To get the Performance Package or Not? Thread
 

Hey all,

So I've been noticing we've been going back and forth on this subject across four threads and I wanted to just to make one thread for this so that we can help inform new buyers. OR chatter among ourselves, it's getting tedious to go back and fourth between 4 threads on the same topic.

First of IT'S NOT AVAILABLE TILL WINTER 2017!

I posted this in another thread but here is my research into the subject matter.

Add on as you please

Hmm.. i get the feeling this will be a popular thread over the next 3-4 months.

Speaking of your review in the quote I also remember, watching a review with the DK (Keiichi Tsuchiya)and he review the BRZ with PP and without and said pretty much similar things to the review you quoted. He praised both set up.

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He said that GT grade (US would be PP) is totally different than R & S (in US would be Premium & Limited). Even '17 R/S model, it's way better. He really enjoyed how they setup the suspension. Specially around the gap, he can go through the gap without worrying about flying everywhere. Instead damper quickly respond and keep the car stable and turn in is very quick as well. From street to track, you can have fun with this setup. Translations from Ichitaka05

I think it's worth noting too that most high quality aftermarket BBKs are going to be notably lighter compared to the OEM Brembos.


If you plan on keeping your car mostly stock for years and years, I could see the appeal of the PP. Like everyone is saying, it really depends on what you want out of your car.

I think fans of the BRZ have been waiting so long for a meaningful upgrade that we wanted this to be our "STI" when honestly it seems more just a package to make the car more track ready (minus the obvious need to change the tires). I love that its being offered but after doing the research it just didn't seem to be a match for me.

I thought my stock 13 BRZ was almost a perfect street setup when I had it.. to hear that there is new bracing, a larger rear sway on all models, and a retuning of the suspension setup I think the standard model is the upgrade I wanted.. not necessarily the PP which is geared towards track times.

For the price it seems like a no-brainer. That said, if you plan on modifying your car in such a way that's going to remove the PP goodies (ie - aftermarket BBK, coils, wheels, etc), then it's money wasted.

Agreed. I have always liked the idea of an STi model, but now I'm not so sure.

The PP is almost 35k OTD. A legitimate STi would have to be close to 40k OTD, even without any kind of dealer markup.

I will add some discussion points:


Many will pay the extra even though they will never, ever, need the bigger brakes. They will do it for bragging rights, the cosmetics it provides or the mistaken belief it will help them stop better. Although bragging rights and cosmetics are both perfectly reasonable reasons the whole stopping thing needs to be clarified.


Bigger brakes do not make you stop faster or better. This has been heavily debated before and some wonky physics thrown around as "proof" that they do but it is just not fact. Your tires will brake loose before your normal brakes ever give up when street driving. Bigger brakes do help with heat dissipation and preventing fade. On the track these are very critical factors but if you are driving on the street in such a manner that heat is an issue then you are doing something wrong.


There are many aftermarket solutions that can cost you way less than the package. I bet there are a couple of thousand posts on here from experienced track guys that state very clearly that for the casual track day all you really need are good pads and fluid. This package may be gross overkill for the casual track guy and is totally not required for street use.


As mentioned anybody that buys the package needs to think through what their future mod plans are. If wheel or suspension changes are going to be done then it is not a great package to get just for the brakes. You could of course sell the parts but you are still going to take a hit. It remains to be seen how well these cars are going to sell but if the dealers bring them in with the package already in place it could be a great bargaining tool when negotiating price. "Well Salesman Joe, I really have not decided on this or the new 86 but if you were to throw in a PP..."

everyone knows you don't need brakes to go fast therefore this performance package is a waste of money
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/mo...y-emoticon.gif

In SC our tax is capped at $300. PP for my son & me. :)

Slightly Off topic but we live very near each other. You'll probably see me driving through Greer at some point when my 17' arrives. I'd love to see your PP when you get it also!

<- Sad Canadian posting a useless post :-(

I've not kept up with the differences because I'm not in the market for a new car right now, but is there more than just the suspension and brakes between the limited and performance package? Something not easily replaceable, I mean? Brakes and suspension are common, easy, and relatively low cost upgrades; something like traction control or a gearing change is not.

That and wheels to clear the brakes.

The performance package is a good option for someone who doesn't want to make changes and have a factory car ready from day one. Modifying a car can take a lot of time or even many years. I don't believe this is something for everyone.

If you are never going to see the track or do autox etc, then yea its a waste of money, unless you really dig how the PP wheels look.

For the money though you get a TON of value. Better dampers, BBK front AND rear and wider wheels, any one of those things alone would cost close to if not more than that. If you only autox, those dampers and wheels will give you an advantage. I just can't ignore the value proposition.

Plus in my S2000 I went through brake pads like butter on the track, cracking rotors etc, until I got a BBK so I wouldn't have to worry anymore and waste time changing hot ass rotors and pads at the track. I don't want to ever deal with that again.

Aftermarket front and rear BBK: ~4250+
Aftermarket dampers: ~$800 - 1200+
Aftermarket wheels: $$800 - $2000+

Total: $5850 - $7450+

Yes they will probably be better, but you sure pay for that. I'll bet you could even sell the PP set up to someone that didn't get it down the road for more than you will pay for it now.

Mazda charges like 3x as much for the brembo + BBS package on the new miata.

This leads to another talking pint in which I have zero knowledge but will throw into the ring.
Will the fact that the PP comes from the manufacturer help keep people in the appropriate class in the different motor sports or will it bump them up?

Yup and bigger size wheels which actually might weight more.... I remember seeing something on that I need to check And then there's the sach dampers that's about it.

So like a lot of people said, I know there's a lot of people that like to buy something like this and never mod it sure.

But then again we are on an enthusiast forum, eventually a lot of people here that are reading will mod something.

And when it comes to that the PP isn't something you want if you're gonna coil, get wheels and change to BBK


The good arguement for the PP is again 1200$ for brembo, which... I'd imagine isn't gonna blow people minds like most think.

A good example to look at is a Miata Club and Miata GT 8 times out of 10 people don't praise it for the brembo they praise it for the LSD lol!

But still 1200$ for brembo

Lol it's a good deal but... Well this is why we are here lol both sides have good arguments, everyone wins I think

Currently under argument it seems, for example it's only a matter of time before the ND Miata gets thrown into a different class for having the big brakes, since currently it's Miata vs Miata from all years. The 86 class is a bit more lax it seems STX is always less political than the Miata classes or the STR s2000 classes. Most of STX is all BRZ, depending on regions the FRS might be the bigger number.

I'm interested in the PP for the sole purpose of the track. I'm sure the break feel will be much better and they won't fade as quickly as the stock. That being said if i can't get the limited with PP OTD for 32k I'm not going to bother with it. Its a huge discount plus it comes from factory with the breaks adds to the upside. No warranty issues to worry about

This is a hard question to answer. Usually in the "stock/street classes" you will be with the others at first, but that could change depending on how much of a difference the changes make. For example the S2000 CR was with other S2000s until it dominated for a couple of years then was moved to compete with Corvettes.

No joke - throw some RE71Rs on the PP wheels and if this thing remains in CS, it'll be very formidable.

Don't forget the gearing change should help acceleration.

STX was never the problem.

CS was the problem, as evidenced by the dominance of top 10 at Nationals this past week.

I was always told that bigger brakes are only advantageous on tracks. They take longer to overheat and cool off quicker (with proper brake ducting). On the street, larger brakes are actually a disadvantage.

I wouldn't say they are a disadvantage for any reason as long as you are running pads appropriate for street use. Some track/Race pads have to get bloody hot before they work properly and that is not a good plan for the streets.

TLDR; it's all comes down the balance. Can't have one part overpowering. :cheers:

Heavier wheels are a godsend when you misjudge a turn and hit a curb at high speeds. Track day hero indeed.

The Brembo's are impressive and all but what I'm spinning about is the Sachs dampers. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (!) but aren't they, like, 'the shit' ?! DTM, Super GT, HPD, Porsche Motorsports, etc. run Sach's components. I know of them as the high end boutique suspension stuff for motorcycles and I didn't know they did much outside motorsports for race cars.

Looking at their website, a set of CSS coilovers for a BRZ runs $2,000. Now I know, you can buy Sach's stuff for regular cars, too.

Just built one on subaru.com, base model limited with no options and PP, came to $29,660. That is deal in my eyes and that is without discounts.

I have my 2017 with no performance package and I love it; it's a blast to drive.
I'm not tracking it, down the line I MIGHT autocross it, but I mostly have it to just enjoy driving it every day and exploring places I wouldn't wanted to have driven the distance to in my old car.

It was under $30k OTD, and I have zero regrets in my purchase. It drives great, it looks great, it's incredibly fun to drive, and I love it. Period.

The performance package would likely have ended up being a waste of money for me.

I would jump on the PP if it were available for the base BRZ. I just don't care for Subaru leather or heated seats. So for me the real price of the PP is PP + the price of the Limited model. :(

One disadvantage of Western education is the omission of Geometry from higher education. Bigger brakes also provide a bigger stopping power with the assumption that your tires can handle it. They achieve this because the calipers are placed farther away from the disc. Even if the force applied by the calipers is the same, the stopping power is much bigger because you apply this force farther from the disc center. You can imagine it as a lever mechanism. Overall, this is also the only reason to have bigger rims. Just to fit the bigger brakes.

One thought comes to mind for those who are waiting and don't care about the color.

How does the Yellow. series appeal to you?

It's essentially the same thing just yellow.

Wonder how the ordering or allocation for it works

If my thoughts are correct those should arrive first and soon

I like how you quoted my price in the original post :p.


I actually wanted a series yellow, but I couldn't wait.

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You're not the only one who got that price it seems :) also some have gotten alittle lower but their cars have no package at all.

Yes this is true and it reveals a bit the thinking behind the PP trim. They focused it mainly for the people who want to pay a bit more and feel more special. If they wanted to focus it mainly as a pure performance model, it would be based on the bare bones trim.

It's called marketing to maximize profits, everyone does it. Take the Miata - you can't get their Sport package (Brembos/BBS wheels/Recaros) on their base model either - everyone pushes the upsell.

While no Series.Yellow has been announced for Canada, they did belatedly bring the Series.Hyperblue up here last March (with some dumbass name change) so maybe there is hope. The yellow is growing on me.

I had zero desire for the series.yellow
Yellow is a color that I seldom think looks good on anything besides exotic supercars.
Of course, that's my personal feeling and I understand not everyone feels that way.

Here's where I like to make an argument for the toyota but take this with a grain if salt because I haven't been able to prove it.

The PP has shown up on the Japanese 86 with the lowest trim, their racing and their mid trim, which is pretty close to Our 86, so possibly, I could be an option later on for a none Limited trim at least for toyota side. It's a possibility with no confirmation unfortunately.