Newbie to RWD and Ice/Snow, any suggestions??
 

I am excited. Just got me a used 2013 Scion FRS-10 series, with 21K miles and no mods on it. It is a clean car and single owner.

I have always wanted to get FRS/BRZ, more inclined towards the BRZ due to bells and whistles but the 10 Series takes care of it. A bit of background- I wont be driving the car regularly. It is for fun and to get around town and enjoy it during the summer. I might be driving it about 5-10 days a month and sometimes might have a long gap of about 3-4 weeks in between. It will be parked in a covered garage, so won't be covered in ice/snow. Any suggestions about storing it for long periods of time without driving (disconnect battery etc.).

The car is going to be in Anchorage where temperatures are between 0 to 32 degrees Fahrenheit in the winters and mostly ice (not much of snow as compared to Maryland). After reading the blogs here, I am thinking to get a set of steelies and Blizzak WS80 205/55/R16, not really looking for performance winter tires. Just something to keep safe and be able to drive from 'point a' to be 'point b' without getting in the ditch. However, the tire specialist recommend getting the stock tire size and some recommended me to get the studded tires, Hankook I*Pike RS. One guy suggested getting Himalayan (never heard of them). Any suggestions? Also, using 205/55/R16 would that pop up any mechanical problem, rotor rubbing etc etc. The tire specialist wasn't sure if it would be a good idea to use a different tire size other than recommended by the manufacturer. The 205/55/R16 are considerably cheaper than the 215/45/R17 for sure.


Should I and can I install a block heater? Would it help for the 6 months of cold in Alaska. In Fairbanks they say it is a must, not so much of it in Anchorage?

RWD on snow/ice maybe not the best advise, every car dealership wanted to make sure I knew FRS/BRZ is a RWD. But I think if you get proper tires and drive slowly, it shouldn't be a problem. I have driven RWD trucks and Camaro but only in Florida. Mostly AWD SUV, or FWD Sedans and Hatchback in Snow.

About the FRS, how much of a reliable car is it beside the few quirks? Just like any other Japanese car, just regular oil change and maintenance? I don't have a heavy foot.

Any other recommendations or suggestions for a newbie to FRS?

Thank you all

Hello flyboy and welcome to FR-S ownership and this forum ......:clap:

No need to overthink the winter driving of an FR-S.

I'd suggest:

Get some good, dedicated winter tires ..... in the OEM size.

Be aware of the low clearance (avoid snowdrifts).

Drive slow on slick roads.

A battery tender would be a good idea for storage as would a gas stabilizer for longer storage.

I don't reckon you will need a block heater for the Anchorage area.

Keep up on the scheduled maintenance.

Stay waaaay back from parking stops.

Enjoy your new machine!


humfrz

I would suggest Blizzak WS80 in 205/55R16. Excerpt from tire rack:

Why is Narrower Better in Winter Conditions?
Thursday, January 12, 2012 by Hunter Leffel
Winter Driving"Why does Tire Rack recommend narrower tires for winter use?"

It's all about physics. Wider tire sizes have to plow through the snow which causes more resistance and a tendency to float. A narrower option, with a smaller contact patch, has more weight per square inch that helps the tire cut through the ice and snow.

In addition to the increased winter capability, there are other advantages to a minus size winter / snow tire. In most cases, narrower tires have a lower price tag. The advantage will apply in cases where you're purchasing a Winter / Snow Tire & Wheel Package with smaller diameter wheels. By decreasing the wheel diameter there's an increase to the tire's sidewall that keeps the overall diameter very similar between the two size options. As an additional benefit, the extra sidewall provides more wheel protection from damages that can occur from a pothole.
- See more at:
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/hunter...ter-conditions
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/hunter...ter-for-winter

Don't drive a nice car on the salted streets of Anchorage. Find something else to drive as a winter beater if at all possible.

Surely they still use salt there:

https://www.adn.com/anchorage/articl...ce/2008/11/28/

And notes here about Fairbanks:

http://www.newsminer.com/opinion/com...494561526.html

86 is very good in heavy winter. No need to worry. Just drive with caution as you would any car.

You won't go wrong with Blizzaks but should be aware that most recent reviews seem to think Nokian and Michelin share the crown for best winter tire these days.

All of @humfrz suggestion is good :).

Relating specifically to winter the MY2013 window hardware is known to occasionally bug out and refuse to roll up in severe cold. The hardware has completely frozen up for some people because water gets in there -- there's a TSB for it but your car will likely be out of bumper-to-bumper.

omg, I have a 10 series too,,welcome.

I dont know much about driving snow, but snow tires is a must.

Thank you @humfrz @phrosty @WWFT86. Great advise guys. The battery tender and fuel stabilizer would certainly help. I will do some research about battery tender.

About the tires, being a physics student my self, i can't wrap my head around that narrower tire providing better traction. But you guys have more experience and I will take your word on it. Plus it is only an inch difference and saves $$. Blizzaks are the synonym for winter tires I guess. $1200 for 4 blizzaks WS80 205/55/R16 and steelies? Does that sound about right?
@phrosty The car windows was working for now and the auto up and down just takes some getting used to. It reminded me of the 1990's corollas where you had to hold it down for a second to work.

I guess hearing from you guys, it seems a pretty good reliable car as well. I did get a Manual Transmission FRS, so looking forward to driving it and having fun with snow tires on it.

@ToySub1946 I don't think they salt the roads in Anchorage anymore, it is so cold here. I know, I will try to not drive it as much in winters though.

@FR-Sky How do you like the 10series? I am guessing the dash electro luminous SCION stopped working for you too. The dealer didn't even knew something like that existed.

NAH!!! MINE STILL WORKING LIKE A CHAMP!!!!!:lol:
I like my 10 series alot!!!

Not surprised that dealer doesnt know this model,,everytime i go to dealer for service, and i will hear something like where did you get your after market glowing badge-.-?

Once the snow melts, have plenty of spare windshields on hand. Cars in Alaska in the Spring with pristine windshields are extremely rare. Also maybe you should think about carrying two spare tires.

Nokians are far superior to blizzaks now. You can even get them studded. I have 205/55/16 sized because cheaper is better. I chose General altimax artic because they are cheaper, and they are supposedly and old version of Nokian, plus I don't see much actual snow.

For narrower vs. wider tires, narrow tires will cut down through the snow better and give you better traction and control. Wider tires have a tendency to stay on top of the snow and losing traction and control. You will be skiing more with wider tires.

:thumbsup:
You are one of the lucky few I guess.

@WNDSRFR, I will keep that in mind.

@why? I will check if they are available, thanks for the advise. General Altimax Artic are quite reasonable for sure. I believe the Nokians are more expensive though.

@Casey10, I agree with you, it kinda make sense. A narrower tire will certainly put more pressure on the snow and slice through it. I think more surface area will lead to more area to slide around. Plus the cost, and if they is no harm to getting narrower tires, it would certainly work out the best.

Even if they do salt the roads don't worry about it. Just wash the car in a spray wash as often as you can. They have upped the rust prevention on all cars so much over the last 20 years that salt is almost meaningless. Will it rust faster? Sure, it will take 12 years to rust instead of 14. Maybe. I live in one of the heaviest salt use areas in the world and you have to work to find a rusted out car made after about 1995. The day of the 5 year old rotted out Chevy Citations and Dodge Omnis is well past.

As far as driving in the snow and cold goes RWD is no worse that any other car. As said get some good snow tires. Good does not mean expensive there are 100s of cheaper choices that are just as good or better than Blizzaks. Drive carefully and do everything smooth and calm. Don't panic if you start to lose it on ice and remember that steering and even accelerating a light weight car can be much more effective skid control than hitting the brakes.

Oh, and one more thing which rarely gets mention. Be very, very aware of what is happening when driving in strong winter winds! You get hit broadside by a strong gust and it WILL scare the crap out of you. Don't panic and try to keep your reactions subdued. I had this happen last week. Came out from under an overpass at about 70mph and a the wind hit me and moved me over half a lane in a split second. I have never had a car so susceptible to wind.

Hello Flyboy,

Here is a physics demonstration to over dramatize the narrow vs. wide tire. Next time you are are shoveling virgin snow after a significant snowfall, try this. Take the blade of the shovel and push it down through the snow. You will push the snow out of the way and go down pretty far until you start to hit something really solid. Now take the shovel and lay it flat and now push the shovel down in the snow. You will compress the snow but probably won't get to anything too solid. But you have created the beginnings of a good skiing area. Same for tires but not as significant as this demonstration.

You can buy base model forester steel wheels for next to nothing. Just an idea that could help you save money. They come in 16's.

Finally, someone else who sees the problem with getting physics advice from a tire retailer.

I like the stock size for winter. But sizing down is definitely cheaper and gives you extra cushion that can be welcome if your roads have lots of potholes.

The theory of the physics is sound no matter what the source but I truly wonder how much a 1/2 inch difference in width makes in the practical application. Is there a difference? Sure, but just how god a driver is anybody that says they can tell.

Just to chime in on the tire size choice, 205/55R16 is an available OEM tire fitment for this FRS/BRZ, just not in North America. Go for it.

I have found myself having to run a lower tire pressure in the winter (30psi) , but I believe that is due to my winters having a load rating of 94, vs OEM load rating of 87.

I'm on winter #4 now in New Brunswick/Nova Scotia, this car isn't as bad as you'd think in the snow so long as you have good tires.

Not sure about the snow tires but reliability wise it's as extremely reliable and incident/trouble free as my Toyota/Scion (tC) and Honda (Civic Si) and more trustworthy than my Hyundai (Elantra GT) and Nissan (Altima).


The only preventative I would suggest is if you have a MT get the cam plate cover bolted on (this will prevent the smell of oil or a little oil leak if the OEM silicon gasket ever fails).


P.S. I'm a proponent for mud guards/flaps to protect the paintjob.

@Tcoat Thanks for that. I will keep that in mind, but is that anytime of the day or during wet/icey slippery road conditions?

@Casey10s I agree with you on that. A pointy/narrower end would slice through much easily, but friction wise a narrower tire would provide less traction due to less contact area for sure. But I think for snow first it is important to plough through it. I will be going with the 205/55/R16. Just have to figure out the brand now.

@Summerwolf and @cjny thanks for the advise. I guess for winters the narrower tire makes more sense and is more cost effective. Plus you never know what is under the snow and 205/55 might provide more cushioning.

@navanodd I wonder why is not an OEM in the North America though! But that is good information. Thanks for sharing. Where is it offered as an OEM fit, just outta curiousity.

@dneives I am glad to know about the reliability. Thanks for chiming on that. Last car I owned was a 1995 Sable. I have driven many cars but never owned many, so maintenance wasn't my problem. But to know it is more reliable than a Hyundais makes my day...:burnrubber::thumbsup:

[QUOTE=flyboy;2827936]@Tcoat Thanks for that. I will keep that in mind, but is that anytime of the day or during wet/icey slippery road conditions?[QUOTE]

Any time. It's a lightweight car and it gets moved around fairly easily. Just be aware and you'll be fine.

[QUOTE=flyboy;2827936]@Casey10s I agree with you on that. A pointy/narrower end would slice through much easily, but friction wise a narrower tire would provide less traction due to less contact area for sure. But I think for snow first it is important to plough through it. I will be going with the 205/55/R16. Just have to figure out the brand now.[QUOTE]

For where you are I would consider a tire with a higher ice rating than snow unless you plan on heading up towards Girdwood or Hatcher Pass frequently. Take a look at the Michelin X-Ice or similar.

[QUOTE=flyboy;2827936]@Summerwolf and @cjny thanks for the advise. I guess for winters the narrower tire makes more sense and is more cost effective. Plus you never know what is under the snow and 205/55 might provide more cushioning.[QUOTE]

Yup taller sidewalls are good.

[QUOTE=flyboy;2827936]@navanodd I wonder why is not an OEM in the North America though! But that is good information. Thanks for sharing. Where is it offered as an OEM fit, just outta curiousity.[QUOTE]

Because we don't think that rwd sports cars are supposed to be comfortable or practical. Market bullshit...


Hmm my skills at breaking up a post and multi quoting it suck...

Look at how skinny these tires are. And they are flying !

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attach...ubbie-snow.jpg

I don't have much to ad to what the previous posters said but I will say that the 86 does fine in the winter. I was worried to and was inclined to buy bulky AWD vehicles before the BRZ seduced me (my previous DD was a Lexus LX470). The biggest problem with extreme weather conditions is being able to steer and stop. And dedicated tires will help you mores then AWD, which helps you move, not stop.
Just use you head, take it easy and if the weather is too extreme, it is probably not a good idea to leave the house anyway. The biggest problem is usually not the car enthusiast (you) but those oblivious idiot people that have no clue as to what they are doing and loose their little focus on driving as soon as a phone screen lights up.

They do just fine!

Haha I see that, its not that difficult though!

@Guru and @Tcoat I believe you guys! Thanks for all the feedback and it is the other drivers who scare me. Saw a guy shaving while driving the other day!!

Maybe if it gets too extreme we can always attache these :bonk:
Attachment 148011

:coolpics: :coolpics:

I am guessing that was just couple feet below the normal snow that you guys get!

if ur on stock tires, dont drive it on more than 5cm of snow. if ur have snow tires the number becomes ~10cm

We are way down on snow this year. That was about 3 hours worth. We call it a "light squall".

If you are on stock tires don't drive if under 7C degrees (44F) even if there is NO snow. Snow is not the issue with summer tires the cold is.
With snow tires the number becomes closer to 14 inches (35cm).

I am keeping the snow tires on till it gets warm. I did read about the temperature about 7 degrees celcius where the snow tires are more effective. The summer tires would jst be like more like plastic on those conditions. Ill try to avoide the small squalls.

Well if you would stop sending your cold air south and Texas would stop sending their warm air north then we wouldn't end up so much snow!

buy another car to use as a winter beater like an old 350Z

A squall? T'is but a light powdering, a mere brush of snow.. :lol:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%20%281%29.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...9/IMG_2544.jpg

If they only knew eh? I am lucky that my car sort of sits between two houses and it doesn't get so drifted over as yours did there. Bet you cleared it off and drove away though!

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but don't let anyone derail you from the (occasional) use you have e planned for this car in the winter. You have good thoughts in mind, and I think you'll be fine. It's your car, paid for with your money. Do with it as you like. Not everyone HAS to drive a POS beater in the winter.

I have Blizzaks on 16 inch steelies, and they work like a charm. Sure, you lose some of the sporty handling because you've now got heavier wheels and more sidewall on your tire, but you'll appreciate the fact that you can actually move in the snow, and you're not gonna be looking for sporty handling right then anyway. There's no real issue with dropping down an inch of diameter with a properly sized tire to match. Some markets around the world have 86s/BRZs with 16s on them.

Anyway, do get a bettery maintainer for your car while it sits. I know Deltran's Battery Tender usually comes with a connector that you can leave permanently attached to your battery so you can leave that under the hood safely, and plug into your tender without having to use Gator clips or the lighter socket adapter. You can just pop the hood, hook up, and then bring the hood down so it is open but latched, and your battery will stay fresh. Word of warning, make sure you plug the battery in as soon as you're parked in the garage. If the battery cools down and ends up frozen, you do not want to attempt charging a frozen battery. If you start charging it before it can cool that far though, it'll be fine.

For driving, if you're not experienced with RWD in the snow, slow EVERYTHING down. It's an exercise in patience and finesse, and even more so when you're in a RWD car. You can totally drive like a maniac, but eventually physics is going to catch up with you and your dice rolling. Anyway, smooth, slow inputs, no jabbing pedals or jerky steering movements, start in 2nd gear from a stop to cut down on wheelspin (if you have an automatic, just press the Snow button when you hop in and you're all set there), give yourself plenty of room in front of and next to you so if/when the other people lose it you have time to react and escape without extreme movements, let the ABS and the other nannies do their job and leave them turned on (unless you're dug in or buried and need a little wheelspin) and just take your time. You'll get wherever you're going as long as the snow isn't half the height of the car. The nannies will make for some odd noises when they kick in, and they sound kinda bad when they do, but the car is fine and not breaking, trust me.

Oh, and make sure you clean off your lights if the car gets snow covered while you're out before you drive off, especially the rears. LEDs don't heat up like old school halogens do, so the rear lights won't melt the snow on them from their own bulb heat. You want to make sure people see your lights.

I just drove through my first good snow with mine a few days ago and it was fine. Took my time, made small corrections when the rear stepped out (usually when starting from a stop on hills and getting a little wheelspin), and the car crawled along just fine. The only reason you might look into studded tires is if your area is prone to a lot of ice on the roads, then you'll want those. Otherwise, just get Blizzaks, don't drive like a nutjob, and you'll be fine.

Clean the car up when you can to keep the salt and grime off it, and enjoy.

What is this "garage" thing you speak of?
45 years worth of cars in winter and I have never frozen a battery on an operational car once. Have never used a tender either. A battery needs to be completely dead flat before it will freeze. I had my old 58 Ford sit in the driveway for 5 years and I started it about every 2 months. That battery sat in the car every winter and when I finally sold it it still started first crank every crank.

Do you guys do the pedal dance when it snows? Whenever I try to drive in snow, the traction control light comes on constantly. Seems like I do better with it all turned off.

I never really understood the whole 'buy a winter beater' thing. It would mean that I would have to drive a P.O.S. for 6 months of the year, which is effectively have of my lifetime driving time.
And I would have struggle with crappy heating, windows that fog up and the chance that things break and it leave me stranded somewhere.
I even use my stock wheels for my winter tires, so I can buy some spiffy wheels for my summers. Like @Tcoat says, I just wash my car every chance I get. The wheels hold up fine. And even if they don't, it is not like we have some expensive exotic sports car. It's a cheap and fun Japanese RWD scoot, with a LSD no less. It's actually slow speed fun in the snow.

I leave the nannys on unless headed into the deep stuff then just hit the button. They have saved my ass a few times when I got a little carried away.

The one the OP said he has and intends to use for his car, Tcoat. :bonk:

As for dead batteries, if you plan to own a Porsche, prepare to get very familiar with that concept. They're notorious for killing their batteries from sitting because of how much crap stays running and drawing power while the car is shut down. Sometimes it can happen in 2 months, sometimes 2 weeks, sometimes 2 days. And it goes "D-E-D" dead. So yeah, I throw mine on the maintainer all winter, and during the warmer times of the year where it will see some use, I usually hook it back up if it's been sitting unused for two weeks or more (yes, it happens, because reasons, not because I don't wanna drive it). I learned my lesson early on and keep the car battery topped up after a few instances of coming out to a totally dead battery. I wouldn't want to take a chance on whether or not said battery is frozen when I find it dead, but that's just me.