Dealership experience - Thoughts?
 

I visited a brand new '16 FRS on the lot this past weekend at a dealership. The last brand new, manual FRS within 100 miles as far as I can tell.

My experience was sorta odd and left me wondering. What do you guys think?

Emailed back and forth a bit, got an internet quote for $21979 before tax/title/etc. Decided to visit on the weekend, so I headed out there. When I got there the FRS was in the show room, so they said it would take a minute to get it out for the test drive. The car wouldn't start and they had to jump it. They said it had been sitting for a while in the show room. (Side note, I stalled it a couple times and it wouldn't start without jumping it again - I was embarrassed!)

According to the online sources, it's been sitting for over 6 months in that showroom without anyone buying it. Anyway, we take off and do the test drive. Love the car, the manual felt even better than the auto I tried previously which I also liked. We get back and decide to go inside to discuss numbers. So here's where it got hairy. They bring me back the quote for out-the-door price, and it's nearly $24,000. It's not unexpected, with tax/title/tag/etc. However, it's just slightly more than I want to spend out the door.

I was originally looking at used FRS/BRZ but I thought we might have some wiggle room and I would love a new '16 FRS if I could swing a lower price. So, it's the dead of winter here in the midwest, the end of the year, the car is technically discontinued, and it's been sitting there for 6+ months. So, I figured maybe I could haggle a lower price.

Well, I think I was wrong. When I brought up talking about lower pricing the salesman got visibly upset and said he needed to bring a finance guy over to speak to me. So, the guy comes over, and he sits me down. He talked to me like I was stupid or like he was my dad and I was in trouble - aside from all the dealership "tricks" like telling me "I'm the winner here" and all of that. Then he told me the price I was quoted was already "a mistake" by $1500 but they will "honor it anyways". I said, well, it wasn't my mistake. I thought that was unprofessional.

I was so put off by the rude behavior that I decided to leave. They begged me to stay offering drinks and whatnot, but I said I needed to "think about it" and I took off. About 30-40 minutes later they called me and said "we'll give you $100 off if it'll do anything". Which, I thought was a joke.

I haven't returned their call. Am I overthinking this, or expecting too much? I realize the price is pretty good and all, it's why I went to check the car out in the first place. I thought I might be able to haggle it down a bit for all the reasons I listed above.... was that a poor expectation on my part? Was I the one being offensive by asking?

Would love to hear some thoughts. I may just go back to checking out used FRS/BRZ options because they're much more in my price range. I would have played ball on the '16 if they would wiggle a bit - or heck, if they were just more polite about it.

Continue looking until you find one you can afford. If that's the last 2016 on their lot they'll probably squeeze whoever wants it. I don't think you were being offensive. It's just the BS of car salesmen. Just my 2 cents!

Imo you're there to buy a car, not make friends. If the price is right what more could u want? By your description their behavior is a little old school but at the end of the day you have your car and they have your money, just as God intended it to be. Lol

Best thing you could do, you've done...walk away and think about it. They surely will be doing the same...thinking about the deal.

Not clear what was the MSRP including 'dealer processing and handling fee'..which is basically destination charge. I'd say that would be about $26,200 ??

If that's the case, sounds like a very good deal...at $21,979 plus tax, license. You might ask what their 'documentation' fees are. Some dealers it's included, some overcharge up to $375 or so for that fee. This fee may be included in the price they quoted, as it's a Scion. You can check online yourself for your state's dmv fees.

Most dealers treat us like shit, even in the finance dept...after we think we've got a total price. Don't buy anything additional in the finance department office ! Do not buy an extended warranty, don't buy any accessories in finance dept., get your own financing, or check bank rates locally yourself. Dealer may be able to match them.

You could ask for a new battery before you take the car. They can easily charge it to warranty...happens often when cars have been on a lot a long time...bad battery.

From a recent experience I had at a new car dealership: Was there an hour or so. Test drove a car. Nice chat with salesman whilst he and I in the car. Afterwords, when we sat at a table (the worst part always) he stated they could not give me the car at a lower price because they don't make much on the car. It was a small town Subaru dealership and I was looking at a new Subaru Crosstrek. His stating that made me respond 'Your've lying'. (They were offering me only $900 or so off a new car). Pissed me off and I walked out.
Next day I called and asked to talk with sales manager and he gave me a lower price over the phone..but still not low enough, if I was willing to go out of town, to a larger town. So I did not buy.
What I learned: Sometimes best to deal with sales manager over the phone. In your case...go for it now. Get the deal done over the phone before you go back in there and they piss you off again. You can arrive at another price and have him email you with an out the door price, including everything, and a statement as well, that battery will be replaced no charge.

Toyota dealerships are well known for high pressure tactics. Guess it has not changed. I'm 70 and dealers still piss me off. Do not feel bad about anything you did or said. They are shits and they know it.


They really want to sell cars end of any month. Certainly that's even more important to them end of year...which is now. And not likely they'll sell this car to anyone else in the next few days...due to winter weather, sports cars are hard to sell now.

So I'd say, wait and see...if they email or call you again with an even better deal. You've got 13 days to hold out !

Welp, first off, like @86geek says, don't buy something you can't afford.....;)

However, if that car is "right" for you, I'd suggest you offer them $23,500 and they put a new battery in it.

Oh yes, budget for some winter tires if you plan on driving it in the winter time in Illinois ..... ;)


humfrz

Price sounded darn close. Should have probably requested a new battery like ToySub1946 said , and it doesn't hurt to ask if they can split the price of a tint job with you (say a $150 credit towards tint).

They did actually offer to put a new battery in, and of course a full tank of gas since it was on empty when we drove it. I know I'll need winter tires for this car in my area, which is another reason why I was hoping to cut the initial costs down a little bit.



Thanks for the replies so far. I definitely will be waiting it out. I guess I was just surprised by the behavior. I mean, 9/10 dealers I've been to, the salesmen are super sheisty and I expect that - but these guys seemed actually upset. Maybe they were just desperate to get it off the lot without taking a loss and went into panic mode, lol. I feel like I'm probably the only person who has seriously looked at it in months. Who knows!

If it's meant to be it'll happen, otherwise there are plenty of other examples out there, even if used :)

what color car was it ?

A full tank of gas was part of the deal, buying a Scion.

And their getting upset...might have just been an act...part of their game.

As for winter tires...You might research on here to see what others have done...including buying 'steelies' for wheels...and what size tires and wheels work best on this car in winter. Balancing tires is so expensive these days, best to have snows on separate wheels from your summer tires.

Wait it out. You may have to expand your search area. I found my car 200 miles away. It was a better deal than my local dealer.
Honestly if they made you feel like an idiot don't bother going back. There's a reason why that car hasn't t been sold.
Keep looking, wait it out, that is if you don't need a car right away.

As someone who works in the car business, best thing a buyer can do is not be irate or think you're better than the sales person. Treating a sales person like crap in anyway won't get you anywhere but the door.

That sales person's mistake was getting upset at you for asking for a lower price. Rather than being upset that you asked that, he should have educated you on exactly how much money they're losing by selling the car to you at their quoted 21,979, which I'll tell you right now is a negative $2k at the minimum. That's ridiculously low imo, and that's to the point where I would let a person leave (after professionally declining their offer to lower the price). Profit is not made on new cars these days despite what people think. New cars is generally a loss of profit.

Now, you should watch out for dealership addendums (required crap that they force you to get in order to get their quoted price), like stupid door edge guards and low quality paint protection films. Dealerships around me mark up the cost of that by 600%!

As mentioned, also watch out for their documentation fee. Some dealerships out there will go to the highest that Toyota will allow (which is crazy imo).

Do research on credit score tiers and their accompanying interest rates. The score we pull at a dealership is not the same as Credit Karma or what your bank may show you. It could be the same, but a lot of times it swings very drastically for better or worse. It's more of a credit rating since it's factoring way more history than Credit Karma, etc. Make sure they show you your score and that you sign off on your score. If they don't show you your score after doing a credit application, then they're up to something.

Lastly, if that specific FR-S is out of your budget, maybe ask yourself if you are on the right car (as you mentioned, maybe look at a certified pre-owned option), or are you in the right time frame (maybe hold off on the purchase until you can save up money).

$21979 before title, tax, dealer/document fee etc. for the price of the car, and $24000 out the door price seems about right.

When you factor in tax, the state of Illinois is around 6% according to Google, so that makes it around $1300 + or - for sales tax. Add DMV fees for registration and title, and dealer/document fees, lets say this is around $500 total.

So you have $21979+$1300+$500 = $23779, which is close to $24000.

For a brand new 2016, I would say that is a deal for the price of the car being $21979. Ask the dealer to throw in Winter tires since they are already giving you a new battery. Just make sure they give you your factory summer tires in the trunk.

I'd say go for it.

Out the door for under 24K. TTL included? That's a great deal if you ask me. I recall when the msrp was a little over 25K BEFORE TTL.

If you like the car. No stories. New. Have them throw in the battery and buy it.

A quick glance through Autotrader shows many used 2013s selling for (well asking for)$17 to $19K in Illinois so $24K all in for a new 16 seems like a pretty square deal. Nothing wrong with asking for a lesser price but no need to get bent out of shape when they say no.
We do not know the other side of the story here so it is hard to say if the dealer was unprofessional or not but I don't get why people seem to think of car sales people as subhuman in some manner. They can get upset by customers just as easily as any other person. They are also not all out to screw people over since it is their job to get the most they can from the customer. They are not there to do you favours or meet your every demand. I am not saying to walk in and plop down the sticker price but when people make statements like dealership "tricks" or "games" they need to remember that as the customer they are trying to play the game and are willing to use tricks as well. Yes, there are some bad sales people out there but there are probably 100 bad customers for every one of them. It is not the dealer's fault that they can/will not drop the price of a car to where you can afford it. It is your responsibility to be realistic in your expectations and find something within your budget.

you should have asked them for the KBB price but in all seriousness you should have BLEW UP THE DEALERSHIP!!!

As a consumer, im entitled to death and taxes. Everything else is either my responsibility or a bonus. Ive never had a car dealer lock the door behind me. No is a complete sentence.

that's a racist question

After my experience there I kind of wondered about that too... that there's a reason why it hasn't sold. I mean it seems like anyone interested in an FRS would be all over it. I know I was until we sat down to talk.

Thanks for the long reply! Yes, I wouldn't have minded at all if they simply explained their situation to me in a professional way. I was just put off by what response I did get. As far as credit and everything goes, I already had a loan with a great rate lined up and about 5-7k cash to put down, which I did tell them when we were talking. So no worries on that front.

Yeah, I know the car was a good deal, and I realized it would be more than most of the 17-19k used ones around here. I wasn't bent out of shape by the price or even the fact that they couldn't lower it, I was just bent out of shape by the way they treated me when I (politely) asked if we could talk about lowering it. I've only had a couple car buying experiences, but I've never bought a sports car so I made this thread because I also wondered if I was the one being offensive by asking for something like that, or if I was making a faux paux in the sports car world.

I'm not sure if I ticked something off for you and if I did I apologize, but I never felt these people were subhuman or anything crazy like that. I realize they're just people trying to make a living for their families too - I just felt like I was treated less than nice, and certainly not professionally when all I did was ask if there was any wiggle room in the price, is all. Even a simple "No, sorry" would have been ok with me, haha!

It was a good price for a brand new FR-S. If they don't treat you right though I wouldn't give them my money.

LOL not ticked off! Reads more stern than written and wasn't really directed just at you but people with that complaint in general. All is good. Just keep shopping and the perfect one will come up.

As my late grandpa used to say, "The car will always be there!"
In other words waiting is key to the $$$ you wanna spend. Oh, and cause I wanted him to buy me a new toyota corolla SR5 liftback. Of course that didn't happen! :lol::lol:

Gotcha. All is good! I figure the same thing. Eventually the right one will come my way.

This is true! I'm not in a huge rush (yet) other than my excitement for getting into the FRS/BRZ itself :lol:

First, I would recommend a couple of books to prepare you for future negotiations (of any type):

Winning Through Intimidation by Robert Ringer. Contrary to the title, the book is not really about intimidating other people, but recognizing and defending against the tactics people use in everyday life to intimidate you.

You Can Negotiate Anything by Herb Cohen. Teaches you how to take the emotion of out negotiation. Cohen stresses coming to a mutually beneficial solution, which also means not getting taken advantage of.

From your account of your visit to the dealership, it seems to me that you fell victim to intimidation tactics by the dealership and let emotion affect your judgment. A car salesman is not really going to get upset about a counteroffer, even a ridiculous one. That was an intimidation tactic intended to make you feel guilty so that you would be more willing to capitulate. Bringing the finance guy in was both an intimidation tactic and a negotiation tactic. It was intimidation in that he was bringing in the "expert" whose "knowledge and experience" is far greater than yours, so you should just take his word for it. It was a negotiation tactic in that by bringing that guy in, the salesman was implying that what you wanted was out of his hands, and that he didn't have the authority to give it to you by himself. These are all ridiculously common tactics that people use all the time all around you.

If it wasn't the deal you wanted, you did the right thing by walking away. But you should have walked away amused at what they did, not upset or angry. When you recognize these tactics and don't allow them to affect you emotionally, they become entertaining and sometimes even comical. (My job involves auditing attorneys who occasionally try to intimidate me, and I find that shit hilarious.) When you know what they're doing, it can actually tell you a lot about how much they want to sell you the car, and that knowledge actually shifts negotiating power to you.

Since you did walk away, you're probably in a good position to turn this around to your advantage. You were probably right in thinking they would like to sell that car before the end of the year. Car dealerships and individual salesman are much more motivated to deal at the end of the month when quotas are due for incentives. But that date is more than a week away, and they're not desperate yet.

If it were me, I'd decide two numbers: What I would like to pay for the car and what I would be willing to pay. Or, to put it another way, your target cost and the cost above which you'll walk away. Then I would wait a few days until it's closer to the end of the month, drop back by and ask the salesman if they were willing to budge at all on their out-the-door price. The worst that can happen is that they say no. If they start the intimidation game again, just allow it to slide over you and let yourself be amused by it.

If they won't meet your walk-away price, leave again and stop back by on the last day of the month. If they have already met their sales quotas by then, they will no longer have as much incentive to deal. But if they haven't met their goals, they will desperately want to sell you that car. You'll have to be ready to buy the car that day or walk away, though, because January 1 resets the clock on their quotas.

Just have fun with it. It takes all the stress out of the process if you educate yourself and are able to get some entertainment out of their tactics.

Nope, just curious what the exterior color was. Manuals tend to be more desirable then autos. Color also matters ( pearl white tends to be higher demand, and the orange is harder to find the all of the other standard colors.

The last poster said it right! Wait until the 30th, or 31st....see if they are willing to take your realistic lowest offer.

I'm done buying cars...in my lifetime ( I only drive about 10k miles per year...do the math). My FR-s purchase was the last, and as long as nothing ever major happens to the car (ie. Accident ) , then i'll be rolling with it 15-20 yrs from now ( plus I have another car to supplement miles driven, the next 4-6 years...maybe longer)

I was just messin with ya...i don't post anything around here that contributes something to this forum...just a bunch of shit posting

24k for a brand new 16' car?... Dude I payed 32k for mine OTD, pear white, manual. I'm in California. That's a heck of a deal...

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When did you buy? If you don't mind me asking

It seems like a good deal, providing you don't suddenly get hit with a bunch of extras when closing.

There's a dollar point at which the transaction doesn't make business sense for them. If you ask, and they won't come down any further as time passes, the rest is up to you. I feel that most people drive away with a new car wondering if they paid too much, and the answer to that question is all over the map.

Do some math on it - as an example, saving $500 over a five year term is around ten bucks a month. Is that what would make or break the deal for you? Sometimes butting heads is more about pride than dollars.

I've always bargained hard in the past and done well, but with the BRZ the dealership dictated the terms. Very little movement on the price, and up the ass on the trade.

Did I like the deal? No, it made me sick to my stomach. Do I love my BRZ? An emphatic yes! Sometimes if you want something badly enough, the transaction is dictated by supply, demand, and emotion.

The other factor - if this is going to be your servicing dealer, you'll want to establish a good rapport with them so your not known as 'that prick' when you roll in for service. I'm not saying bend over, but compromise can do wonders.

Or, do you feel they are smarmy enough that you wouldn't even want to purchase or have your new car serviced there?

There are other things at play here than just bottom line dollar amounts

Thanks for the response. I think you nailed a couple good points. I got pretty concerned they might be smarmy enough that I might not want to deal with them at all. I've been to probably a dozen dealerships in the last couple of months looking at a few different cars (some FRS's included) and while many of them had a very high pressure environment, I never had anyone raise their voice toward me or belittle me. So I felt pretty strange about this dealership.

On the other hand like you said, supply, demand and emotion. I'm still considering this car regardless of the salesmen and I'm going to send them my best realistic offer right before the end of the year. I love the car and a brand new 2k16 with a warranty and all would be better than I had hoped if I can get out the door closer to my number. I won't be servicing there most likely - I have a local mechanic I trust to do the things I can't by myself. Truth be told the dealership is too far away to take it there regularly anyways.

So basically if I can get out the door I'll probably never see them again. If this one doesn't work out then oh well, I'll keep searching.

This was in October 2014 . Purchased a 15' manual FRS. It included the TRD package that's why, but I didn't want it, but that was the only car left so I was like fuck it.. :/ but what you're getting now is a deal dude. Maybe it's where you live? Lucky

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I think it's probably cuz it's the dead of winter, been sitting a long time, "discontinued" and it's the end of the year. I know it's a great deal overall, I just was hoping to be out the door closer to 23k instead of 24k. 23 is already about 3k more than I was planning on spending on a car! Lol. But I'm willing to work a little with them if they can work with me a little more.

Sorry to say, but I think you're on the wrong car for the budget you have in mind. A CPO maybe the car for you. You just gotta find one that hasn't been modded and was maturely driven. lol

If you look around in the purchase threads here a lot of people were never really able to budge on the prices of FRS's, but were able to get lots of extras to make up for it. You can try that approach, asking for good winter tires on wheels and every extra possible. Also try and let them compete with your previous financing, they might be able to give you a lower rate, and just allowing them to try makes them feel better.

But there is no doubt they were just negotiating and that is probably part of their usual games. Some salespeople have no clue what they are doing and some dealers let their sales people act like clueless jerks. And some dealers love hiring people that have never sold cars before for some idiotic reason.

Out of curiosity, what dealership was it?

I've had a few different experiences at various dealerships in the Chicagoland area, and have heard stories of many more, some are definitely better than others in the way they treat people.

That being said, $24k OTD seems like a solid deal on a new car. I paid $23.5k OTD for my used '13 FR-S w/ 4,100 miles on it from a reputable Subaru dealer in the area. It wasn't an amazing deal, but their pricing had been better than any other dealer in the area. This was also over two years ago, before prices on the used Toyobarus had gone significantly down.

As for a winter setup, yeah you'll definitely need that. I use the 16x6.5" Bugeye WRX wheels (you can usually find a used set for around $200-300) with 205/55 WS80s. If you're tighter on cash after the new car purchase, there are tons of deals out there on CL for used winter setups.

Also, lots of great deals on used FR-Ss/BRZs in the area. Not a bad way to go either.

If you do end up picking one up, or if you just have any other questions for local owners, join the Upper Midwest FR-S/BRZ/GT-86 Owners group on FB. We're happy to help out anyone in the area, and if you do end up getting a Toyobaru (or even something else) we'll be doing a lot of ice racing up in WI this winter!

Gonna bump this old thread -

I decided to buy the FRS, and when I emailed the guy that I would take it he told me it sold. So, I didn't get it. I felt a little bad the first day or two, but honestly I got over it pretty quick. The guys at that dealership (at least the ones I dealt with) were absolute jerks throughout the entire thing, even after we talked weeks later. I was happy not to give them my business. The dealership was Continental Toyota, Shark_Bait88. Also, thanks for letting me know - if I get one I'll definitely join that group!

With that said, are these cars really hard to get or something? I've opened up my search nationwide and decided I'm open to possibly flying out and driving something home. I've gotten some really good dealers (one which I might buy from soon)... they gave me a quote on a brand new 2016 manual FRS even lower than the one I posted about in this thread - it's red instead of white, though. $23275 out the door. But I'd need to arrange delivery or fly out there and drive it home.

However, I keep running into a lot of dealerships that give me a REALLY hard time about this car. All across the nation, no specific area. Everything from sheer blunt rudeness (telling me to basically F off and buy elsewhere) to complete lack of knowledge about the car in general. I even had one guy try to tack on $1500 of "equipment" that I said I didn't want since it wasn't part of the stock car (literally things like a $70 iphone cable, wtf?) he claimed it was part of the car and couldn't be removed. Got a great laugh out of that one.

I am probably going to buy one from Carmax. 2016 with 6k miles Asphalt gray, 20,500. Out the door around 22k. They wont play games with the closing costs since all the salespeople get paid a salary. Prices are no haggle and fair. I checked KBB and they are selling it to me for the low end of the recommended buying range. Car is immaculate. They check all the cars for frame damage and flood damage and do all the inspections. You also get a 5 day money back guarantee if you buy and you dont like it bring it back. ( I have done it before so I know it works and they do not hassle you ...they take it back!)...Carmax is also nationwide. Check it out...

This car can be extremely hard to sell, if you go on cars.com there are literally a handful that have sat brand new at dealerships for a year or more. Plus I am sure they get kids that drive them and can't drive and can't really afford it. And honestly you also get Toyota and Subaru car salespeople that have absolutely no idea what they are doing since both brands really sell themselves nowadays and you don't really need to do much work. So many dealerships are going towards hiring non salespeople morons because they can pay them a lot less money. When I was looking at BRZ's I had a salesperson literally laugh in my face about shopping online. I told him he was a total moron and joyfully told him I bought exactly what I want for thousands less than he was selling when the loser called for a follow up.

Also if you are willing to travel check out the Hueburger(sp?) dealer that advertises on here in Colorado, they can give great deals on brand new ones and will tell you up front everything they make you pay.