WARNING: Top Speed Auto Exhaust, ect.
 

Update! :mad0259: I got back an email from josh and he offered me $289 for a refund leaving me at a net loss of $129.38!!! Serisously F%CK these guys! They are not worth your time or money, go eBay exhaust if you want to be cheap...

TLDR: Top Speed Auto screwed me out of $418.38 because of a mistake that they made and I tried to help them fix. Don’t bother dealing with these crooks and their sub par products!

I am new to the BRZ/FR-S/86 community, but I am not new to the car community as a whole. I have a very good reputation and a great amount of participation in the forums at T4R.org while I was building my 2000 Toyota 4Runner. A quick TLDR on that is that I built an overland camping rig out of it, 5 speed manual, and TRD Supercharged, fun right? Well I wanted to get into the sport car scene so I picked up a 2017 Toyota 86 about a month ago and wanted to get an exhaust for it as my first mod. That’s when this whole ordeal started that I am about to describe for you so you don’t make the same mistake that I do.
I wanted a quieter exhaust and didn’t really want to go full cat back so I did some research and opted for the 2013-Up Top Speed Auto Axle Back.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/pictu...ictureid=10852

I ordered the exhaust using their 10% off coupon they have posted all over the forums and on Facebook for a total of $359.99 shipped. Waited almost a week for the exhaust to ship, a little annoying, but not my issue. Upon receiving the exhaust I immediately went to install the exhaust because I wanted it on my car for my business trip to Kansas city the following day. After some messing around getting the old exhaust off and the hangers all connected on the new exhaust I noticed the exhaust flanges on the 2017 model year is bigger! Not a big deal, I immediately contacted Top Speed Auto a note that I did manage to rig the exhaust with C clamps because it was getting late and I needed to take the car to work the next day. In addition to the flanges being different the exhaust did not fit well at all, one tip stuck out further than the other and from the back it didn’t look bad, but from above it looked awful. I waited for a response, but there was none so I called, I got the run around by a secretary who, because of the phone on their end, I couldn’t understand. Eventually she said someone would call me. By this time I was already driving to Kansas City, with the exhaust on the car, and I eventually get a call from a gentleman named Josh Lynch. Josh didn’t take long before he openly admitted that they had no idea that this exhaust did not fit the 2017’s and he offered me a choice to exchange the exhaust for a catback, which fit, or to send it back for a full refund. I had a very good conversation with him in regard to the exhaust and I offered him a dimensioned drawing of the 2017 exhaust flange that I had made the day I tried to install the exhaust. At this time I also informed him that the exhaust had been rigged with c-clamps and that I had to drive to Kansas on it, I even offered to drive the extra 7 hours down to Dallas to exchange the exhaust in person on my dime, he declined. He did say that was fine that the exhaust was on the car though unfortunately he said that over the phone. In regard to the fitment issues he responded “oh, that’s a known issue, most people fix it by removing one hanger”, SERIOUSLY!?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/pictu...ictureid=10854

Here is where things get hairy, upon my return of the exhaust which cost me $58.39 to ship back I get an email back that says I will need to pay a 20% restocking fee because the exhaust is used, even though I had told Josh it was going to be on the car for the trip to KS and back! I told him that was unacceptable and that had I known that it would be an issue I would have kept the exhaust and sold the thing locally because I was out that money plus the return shipping. He told me he would see what he could do about that and promptly I get a $100 invoice from Top Speed’s PayPal. Apparently this was for the up charge for the Catback which was supposed to be a straight exchange because they had their item on their website listed incorrectly! This is when I noticed that they had updated their webpage to show the correct year range fitment of 2013-2016, using the information that I provided to correct the listing!


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/pictu...ictureid=10853


Not only are these guys trying to screw me over by making me pay more, because they changed the webpage when I filed a report with Paypal it was declined because “The listing accurately described the item you received.” Which is not even close to true!

Now I am out $418.38, with no exhaust, and no means to get the exhaust or the money back from Top Speed Auto. Buyer beware their products do not fit correctly and they are not willing to work with people on fixes.

Update! I got back an email from josh and he offered me $289 for a refund leaving me at a net loss of $129.38!!! Serisously F%CK these guys! They are not worth your time or money, go eBay exhaust if you want to be cheap...

Being a Guinea pig or a Beta Tester is NOT a bad thing if you know going in. I had a similar situation with Borla nearly 30 years ago, but they made it completely right, and very quickly.

You did some things wrong, that does not absolve them of their responsibility, but it gives them an out.

Everyone wants to get their farkles quickly and get them on right away. I have a drive, I have a race, I want to impress my date on Tuesday....etc.

Your need to do it quickly is NOT their problem. Your drive to KC is NOT their problem. You using the product even though it was not acceptable became YOUR problem. You being a little wishy washy on how you wanted the problem remedied added to your problem and gave them more opportunity to not do the right thing.

In hindsight the $60 return shipping and $80 restocking fee seems cheap huh? When you keep throwing good money after bad this is the kind of stuff that happens. They dinged you for another $100? that would piss me off too. Since the quality of the first purchase was not acceptable, why would you agree to another purchase?

You tried to save some money and got burned. You were trying to get something that typically costs $600 for $360. That extra $240 does not seem bad now huh?

The reason we are on a model specific forum is to share in the community and one of the benefits is our collective knowledge. I'm not certain about that seller, but I can tell you there are quite a few exhaust companies on here that have a good business reputation. You accept some risk of having this situation happen when you go off-the- farm and work with someone that is NOT fully vetted by the forum. (I am making this assumption) You could have been rewarded with a quality product with great fitment and performance AND saved $240, but instead your risk was not rewarded.

I would tell them exactly what you expect. No threats, plain and simple, list your expectations. Do not give them choices, do not say "do this or do that". Clear and to the point.

They do not want you to visit because you expect an exhaust R&D center with dynos and such and they are just an office and warehouse. Chances are they just bought these in bulk from China and the design was just copied from someone who did the real R&D....that legwork was worth the extra $240, right?

If they ignore you- you can always drive down there and crash your car through their front door and jump out and stab the owner in the neck....but then the $420 you are out of pocket will seem cheap compared to what you are facing.

wow that escalated quickly.

Caveat emptor.

That's a serious bummer. Can you escalate it above Josh? You can always file a paypal dispute. I like my TopSpeed axleback (although I agree that the tips don't fit perfect... I haven't tried removing one of the hangers).


Also -- To respond to the poster above, TopSpeed actually has a fairly decent reputation amongst performance shops. They do a lot of their own work (although on this specific model, it is nearly a clone of the Greddy SP Axleback). Not trying to vouch necessarily for them, but I would do some research before you suggest otherwise.

Yeah unfortunately this axleback has been known to be ill-fitting and there are multiple forum posts about it.

As well as multiple forum posts about how axlebacks that worked on 13-16 don't work on 17.

Not having it in writting that driving on it a bunch was OK is probably the end of it. If you paid by CC maybe you could do a chargeback based on your screenshot (or try to appeal to Paypal and provide it if you havent already).

But honestly your best bet may just be pay the $100 and get a cheap catback even if you dont want to give them money. Losing the Paypal dispute already killed a lot of your leverage

LMAO dude. I am a mechanical engineer, I just bought the car new, and I haven't had any forum time with the 86. Typically if there is a company that is advertising an exhaust system on a site that isnt in a early 90's dancing jesus style webpage its probably pretty trustworthy, by no means did I go off the farm. And honestly your ramblings add a sense of humor to this thread so thank you :P. If you think them not making good on their promises was my fault then cool, but at the end of the day the bent me over for the tune of $130. It's not a $1000 and I make plenty but the reason the rich are rich is because they tend to not waste their money, and this was nothing but a waste. A lesson learned, but it is what it is.


PayPal dispute was filed but they had changed the website to reflect the correct information before paypal reviewed it so they denied it...

I haven't been on any forums unfortunately, it was what i wanted and it said it fit 2013 and up so I cannot be held accountable in that aspect, the seller should have known what there product fit.

I did f' myself by having a phone conversation and not getting it all in writing, even though I did get the catback exchange in writing, which they went back on. I just don't want to give them any more business...

It did come down to this in the end, I didn't post my entire conversation because it got very long and Josh also got very very rude. In the end I just want my partial refund and I am chalking this up to a company that doesn't need my support.

My ramblings? Lol, take a look at your original post. I took the time to explain what you did wrong in the face of what (may be) a less than reputable retailer.

Read that again, I TOOK MY TIME TO HELP YOU.

your response is to blame the rich......that's hilarious. The supplier is rich and he is taking advantage of a professional engineer? Lol, I see, you're a victim.

I actually feel bad for the supplier now.

I'd tell you to go F yourself, but it seems to me you do a pretty good job of that yourself.

Have an awesome day.

I wonder if you could appeal the paypal dispute and provide the cached web page, showing that the date the page was changed was AFTER you received your product. Just a random thought.

Oh my God dude, why are you so angry?. Go back and read. I am a mechanical engineer, so at the risk of sounding like an asshole, I am the rich... I was beyond pissed when I wrote the post, to the point of shaking, so it may be a bit off grammaticaly, but everything included is crucial to the background of this post. You did nothing to help me and i am not asking for help lol, but thank you for the input.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Actually, this is a big deal.

If I got a customer that said "Oh this product doesn't fit but I installed it anyway", it suddenly becomes a situation where they can't swap out the product.

Drawing fancy flanges for them doesn't help, because something at this price point isn't even made by them, some factory copied the original design for them. They can pass the drawings around all day, but until someone gives the factory an updated 2017 exhaust to physically copy, they won't make a change.

I can't speak for them but in my situation, if a customer told me something doesn't fit but chose to install it anyway, then as far as I'm concerned they accepted the item as-is. I would make every attempt to exchange or refund, but given that it's been further modified with C-clamps then it renders the product completely useless and is now scrap metal.

-alex

P.S. This is same as ebay exhaust, probably same factory or factories. I probably already know who the factory is, too...

I tried to find where I could apeal the declined case, but since it was closed, I didn't get any notification​ of this, I wasn't able to apeal as far as I could see. Idk at this point, been dealing with this for 2 weeks now, I just wanted to reclaim some of my money and be done dealing with these scumbags.

I used to work for an aftermarket automotive accessories company as a design engineer, a small one with only 5 employees including the owner, and we always, provided a label for return and gave the customer a full refund if our product didn't fit and it was for sure our fault, installed or not. I guess that kind of customer service is no longer a real thing Nowadays...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

You bought a facelift year car and didn't think to research part compatibility with other years?

Also, being an ME, I would think you would understand their position when a customer sees the part isn't correct, installs it anyway then complains. When you seen the flanges were different, why didn't you spend the 15 extra minutes to pull the Top Speed exhaust back off the hangers, and put your stock exhaust back on? Or when you pulled your stock exhaust off, make sure the gaskets match connections?

That customer service is found in companies where you pay for it. Look to companies like FEAL, Kartboy, JDL, these are companies that are putting a ton of effort into the product experience, as well as the customer service experience.

Companies like this simply don't have that, and it's reflected in the price IMO. Was that small company you worked for selling $400 exhausts?

FWIW I think this company is in the wrong. I choose not to purchase from companies like this. I use Invidia as my standard for inexpensive exhausts because they always fit well. I'm happy with my MXP SP on my 86.

Haha, I the research I needed too, there was no indication it wouldn't fit from what I read, which was quite a bit. I am not at all justifying me running the exhaust, the issue is I had permission to do so and as an ME I understand R&D. Their exhaust fit's the 2017 other than the flange and the issues I had mentioned about the tips, which is a problem on all models. Test fitting is a big part of that, I did way more than complain, I was actually quite understanding at the beginning of this whole thing, sent him a drawing and complimented the overall build of the exhaust, but after they tried to fuck me is when I got a bit cranky... Idk if you have ever wrenched on the exhausts on these cars, but the stock gasket is a crush donut style, not a sandwich gasket so holding it up to the new exhaust only confirmed it would work. Anyway either way this thread is not about me or how I handled this, so take it as it is.

I can deffinitley see you point there, because there is an inherent cost with good C/s. It is still paramount especially when your products have known issues like these exhausts (not the flange issue, the poor fitment and tip alignment). My company built offroad bumpers and rock sliders so we were actually running on lower margins than these guys would be... Exhausts are pretty easy, and they are probably made in china anyway, we made everything here in the USA with American steel. Because we were so small we couldn't have any "bad press", so customer service was a very big deal for us.

You are 100% correct, and if i was in their position I wouldn't have accepted it either, but I sent the exhaust back with their promise they would make it right and I had told them that it was on the car. I WOULDN'T HAVE BOTHERED SENDING IT BACK had they TOLD ME that they would not accept it! I could have easily gotten $300 locally and not wasted the $60 shipping the piece back to them. But they didn't tell me that so on the information provided I made what seemed like the best choice.

I guarantee its a chinese exhaust, and you're correct in saying that they probably won't change it, but the US retailer can request changes to the design even when dealing with these chinese producers, that's not a big deal they do it with Roof Top Tents all the time (my only experience with chinese distributors).

The C clamps did nothing to modify the product... You are all missing the point here, they lied about what they were going to do.

Actually, had you done your research for MY 13-16 axle backs fitting on MY '17 cars, you'd have found that they don't fit, and has been mentioned in at least 3 threads on here.

You wouldn't happen to be between the ages of 21 and 30, would you? Typically, they act like they can't be at fault, even though given the circumstances you've listed, it's 100% your fault.

Edit: Also, a piece of advice for your signature, I'd recommend either becoming a vendor on here (so that the forum isn't giving you free advertising for your company) or removing it, before the mods take corrective action.

Nailed it.

Not that everyone between those ages has these issues, but when it pops up that is the first thing people assume.

The participation award generation.

A 21-30 rich engineer. Don't you read? :popcorn:

POINTS!

Yes I am 25. You can say what you like personal attacks are a great representation of your character so I'll keep this short wise old man. [sarcastic yaw] "Back in your day" retailers described their products in a truthful and accurate matter and it was not up to the customer to search endlessly in the dark chasms of the internet for an answer to something that is clearly stated on a seller's webpage. I also accepted that I installed the exhaust and that it was not the correct thing to do. I did my due diligence and found an exhaust I thought would fit given the information I had. I bought it realized it didn't fit and installed it. MY FAULT! That is not the issue at hand though, and if you really want to make it about a generation thing go ahead, but lets keep one thing straight here. WE are not responsible for many of the problems that is seen in my generation. Who coddled us, bet you didn't put yourself through school, and if you did it cost half as much as it does now. I put myself through an engineering degree working 3 jobs. Make generalizations if you want, I don't care, I know who I am and how hard I work for what I have.


Good talk.

Also if you can find a link to an actual company in my sig I'll take it down. I just imported my T4R.org sig.

Link or not in the past what your doing has been frowned on by the powers to be.

Fair enough, I have no problem taking it down. I should have read up on the signature rules before copying it over.

I am done posting in this thread also, you all know my experience with it and you can decide for yourselves whether to go with this company or not. PM me if you want to debate anything further. Thank you for your time and I hope the rest of my time here is better spent.

-Alex

Good try on the generational gap, but I'm also 25. Just notice the general attitude of those in this age group loving to play the victim. You fucked up, own it. If I bought a part that didn't fit, I wouldn't have installed it anyways and "made it work" I'd have either, immediately contacted the company and put my stock part back on, or said "fuck it, I'll just get a different flange welded on".

But, working daily with engineers, I understand that you love to go through long, convuluted processes to make something simple work.

I understand your position completely, you're also missing my point here:

You, by installing/modifying the exhaust to sorta work, put yourself in the position of dealing with a shitty company w/ shitty customer service and drag this process out much longer than needed.

If you installed it, it didn't work, then tried to swap or refund and they give you crap, you have a solid case of complete chargeback or buyer's protection. But since you admitted that you installed it, it now becomes a "you vs them" case of who said what.

Honestly I understand the point of the rant, I just think you need to take ownership of the fact that you prolonged and compounded a problem that could've been avoided if you didnt try to finish installing a product that wasn't fitting right.

-alex

There's a reason why I have an engineering degree but choose not to work in that field. Engineers also seem to frown upon common sense.

Hate to say it but you don't have any ground to stand on here..

Even if you did have it in writing in regards to your drive, it wouldn't even be worth the hassle or money to take any legal action.

In reality, if you knew it didn't fit, you should not have installed it or "rigged" it up in anyway. Its very well Known Top Speed is company that re-brands knock off ebay exhausts, and that they have fitment issues.. Clearly you did not do your research if you thought this was going to be a 100% hassle free experience.

You would have been better off spending ~150 more on a Greddy or something similar.

no one has any clue what works on 2017's. Some stuff does, most does not, even vendors and manufacturers are trying to figure it out. Don't trust anyone unless they specifically say they've tried it and it fits.

And you used the product? I don't know of any company at all that would take back something that you installed and used on the car, so if they are giving you any money back at all, that is good on them. Never heard of the company, I doubt I would ever buy anything from them, but almost every aftermarket company out there would refuse to take back a part that was installed and used.