Totally off topic but... BRZ tS or Civic Type R? O_O
 

Soooooooo... am I the only one who has been eyeing for a BRZ either this year or 2018 all to turn 180 when they released the CTR? FWD vs RWD? Thoughts anyone? Totally different animals I know but for some reason my inner 8 year old is getting pulled towards the CTR.

[Wrong forum area for this. Expect the thread to be moved.]

The CTR review embargo ends next week, so watch out for assessments later in the week - initial comments on social media look promising.

If I lived in an area where abundant twisty roads were within a reasonable driving distance, I probably wouldn't be giving the CTR much attention and await the arrival of the PP BRZ in Canada (or splurge irresponsibly on a Miata RF). But I abide in the heart of Gridville, Ontario, where my driving pleasure has to be extracted from ruler-straight roads and highways, as well as traffic-laden right-angle intersections, with only the occasional on- or off-ramp available for relief. Within a few hours' drive there is only one tiny area with a few winding roads (in the Caledon hills) and that's by all accounts heavily policed.

This context greatly increases the relative appeal of the Type R to me; its handling may not be quite as subtle but I'd get to enjoy real power, something I can make much more use of in my context. The R's highly adjustable suspension also holds appeal - it apparently can go from comfortable cruiser to track weapon at the flick of a drive mode switch thanks in large part to its advanced three-chamber adjustable shocks.

I'm in the exact same situation you are... sigh guess I'll wait for the embargo to lift to read some reviews.

Both completely different cars. CTR costing more and more rare.

If you live in a big area, good luck finding one. CTR will be sold out most of everywhere.

I did look at replacing my BRZ a couple of years ago with the previous shape Type R the FK2, I'm not sure if you got that in the states. Anyway it was a very capable car and incredibly quick, the handling and driving dynamics were brilliant. I could happily have used it for the daily usage, the adjustable suspension did make a noticeable difference.
However it just lacked that extra feel you get from a twin (the RWD edge I guess), which is one of the reasons why I didn't end up buying one. The other was the cost at the time.

Would I buy a new one? Yes if I needed a car with 4 doors and 5 usable seats.

From what I've seen on the CTR forums it looks like this year's allocation is claimed already. Good chance I'm wrong since I don't traffic much there, just took a little peak inside a few days ago.

On the other hand, I've test driven a PP two times now and have come away deeply impressed. All of the little changes to indeed add up to more than a sum of their parts as indicated in a review that's floating around. The suspension is smoother than my 2015 while having sharper turn in. Subaru has really figured out their chassis setup with this car.

Yes

BRZ all the way. I just can't FWD. I can't.


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I hate the look of the new Hondas. BRZ all the way.

That's initially true for just about every Next Big Thing to hit, but a demand-supply equilibrium is nearly always established eventually, although patience may be needed. The Focus RS was very hard to get after the initial rush of gushing reviews (albeit a bit less difficult here in Canada). But now 18 months or so out, they are reported to be going out the door for near invoice in several US regions, and are sitting in many dealers' lots.

My prediction for the CTR: in Canada, an order placed by the end of this year for a 2018 will be fulfilled in about 6-8 months - although you'll be paying full MSRP. Of course that may just be wishful thinking.

No you wouldn't, because the CTR is (and always has been) a four seater....

Alonso needs to carjack one of the CTRs on display at the Montreal F1 circuit for the race tomorrow - it would give him a better chance of actually making it to the finish line.

the ctr is probably going to be the better car and performer but its also a lot more expensive. at least here in america i imagine.

I am waiting for Subaru to have a BRZ Sti with 2.4L DIT and 340hp. Would be a much better car than CTR. But I won't mind to have Honda's MT.

Just no way I would ever buy a honda. Especially a front wheel drive honda. Seriously the CTR looks like a bad rendition of the STI.

I could get a base Civic for around $20,000 USD. The Type R is around 35K.

Base BRZ is around $25k, the tS will most likely be low $30's.

I don't care about brands, badges or limited editions or resale values. I could buy a base model of either of these cars and spend the difference on mods and make them perform better than the upgraded variant. Especially the Civic- AND I'd have a lot more fun in the process. In the case of the Civic I'd spend a little extra get an upgrade package with a LSD and maybe a brake package. But with the difference in price to a Type R, I could make something a lot better than the Type R is. You pay a lot for badges.

As for the tS- The price difference will be at least $5,000 USD and with that kind of jack you can upgrade the suspension and add forced induction. It'd end up being a lot faster and more fun than a bunch of badges. Plus if I got a tS or Type R package, I wouldn't want to mod it at all and what fun would that be?

Maybe. My sister leads the Finance department at Honda Canada and I asked her to give me a ball park. She said Canada's allocation is in the low hundreds or about 1 per dealership (larger ones *might* get 2). I'm not sure what the 2018 production looks like though.

Edit: I stand corrected. I just noticed there are fewer seat belts in the FK8, so you are right!

Really? You honestly think you'd be able to source and install the following for $14,000?

-the adjustable 3 valve dampers
-dual axis front suspension
-manual transmission
-helical LSD
-K20C1 engine (base Civic doesn't even come with the 1.5 T)
-valved exhaust
-extra chassis bracing
-aluminum body parts
-13.8"/12" front/rear Brembos
-20" wheels with Continental Sport 6s
-functional aero kit
-race seats

And that's ignoring the cost of chassis, wind tunnel and ECU tuning. Oh, we are also ignoring ensuring your build quality is up to Honda's standards and that your build is reliable enough to match Honda's 5 year warranty. May I have some of what you're smoking?

Edit: I'd also like to see you meet emissions while we're at it.

Yes, I do.

How much do you think that engine costs?

Current Bid: $200,000

Auction: 2017 Honda Civic Type R #01

I'll laugh when I see that car up for sale again in six or seven years for $20,000, and nobody will buy it.

Civic Type R over the BRZ tS anyday for me.

With $35k I won't buy either. Wait for the new Sti with 2.4L DIT.

Front wheel drive four door, vs. 2 door GT car....

Four doors are for families, and old people. Give me the BRZ.

Good luck with that...:clap:

CTR

My point it is, a similarly performing car could be made from a base civic. Don't be a dope.

Well it is a charity auction and that always sort of artificially raises the bid values since some are just donating as opposed to actually wanting what they are bidding on.


It is the actual first production vehicle so:


If it is NEVER driven...
If it is maintained in PERFECT condition...
If they sell really REALLY well...
If it is FEATURED in a movie or video game....
If the buyer WAITS long enough...


It MIGHT be worth good money. Just maybe.

No... your point was...

You could obviously build a "better" or similar car from the base... but definitely not for the same price.

It'll be worth exactly $17 more than Type R #15 or #40, which will never again reach more than 1/4 of its original value after inflation. It's not really a special vehicle. It's a four door, front wheel drive Honda Civic. Special versions of dumpy economy cars don't magically become investment grade vehicles.

LOL I normally would agree but if it becomes a cult classic then it may surprise us. Most certainly not a surprise in excess of $200K but still a surprise.
I also repeat that it is a charity auction. I doubt that the bids are so high because somebody thinks they have an investment vehicle and if they do they will be the ones in for a suprise.

So lets take a 2001 Integra Type R, retailed for $24k, put 63k miles on it, some mediocre mods, plug that into an inflation calculator and lets see, yeah you're right nobody would ever pay $34k for that thing, $8k is probably a stretch!

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-acura-integra-2/

lol

I'm actually contemplating getting one if I can find one.
I've been kind of sad lately only getting to enjoy my car when I'm alone (two little kids and no easy way for wife and I to just take off in the BRZ :D)

But on the other hand just how hard are you willing to push any car with two little kids and a wife in it with you?

The point is that they're not in it all the time...

:burnrubber:

Besides, family bonding :party0030:

Think I've only seen one review so far, and it was that the daily ride quality was not jarring, probably looking to slot inbetween the Golf R and the FoRS/STI which is probably a good place to position it.

If I was hunting for a 'family' car and had the money this would probably be pretty high on the list... hell maybe in 5 years this will be my family car.

:popcorn:

So he can only enjoy the FRS when his family not with him and that changes how?


Agreed that it would be a far superior family car but if he can only enjoy it when by himself then there is no benefit in changing.

Oh come on, do you really not understand the appeal of owning one car? Or having two vastly different cars? And that you don't have to be driving at 10/10ths to enjoy a car? Hell if anything one of the most satisfying things about my 86 is just driving it around town and rowing the gears, I found a second review where the journalist basically had an orgasm describing the gearbox in the CTR.

Sometimes a car can put a smile on your face just taking off sedately from a stoplight and staying 2 under the speed limit.

Don't know if I'll ever be able to justify THAT MUCH money for such an UGLY car.
Did you know there's an opening in one of the many grills and vents just so the horn will be exposed to meet regulations?

LOL I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. We don't know that the FRS is the only car and his complaint was that he could ONLY enjoy the FRS when he was by himself. If he could ONLY enjoy it when by himself then what is the benefit of replacing it with another that still has to be driven under the same conditions?
I agree 100% with all your points.