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-   BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   They said I could be anything... (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121916)

Stang70Fastback 09-11-2017 06:13 PM

They said I could be anything...
 
...so I became a utility truck.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...eb&oe=5A15DD7D

BaatLuk 09-11-2017 10:03 PM

Thanks for sharing! The piece of wood makes me cringe. From the angle of the picture, looks like it's going to scratch your spoiler or smash into your rear window at any second...I know you probably had it tied down but still...

spike021 09-11-2017 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 2976674)
...so I became a utility truck.

But I thought twins are impractical???

Stang70Fastback 09-11-2017 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaatLuk (Post 2976774)
Thanks for sharing! The piece of wood makes me cringe. From the angle of the picture, looks like it's going to scratch your spoiler or smash into your rear window at any second...I know you probably had it tied down but still...

Haha! It was a foot from the rear spoiler. I tested at maximum angle and it came within an inch tho. Especially when the car went up over something and the trailer tilted down, lol.

Tcoat 09-12-2017 06:18 AM

Taking the big wing to whole new levels!

DarkSunrise 09-12-2017 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2976927)
Taking the big wing to whole new levels!

Pssh... he could at least paint match it. :rolleyes:

Tcoat 09-12-2017 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise (Post 2976930)
Pssh... he could at least paint match it. :rolleyes:

Prototype for RB 12. The actual will be all carbon fiber.

DarkSunrise 09-12-2017 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2976948)
Prototype for RB 12. The actual will be all carbon fiber.

Nice! One thing I always felt the RB kits needed was a bigger wing.

Tcoat 09-12-2017 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise (Post 2976961)
Nice! One thing I always felt the RB kits needed was a bigger wing.

It ain't a wing until you need a trailer to haul it will become the new thing.
Stang is a true pioneer.

Stang70Fastback 09-14-2017 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2976966)
Stang is a true pioneer.

Yes, "He is a true pioneer," is definitely the expression that was on most peoples' faces in the Home Depot parking lot, and on the drive home. Definitely.

apex predator 09-27-2017 03:25 PM

This is awesome, and exactly what I plan to do when I get into a BRZ in about 18-months.

I try to be active; biking, kayaking and camping; and plan to buy a jetski trailer to modify with different "racks" for sports and general hauling capacity. I'll always have my families Honda Odyssey for bigger jobs, but a trailer like this will allow me to take my BRZ on excursions without leaving any toys behind.

Great job on yours! I love the color match! :bow:

Jordanwolf 09-29-2017 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 2976674)

Pretty sure manual says "DO NOT TOW"

Tcoat 09-29-2017 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 2985339)
Pretty sure manual says "DO NOT TOW"

It says a lot of things that people ignore. I think towing a light tongue weight trailer is the least of the contraventions we have seen on here.

Stang70Fastback 09-29-2017 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 2985339)
Pretty sure manual says "DO NOT TOW"

The Owner's Manual states "Do Not Tow" because towing was never in the "official" design specifications when Subaru and Toyota were designing, building, and testing the car. Therefore the car was never tested for towing capability, and as a result, the Owner's Manual states not to do so, as neither Subaru, nor Toyota, want to be responsible for any issues stemming from something they never explicitly designed the car to do.

That statement was not written by engineers. It was written by lawyers to cover their butts. Even if it does state a towing capacity, that isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all of what the vehicle can do. A lot of things come together to define the "official towing capacity" of a vehicle, and the mechanical limits of the vehicle are only one of those things. The "safe limit" is different from the mechanical limit. The "legal limit" is different from both of those. And so on, and so forth. Any vehicle can tow something, though. And since I just got into an argument with someone about this on Facebook, I can conveniently copy-paste this reply :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me
The heaviest iteration of the BRZ has a curb weight of 2835 lb (according to Google.) The lowest GVWR of this car is 3682 lb. That means the car is rated to carry an additional 847 lb of "cargo" if we take the worst versions of those numbers. The actual rating is likely higher. If the driver weighs 185 lb, that leaves you with 662 lb of leftover capacity. My trailer (pictured here) weighs 650 lb at most (in my overestimation.) That means that when I tow my trailer, I am actually WITHIN the design criteria for what the engineers rated the engine, transmission, brakes, and all other mechanical parts of the car to be capable of. In addition, I'm actually well UNDER the maximum capacity of the suspension, since it is only carrying the tongue weight of the trailer, and not the entire weight of the trailer and its contents. So the car is operating fully within its rated specifications, and isn't prone to any sort of unusual failure as a result of towing.

As far as that 50 lb tongue weight, 50 lb distributed across those two tow points isn't going to do ANYTHING since each tow point is individually designed for many, MANY times more than that amount of load.


Jordanwolf 09-29-2017 02:14 PM

I am not here to argue, so stand back foul demon, your need to prove your point is not necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 2985357)
The Owner's Manual states "Do Not Tow" because towing was never in the "official" design specifications when Subaru and Toyota were designing, building, and testing the car. Therefore the car was never tested for towing capability, and as a result, the Owner's Manual states not to do so, as neither Subaru, nor Toyota, want to be responsible for any issues stemming from something they never explicitly designed the car to do.

That statement was not written by engineers. It was written by lawyers to cover their butts. Even if it does state a towing capacity, that isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all of what the vehicle can do. A lot of things come together to define the "official towing capacity" of a vehicle, and the mechanical limits of the vehicle are only one of those things. The "safe limit" is different from the mechanical limit. The "legal limit" is different from both of those. And so on, and so forth. Any vehicle can tow something, though. And since I just got into an argument with someone about this on Facebook, I can conveniently copy-paste this reply :)


Stang70Fastback 09-29-2017 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 2985402)
I am not here to argue, so stand back foul demon, your need to prove your point is not necessary.

Wasn't being nasty. Just trying to explain :)

Tcoat 09-29-2017 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 2985357)
The Owner's Manual states "Do Not Tow" because towing was never in the "official" design specifications when Subaru and Toyota were designing, building, and testing the car. Therefore the car was never tested for towing capability, and as a result, the Owner's Manual states not to do so, as neither Subaru, nor Toyota, want to be responsible for any issues stemming from something they never explicitly designed the car to do.

That statement was not written by engineers. It was written by lawyers to cover their butts. Even if it does state a towing capacity, that isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all of what the vehicle can do. A lot of things come together to define the "official towing capacity" of a vehicle, and the mechanical limits of the vehicle are only one of those things. The "safe limit" is different from the mechanical limit. The "legal limit" is different from both of those. And so on, and so forth. Any vehicle can tow something, though. And since I just got into an argument with someone about this on Facebook, I can conveniently copy-paste this reply :)

The only time I worry about somebody towing when not recommended is with FWD cars. Start to get into some wonky traction and steering issues then
Any RWD/AWD vehicle can easily and safely to a trailer as long as you pay attention to the tongue weight (as you said).
There is a huge market for motorcycle trailers and if they can pull one you certainly can.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7a/4f/9f/7...cle-travel.jpg

Jordanwolf 09-29-2017 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 2985405)
Wasn't being nasty. Just trying to explain :)

I actually had the same idea for myself down the road if I don't have another vehicle yet. I plan to get like a little trailer thing for easy camping, tents are great and all, but mini trailer better

LOLS2K 09-29-2017 03:15 PM

Does this void the warranty?
:popcorn:

Darth Khan 09-29-2017 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOLS2K (Post 2985466)
Does this void the warranty?
:popcorn:

No. but if you get into an accident the insurance company could argue the point that the vehicle should not have been towing and not pay out.

Stang70Fastback 09-29-2017 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Khan (Post 2985472)
No. but if you get into an accident the insurance company could argue the point that the vehicle should not have been towing and not pay out.

That is a common misconception/assumption. I've spoken to multiole insurance companies about this, and there are no issues with a reasonably sized trailer.

gravitylover 09-29-2017 04:29 PM

How did you wire up the trailer lights? I need them for when I have bikes on the hitch rack because they obstruct the tail lights completely so I want to hang a set on the outermost bike.

I also want to get a small super lightweight trailer to transport a variety of things.

Darth Khan 09-29-2017 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 2985505)
That is a common misconception/assumption. I've spoken to multiole insurance companies about this, and there are no issues with a reasonably sized trailer.

Give them a call back and ask the following question:

"I want to tow a trailer with my car however the manufacturers manual states 'Do Not Tow', will there be any issues with coverage if I am involved in an accident?"

Even if they person on the phone says it would be fine, on the day of the claim when the assessor is at the end of his monthly bonus drive, he/she may decide no.

Having said that I suspect that most WILL PAY, however like I said they could argue the point and would probably win in court.

Stang70Fastback 09-30-2017 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Khan (Post 2985511)
Give them a call back and ask the following question:

"I want to tow a trailer with my car however the manufacturers manual states 'Do Not Tow', will there be any issues with coverage if I am involved in an accident?"

Even if they person on the phone says it would be fine, on the day of the claim when the assessor is at the end of his monthly bonus drive, he/she may decide no.

Having said that I suspect that most WILL PAY, however like I said they could argue the point and would probably win in court.

There is no language in mine, or anyone else's insurance contract that stipulates your trailer must fall within manufacturer specifications. There isn't any reason to think they would win in court. Not only do their own documents not prohibit it, but the Owners Manual merely states that the vehicle was not designed or intended to tow, not that it can't tow. The manual language is legal jargon for "we never tested this setup, so don't expect us to cover anything under warranty if it fails while towing."

And here is the response I have, in writing, from my insurance company:

Quote:

In terms of the trailer, you are completely covered for liability insurance while the trailer is attached to your car, regardless of whether or not Subaru recommends attaching a trailer to a car in the first place. The reality is that all cars have a towing capacity to some extent, as you know. Whether it’s my Saab, a Miata, or an F-150, people are going to attach a trailer to their car. Fortunately, we recognize this and would absolutely not deny a liability claim based on the fact that a trailer would void your warranty with Subaru. What I’m getting at is that we would absolutely not deny a liability claim for your trailer.

We are not a company that denies claims based on nonsense, especially when liability coverage is involved. The only way you could really have a claim denied is if you falsified your application or committed insurance fraud and that’s honestly really difficult to do. For example, if you did not actually own the vehicle you insure, an insurance company has a right to deny the claim. Obviously, this situation does not pertain to you at all, I’m just trying to highlight the fact that you would typically have to do something intentionally dishonest and fairly extreme for them to deny your claim.

In general, we try to pay out most claims for covered perils under covered circumstances. As you know, they will not cover a claim that was the result of racing. Outside of circumstances like that, you are good to go. In your situation, you are towing a trailer completely legally and with an actual trailer hitch. There is no wrongdoing or dishonesty on your part, and you are on public roads not engaged in any activity that we would not cover.

One further example to ease your mind would be a DUI. Obviously, I’m not condoning drinking and driving at all, but for those who make such a foolish decision and inevitably crash their car, that is still a covered claim. They’re doing something blatantly illegal and dangerous, but the claim will be covered. That’s not to say there aren’t consequences and action taken against the policy after the fact.

In your case, you are completely good to go. The only thing I would point out is that the trailer is not covered for physical damage. Meaning, if something happens to the trailer, we will not pay to replace/repair it. You can take out a separate insurance policy on it if you’d like, but I don’t think that’s necessary in your case.

Darth Khan 09-30-2017 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 2985753)
There is no language in mine, or anyone else's insurance contract that stipulates your trailer must fall within manufacturer specifications. There isn't any reason to think they would win in court. Not only do their own documents not prohibit it, but the Owners Manual merely states that the vehicle was not designed or intended to tow, not that it can't tow. The manual language is legal jargon for "we never tested this setup, so don't expect us to cover anything under warranty if it fails while towing."

And here is the response I have, in writing, from my insurance company:

I never stated the trailer must fall within manufacturers specs, i'm stating that the vehicle manufacturer says do not use the vehicle to tow. (Regardless of what you are towing).

I glad you insurance company is so understanding and i'm sure most would pay. However your personal relationship with your insurer does not necessarily translate to all other insurance companies. I would recommend that anyone who is intending to tow with a twin do exactly what you did and get confirmation in writing. Because if you don't and your are involved in an accident pound to a penny sods law will kick in and you will be the unlucky one who has an insurance company who will do whatever it can to not pay out.

Or to put it another way , "Cover your ass"

sweetpea 10-04-2017 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravitylover (Post 2985509)
How did you wire up the trailer lights? I need them for when I have bikes on the hitch rack because they obstruct the tail lights completely so I want to hang a set on the outermost bike.

I also want to get a small super lightweight trailer to transport a variety of things.



*edited post to help not confuse people

Go to any trailer wiring site and they will have kits (etrailers is a good one). Depending on the amperage to the brake lights you will have 2 options.


1. If they can handle the amps, just splice right in to the positive wires of both sides and make a ground to the car. Plug your lights in to those wires and you are good to go.


2. If no, Well then you have to run a power lead back to the battery for 12v. You still splice into your tail lights but there is a control module you get as well and still have to do a separate ground. Again, just plug your lights in after that.


Its not complicated once you know the amps (or if its a 2 or 3 wire system). There are so many plug and play trailer harnesses nowadays with directions on which is the power and which is the turn signal its easy.

Jordanwolf 10-04-2017 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetpea (Post 2987410)
Go to any trailer wiring site and they will have kits (etrailers is a good one). Depending on the voltage to the brake lights you will have 2 options.


1. Its 12v. Great, you just splice right in to the positive wires of both sides and make a ground to the car. Plug your lights in to those wires and you are good to go.


2. Its 6v (which is more common nowadays). Well then you have to run a power lead back to the battery for 12v. You still splice into your tail lights but there is a control module you get as well and still have to do a separate ground. Again, just plug your lights in after that.


Its not complicated once you know the voltages. There are so many plug and play trailer harnesses nowadays with directions on which is the power and which is the turn signal its easy.

Could you not just get an external battery?

Dadhawk 10-04-2017 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2985411)
There is a huge market for motorcycle trailers and if they can pull one you certainly can.

another example...

http://www.thetexasrambler.com/wp-co...ng-Grandma.jpg

and of course there is always the Goldwing Tow Truck (yes a real thing)...

http://www.dpccars.com/blog/wp-conte...ows-cars-7.jpg

gtengr 10-04-2017 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadhawk (Post 2987424)

Is that south Alabama or north?

Stang70Fastback 10-04-2017 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravitylover (Post 2985509)
How did you wire up the trailer lights? I need them for when I have bikes on the hitch rack because they obstruct the tail lights completely so I want to hang a set on the outermost bike.

I also want to get a small super lightweight trailer to transport a variety of things.

There is a link to the wiring kit I used in my blog post :)

Takumi788 10-04-2017 12:18 PM

Just buy THIS for the wiring and be done with it. Works great for me.

Dadhawk 10-04-2017 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtengr (Post 2987428)
Is that south Alabama or north?

Well, don't really know :)

The source page is Texas but didn't start there. Did an image search but couldn't really find the origin. Regardless..go Grandma!

sweetpea 10-05-2017 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 2987420)
Could you not just get an external battery?



I suppose you could do that. It won't charge as you drive though. I've installed trailer wiring on about 5 vehicles from trucks (which are usually 12v 2-wire and ready to tow) to minivans which are a PITA to do.

Jordanwolf 10-05-2017 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetpea (Post 2988198)
I suppose you could do that. It won't charge as you drive though. I've installed trailer wiring on about 5 vehicles from trucks (which are usually 12v and ready to tow) to minivans which are a PITA to do and the lights are 6v.

I only bring that up because depending on frequency of use it may be less hassle to just hook it up to a battery? yah?

Dadhawk 10-05-2017 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetpea (Post 2988198)
I suppose you could do that. It won't charge as you drive though. I've installed trailer wiring on about 5 vehicles from trucks (which are usually 12v and ready to tow) to minivans which are a PITA to do and the lights are 6v.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 2988202)
I only bring that up because depending on frequency of use it may be less hassle to just hook it up to a battery? yah?

Not sure that would work because it wouldn't activate the brake lights on the trailer when you press the pedal, unless I'm missing something. Hooking the trailer lights directly to a battery would illuminate them, but that's about all.

Jordanwolf 10-05-2017 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadhawk (Post 2988208)
Not sure that would work because it wouldn't activate the brake lights on the trailer when you press the pedal, unless I'm missing something. Hooking the trailer lights directly to a battery would illuminate them, but that's about all.

Well the battery as the power source and then wiring work could be minimized? Idunno, thinking about it now (I didn't really think about it to begin with) it may be more work to use a battery than to just hardwire

Dadhawk 10-05-2017 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 2988214)
Well the battery as the power source and then wiring work could be minimized? Idunno, thinking about it now (I didn't really think about it to begin with) it may be more work to use a battery than to just hardwire

If you are really concerned about doing the install, check with U-Haul. The usually will install a hitch for about $100 plus cost of the hitch. Better to have someone do it right.

Jordanwolf 10-05-2017 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadhawk (Post 2988220)
If you are really concerned about doing the install, check with U-Haul. The usually will install a hitch for about $100 plus cost of the hitch. Better to have someone do it right.

Good tip, maybe in a couple of years though when I finally decide to go to an all day track day :)

extrashaky 10-05-2017 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtengr (Post 2987428)
Is that south Alabama or north?

Sorry to burst your stereotype, but that's not Alabama. Alabama has a helmet law and aggressive police who would likely perform a pit maneuver on the old lady to stop them for multiple tickets.

It looks more like something I'd see down here in Florida, especially around The Villages. Fun Fact: The Villages has one of the highest STD rates in the country. They wouldn't worry too much about exhaust fumes or head injuries.

http://www.thevillagesguide.com/photo/goldwingers.jpeg

sweetpea 10-05-2017 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf (Post 2988214)
Well the battery as the power source and then wiring work could be minimized? Idunno, thinking about it now (I didn't really think about it to begin with) it may be more work to use a battery than to just hardwire



Maybe I misunderstood your question.


*edited

1. If your car is low amperage 3-wire then you need the converter box that was shown in the link. This takes the signal from the brakes, lights, turn signals and sends them to the trailer


2. Many trailers are 12v systems. So the low amperage car system won't light it and/or it only sends a signal to the turn signals as they are wired from the primary brake lights. the box decodes all of this and allows you to send it to the trailer.


3. When you said you wanted to use a separate battery to run the trailer lights......you can do that. But it would only be for the 12v primary wire that powers the distribution box. You still have to splice into/use a wire harness into on the main tail lights/turn signals. The 12v lead is only for power, not the signal of what to do. So you can use an external battery....but really its like 20mins work to run a lead from the trunk to the front of the car. You only have to pull the panel up by the floorboard on the battery side. The rest you can fish it through (I just did the same thing to my 2014, but it was the backup camera cord I ran to the stereo. Could have easily went through the dash to the battery at that point.


If you are familiar with car stereo amps....its similar to how they operate. You plug the amp directly to a 12v source. Then there is a signal wire that tells it to turn on (from your radio). This is how the newer car lights work in simplified terms. You need that 12v source for powering the trailer lights and you need the taillight source to be your signal wire for brakes/lights/turn. The box decodes all that and sends the signals to the trailer lights...but uses the power from the battery, not the car tail lights as there isn't enough amperage there.


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