produce are the MCA Golds and honestly at that price-point id rather get a set of Penske's. As for the blue and purple series i have heard mixed reviews regarding the dampers and valving as they are not altered much or tested compared to the Red/Gold. Would love further specs/opinions on these.

My first choice would have been the B16's as this is a quality product with local support only a 5 minute drive away, although only thing steering me away from these is the spring size is same as OEM which might give me some clearance issues. Don't really want to spend $2000 to have them not work with my desired set up.

My budget would be between 1500-2000AUD or USD give or take a couple hundred.
It would be a bonus if there were some sort of local support or can be locally rebuilt as living in Australia makes this quite hard with quite a few of the better options out there such as the KW.

Thanks in advance love to hear everyones thoughts and sorry for the long read.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67345

imho rethink your wheels and get the Bilstein, a set of light 17x9 square with +35 offset will clear stock suspension, and the Bilstein springs actually taper down to a narrow id at the bottom (I think even up to +45 clears stock, it's just super tight, and with big tires it'll get tighter, but you can space those out and extended studs because racecar, +40 might be perfect with a 3mm spacer up front). Some high quality 255-265 tires will give you as much grip as your proposed setup. They'll be cheaper than 19" tires too.

Another option is putting linear rate springs in the Bilstein, more expensive than off the shelf but local support should be able to help and you'll get as much clearance as the other options.

I'm not dissing the rest of your coilover options, it just stuck out to me that Bilstein is kind of your first choice and the things holding you back are poor choices for what you want to use the car for (street, aggressive driving, slim chance of track use) as staggered 19" wheels on this car are just for show giving you reduced handling capabilities and potentially very poor ride quality. I'm sure some people love that kind of setup, and hey, maybe it is exactly what you want and the tradeoffs aren't noticeable to you and are totally worth it.

Best of luck.

If you're in it for the long haul, this.

Also, that stagger... You must really like a badly pushy setup. Handling will not be good for aggressive driving.

Hi strat thank you for your input.

Do you have any recommendations on which linear springs would suit the bilstein set up and rough price on them?

Also i hear you with the wheels and cant do much to change them now as they are already on there way from japan :/ Proposed tyres are the Pirelli PZero's

IMO if you're hesitant to take the plunge or don't feel great about your local support the headache could be massive and working through it a living nightmare. Good local support can guide you through putting a linear spring rate on the Bilstein and if you're mechanically apt you could probably do it solo no problem, in the US a high quality spring is about $65 (Hyperco or Eibach are the big names here) and a 4k or 5k spring should work well, easier to dial in with the adjustable B16. I can write up more if desired but...

On the upside if you're stuck with the wheels 19x8.5 +40 up front I don't think you'll have a clearance issue and can run the Bilstein's. As before 17x9 +35 clears stock so 8.5 +40 should have about 5mm more clearance than that.

Since they're on the way, when they get to you pop them on the front, even without tires (use a jack to move the suspension to ensure they clear when sitting on the ground), see if they clear, if they do the Bilstein's will be no problem.

Vorshlag can help with custom spring rates in small diameters with adjustable Bilsteins right now. If you want 400 pound springs on non-adjustable Bilsteins RCE should have something for you in December or January.

Thanks for the heads up was trying to find replacement springs for the B16 with a smaller diameter but seems difficult to find ones that fit as some threads say there are issues with some replacement springs not being able to fit... Would be a lot simpler if Bilstein just released their coilover range with the smaller spring..

60 mm ID spring, 6"-7" tall, maybe a helper spring (the super low spring rate kind, no pressure to collapse, just ensures the main spring isn't totally loose at full droop) and adapter if going low (you can try without and pick one up later if it's needed), the only trick is the top spring perch to mate to the top hat which is super easy to machine, and that might be what @Pat is implying with the Vorshlag suggestion, that they already have a spring perch and suggested spring they can ship you.

This guy did something similar, I wouldn't follow his process exactly but he was pretty happy with his end setup.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103830

@Racecomp Engineering I would like to here your input if possible and also if you find your RCE T0's would be a good option and how support/rebuilding could work for me being in australia.

This would be a great setup although brings it out of my price range as it would be closer to 2500 excluding the top spring perch. Thank you for the help though.

I would go for a ride with someone that has MCAs and see what you think.

RCE T0 would be a good choice too and what I'd recommend if you were in the USA. We support our products wherever they are, but shipping is expensive and everything will just take a little longer. I have family in Perth and I haven't seen them in years. :lol:

Bilstein B16 are a good choice but the spring sizing is annoying. If you have a trusted local shop that can help set you up, then it's not a bad idea.

But if MCA are as good as I keep hearing, they sound like the right way to go.

Also, get some different wheels. :)

- Andrew

Just spent $3800 on the wheels and tyres cant really just get rid of them.

But appreciate your suggestion with coils ill have to check out the local shop and see what they can do for me.

Test fit the fronts with the stock suspension, I bet they fit and you can run pretty much any suspension you want.

Will do, I'll also test for the rear as I fear the 9.5 inch will possibly hit the strut/spring especially with the 265.

If I don't have any clearance issues what would you recommend overall that will provide up to a 25mm drop have adjustability for stiffness so I don't smack the fender and have a $2000USD budget?

There's other things in the way before the wheel could possibly hit damper/spring (there is no strut on the rear)

All of your options are capable of performing that task.

As a fellow Aussie I suspect the MCA X-C coilovers will be a good option for you. It might also be worth talking to Shockworks in Melbourne as they also make a well regarded coilover that is popular here in Melbourne for slightly less than the MCA's.

Been contacting Josh at MCA today has had recommended either the Mca blue or Mca XC Purple coupled with 6kg front 4.5kg rear springs. Any opinions on this and also does anybody know if the coilovers have stainless steel bodies like the kw and bilstein?

@JamesK
I'm sorry but I really don't understand the dilemma you are having. You reside in Australia. MCA is in Australia. To me there is no other choice.

I have in a couple of other posts but will say again: you will not appreciate local support until you need it. Best of luck getting help or getting those other dampers serviced in Aus.

Regarding the Tein Z. My impression is that they are a great value off the shelf item for close to standard cars. Given your intended wheels (*shudder*) you need a custom set-up.

Here is another thing I have said before: As soon as your speed is above zero your suspension is beginning to work.That is, the suspension is working most of the time so you should be getting the best possible dampers you can afford. You said up to $2000 US which is about AUD$2600. Plus the other couple of hundred you were willing to spend and there you have the price of the Reds.

You really should have a chat to Josh at MCA and see what he has to say.

If you are just in it for the looks, and judging by your intended wheels I'm guessing you are, then you don't need good dampers anyway.

Yeah, I have an opinion. And I don't like it. Because I am going to suggest something different to Josh and if I knew 1% of what he does I would be setting up my own steering shop.

My reasoning as follows:
Motion ratio at the rear is around 0.75 so your spring rate at the wheel on the 4.5k springs is about 2.5k. Given your wheels at the back I am thinking that this spring rate is too low.

I am confident the bodies are not stainless steel but I don't see how that is relevant in Aus.

Think my main post made it clear I do not have intentions to track the car it's simply street and spirited driving DD. And no could care less what the coilovers look like just want a quality damper. Don't want to waste 1-2000 on a crappy product. Hence the reason for me asking on the forums to see people's opinions. Pros and cons

If you don't want to get the spring rates right, then you will have lots of understeer, which your staggered tire setup already does.

You should mention what tire you plan to run, if you are going for a low grip tire, lower spring rates are better matched.

Honestly you can't go wrong with mca/b16 as they are local and can revalve them to your liking if you don't like the standard valving. Also if you blow a corner, you won't have to be out of commission for too long. I personally wouldn't go with mca because they have the spring rates wrong for a neutral handling car.

On 19's you should be running 30 series not 35. 35's are more for 18's. You will rub because the diameter is too big, not because it is too wide.
Depending on how low you are, the rears will rub on the bumper tab or be really close. You will have plenty of suspension clearance otherwise.

I wouldn't suggest the MCA Blues or Purples either. They are off the shelf items all with preset valving. That is, there is no customising.

However, I would recommend the Reds as these can be built to requirements and given the Op's wheels I think this is mandatory.

Thanks for the input people and i do agree with most especially that MCA do offer quite strange spring rates seems like reds would be the only option. although out of my price range.

Update ive been told that the wheels have not be despached yet and am trying to get them to work around giving me 18" instead "hope they can change it".

MCA Reds come to 3200 delivered due to the need of helper springs as the springs do droop. which is out of my budget.

Listen to what expert local shops say and don't trust too much the people on the internet. You said in your original post that your car will basically be for street use with occasional spirited/aggressive driving. You should keep your spring rates on a reasonable level. Otherwise, you will not have a good handling car and you'll have to drive like a chicken. High spring rates should be focused only for the track or if you're building a show only staggered look.

Yup - talk to MCA and let them help you out, vs what's said here. And it's 'bollocks' if someone says you don't need good dampers if you have big/heavy rims & tires. Quality dampers, correct spring rates & performance alignment are always important considerations unless you never actually drive your car anywhere, or unless you only drive perfectly smooth roads.

I know penske have quite an expensive coilover race spec kit for the toyota 86 but is it possible to buy their standard single adjustable coil over shock.

https://www.penskeshocks.com/product...ies-coil-over/

And add top hat and coil mounts? these would come to only 1840 for the 4 shocks.
Not sure where to get just base coilover attachment to add to the car. Would this be a good way to go. support seems good with penske too as they are able to send the parts required for repair.

Helper springs? That's new to me. I've just had my Reds back for about a month after getting them overhauled and modified and there was no mention of helpers when I was talking to Josh.


Ok, I don't know what I'm talking about here but the Penskes in your link are for double wishbone setups. There is no mention of fitment. That is, you have to specify the damper to meet your needs.
Given that Penske US gives a starting price of US$10k for the BRZ/86/FRS kit I really don't like the chances of getting an inexpensive set.

I think you'll find that the price in your link is per damper.

By the way, when I was investigating dampers I rang the Aus dealer for Penske ( http://www.nttyres.com/showPage.php?...id=topmenur0c3) and he suggested I get some Bilsteins. *shrug*

they just told me due to the springs not being captive at full droop helper springs can be added into the kit to help aid this issue.

JamesK: these prices for penskes imho are closer to truth. Non adjustables start with $7365. It's completely customisable though for customer preferences, and you get their expertise to help get THE right setup for you.

figured it wasnt that easy and yes way past budget..

I would never install such kind of suspension in my car (penske). It is meaningless after some point to search for performance from a suspension. These setups are just for professional teams and drivers with endless amount of money who sick to save a few milliseconds from each lap. For the rest of us there are some pretty good coilover sets. Bilstein, KW, Sachs, Ohlins to name a few.

@JamesK if you aren't tracking your car and aren't too fussed about ultimate ride quality then just get the 19" wheels you like the look of. They will add a lot of weight unsprung and rotational weight but if you like how it will look then go for it. I have seen a staggered 19" setup that looked awesome on an 86 but have a read of the below thread and understand the negative consequences of big wheels.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67345

As for spring rates, I have read that MCA tend to have softer rear spring rates in general. If you aren't tracking the car will it really matter to you? Also keep in mind that replacement coilover springs are relatively cheap. If after three months you decide the car has more understeer (with a good alignment) than you like then spend $200 on a pair of stiffer springs.

Get some opinions from the forums but take them with a grain of salt. Do your own research and make up your own mind based on your own goals and how much performance you will compromise for looks.

IMHO get bags.
Seems your more in the show category than go.