I got screwed on a deal in classifieds- do I have any recourse?
 

Recently I bought a Unichip from a seller, ndreim in the forums here. It hasn't worked right since I got it and after a bunch of emails with Jack@unichip we've come to the conclusion that I got a bad Unichip. It works for a few days then the LTFT goes nuts, the car runs very rich, CEL, and in the end I tried a lot of different tunes, but always the same result.

Ndreim won't refund the money, saying he has no money. He also claimed he had problems with the Unichip too, so he sold me his problem. I left a bad seller review, but that's not worth much. Do I have any sort of recourse? I assume my money ($180, PayPal ) is gone, but what about the seller who screwed me in the deal?

How long ago is "recently"?
How long did it work before screwing up?
How have you confirmed it is indeed the Unichip?
How many people told you that you were throwing your money away buying Unichip in the first place?

Depends:
1. Did you send money via PayPal as a payment for goods (NOT as a gift)?
2. What exactly did the original sale post say?
3. Did you write any notes in the PayPal payment to the guy?

This is why I always use PayPal and pay for stuff as goods and services. Also always leave a note in the payment describing what you expect to be receiving "Genuine, working, used unichip for FRS"

If you can prove that the seller sold the unichip under the pretenses that it was fully functional, and you didnt send money as a gift, then you can just open dispute with PayPal and get your money back. Doesn't matter if he has a $0 balance in PayPal, you will get your money back and his balance will go into the negatives.

Paypal has a remediation service for this, assuming you paid through him as a vendor and didn't work the system by claiming he was a "friend". I've used that very successfully in the past in other situations.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107884


Proving it was faulty when received may be tough!

As long as you didn't send the money through paypal as a gift I would open up a claim. I believe it is a 30 day window, so get on it.


Although, it took you 20 plus days to figure out a problem? That is an odd scenario, but paypal will still likely side with you and credit you and lock his account.

Fun how everybody jumps on board with the buyer without even hearing the other side of the story!


It would appear that if the seller had "claimed he had problems with the Unichip too, so he sold me his problem" he would not be telling others to pick one up weeks after he sold his http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...38&postcount=9


I will hold my judgment until @ndreim is given an opportunity to speak.

Wasn't really judging one way or the other just answering the, "Hey, what can I do" part.

Wasn't really taking about just this thread but sort of in general (other than the last part of course).
I guess it is just whoever pipes up first that gets the sympathy. If the vendor came on first and said "I shipped a perfectly good part and now the guy says it doesn't work and want's their money back" then the majority of the replies would probably be "tell him to go screw himself"

20 plus days isnt an issue. I once returned a used set of Volk lug nuts after like 3 months because I realized they were fake. Took 3 months because they were put away until my new wheels were ready.

Paypal dispute window is half a year, or like 180 days.

I couldn't remember. I do a lot of online transactions and only been burned once, as a seller, and it was literally on day 30.

I like to see both sides of the story, but I figured I could help the guy with paypal issues.

Yes, it took this long to troubleshoot because of the nature of the problem which in the end (emailing Unichip isn't the fastest way either) and we came to the conclusion that the hardware is the issue.

Thanks, Summerwolf, I'll try Paypal.

You fucked up by buying a unichip when there are countless accounts and solid proof of it being junk lmfao.

Have you taken it off?

If the hardware is the issue will Unichip not replace it?

I'm not looking to discuss the merits of the Unichip or to troubleshoot it. I was hoping a mod of the forum would answer and maybe PM me about what to do. thanks though.

Forum mods cant help you. You have to either take it up with the seller, manufacturer, or PayPal.

You have given a member a poor rating for a product that failed well after you purchased it and posted it on the pubic section of the forum. Your trouble shooting process is relevant to whether you are accurate in your statement on the seller. If the seller sold you a perfectly functioning system and it failed afterwards that is your problem not his. The forum is not a collection agency so do not expect much from that. Now if it had been a scam or a shady sale then maybe, but there is no indication beyond your statement that there was anything off about the deal.

Actually, it didn't work right from the get-go and I spent a long time and a lot of effort trying to fix it and came to the conclusion that the Unichip itself is bad after emailing extensively with the manufacturer. I didn't jump straight to trying to get my money back, I gave this guy an entire month of my spare time to avoid a refund.

Since none of you in this thread are involved, I actually owe no responses or explanations. I tried to PM someone in charge of the forum who did not respond and so this thread is an attempt to contact someone, but I don't know who. If you insist on explanations and want to troubleshoot this problem, you need to stop, leave and realize that this thread is not a technical thread and you can't help.

The rest of you just don't know what's going on and I don't feel like explaining things to random people who have nothing better to do. If I wanted to troubleshoot on this forum, I would have posted in the appropriate sub-forum but since Unichip comments consist of nothing more than "it's a POS" I chose not to. However, Jack@Unichip knows a lot about this thing and he helped me out.

You posted in a public section of the forum so expect public responses even if they are not what you want to hear. If no mods answered your PM it is likely because there is nothing they can or will do.

On August 2nd you stated the chip worked perfectly http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...68&postcount=6

On August 24 you asked the seller to contact you because there was a ptoblem. These posts are readily available in the for sale thread. Now maybe you tried to get ahold of the seller in the mean time but these are the dates on display and that is a three week gap in which the chip was yours. From your early posts it would appear that everything was fine.

How exactly does the vender diagnose the problem by email? And I ask again if they told you it was a hardware problem then did they offer to make it good?

It is not coincidence that everybody says the chip is crap. It is because they are and always have been. The maps are crap, the interface is crap and they are well known for just not working. They have been this way since they first came out.

^the most confrontrational i have ever seen @Tcoat....

OH dude you need to get on more often then.

This just pushes several of my hot buttons is all. And it is here in the public section after all.

Oh and I would happily offer Help or joke with guy in another thread even while debating here it is the message he is sending not him that riles me.

3 things:

1 - This is more towards buyer & seller issue and nothing to do with the forum. If it was a scam, sure we'll gladly help much as we can.
2 - I never received any pm bout this issue. Whenever I receive a pm, 99.5% out of the time, I tried to reply that day. Rest 0.5% is pointless pm that IDK how or what to reply back.
3 - I feel like this is more towards review section than Q&A, so I'll move it there.

It's not a technical thread, but if you are going to badmouth a seller and unable to conclusively prove your point, then you should expect others to chime in with rebuttal or counterarguments.

Yes, your ability to properly diagnose the problem (and pin blame on the seller) is extremely relevant.

If you don't want to hear what others have to say, don't post in a public forum.

-alex

@Tcoat you sneaky little mofo.

Nothing "sneaky" involved here. Just the simple knowledge of how to use the "see all posts by member" section.

Hey guybo, I am truly sorry for the headaches I may have caused you. I have not have had any problems with the unichip with the stock intake. My 3" perrin one, I couldn't get the tune right because according to Jack it is not as easy as inputting the MAF table in, it modulates the signal. So, I gave up on it and went the OFT route.

The email you have forwarded to me:

"Donald,
Thanks for the email. The firmware and maps are paired together, and I doubt there’s an issue there. You can always update the firmware with the MapsQ software, but it’s not something I recommend. It can easily get messed up and can take a hundred attempts to correct.
There really aren’t any mapping things that lead to that fault code. It’s typically an air leak in the intake somewhere or a hardware problem.

Cheers,
Jack"

Talk to him about this. This appears to be your issue. It did take me a couple times sometimes to flash a map on there to get it to work.




I would not say unichip is garbage, there's no footprint but it is quite limited as what you can do with it. OFT is much more versatile and they upload new maps as new parts come out.

As to what you said to me about the frayed wires, that must be just the liquid electrical tape that Unichip recommends in the install video to prevent water getting inside the chip.

Thanks Ichitaka05, I didn't know who to PM, I didn't PM you. But you see the thread now.

I updated the firmware and it went off without a hitch. I did try the stock airbox with stock filter among other combos and each combo I tried for a week then the [already crazy low- as soon as I installed the unichip the fuel trims shoot down to -15] LTFT went nuts, and the P0172 came up. That's why it took so long to come to the conclusion that you sold me a bad Unichip. I tried like hell to make it work, contacted Jack@unichip and we came to the conclusion that this unit is defective.

Thought that troubleshooting was inconclusive? And that ndreim was a horrible seller? I dunno man. Sounds like you're spinning quite the web of mistruths.

I have no tie to either buyer or seller, but in the seller's defense, I think it's highly possible that the Unichip worked perfectly for him. The reason I say so is because I also have one, and it does the same exact thing on my cat as it does on yours, CEL and P0172 code.



I tried to sell mine (see http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104905) and was perfectly upfront about the problem. I just think some cars are more sensitive to this, like yours and mine, whereas it works fine on others. It may be something peculiar with our MAF or O2 sensors. BTW, my buyer backed out if anyone wants to take a chance on it.



Like you, I spent considerable time troubleshooting it, downloading many different maps. I could never find one that worked long term without throwing a code. Unichip Jack was ZERO help. He kept insisting I had to have a leak in the intake somewhere. Funny, but I've driven this car for 3 years, and it's never thrown that code without the Unichip installed. I wish he'd man up and admit it and put out a map to address it. I'd like to keep my Unichip, but not when I have to reset the CEL multiple times per day. And it runs like complete crap once it comes on, hesitating and missing at idle.



Sorry for the rant, just get all worked up about it again. But my point is, ndreim may have sold it in perfectly good working condition as far as he knew.

Maybe we should swap LOL. Maybe yours would work in my car and mine in yours!

My total fuel trims were terrible around -15 to -20 when I first installed it but I stuck with it since there was no CEL and the car ran well with perfect AFR. I used Virtual Dyno and it did give me more Tq and HP and the car felt a lot better UNTIL the fuel trims got worse at the end of the week then the trouble began. I tried 3 intake setups (Weapon R intake, bone stock and silicone elbow with K&N drop in) and a lot of different maps and yes, it took a month to troubleshoot but at the end of the week everytime the same thing.

But this thread isn't to troubleshoot because the general consensus on this forum (mostly from people who have never tried the Unichip...) that it's crap; so I knew I wouldn't get any help here. This thread about sums up what I expected- uninformed, unhelpful and unsolicited opinions when what I wanted was HELP (that I did solicit.) So far one person made a suggestion for something I could do about the issue. But Paypal won't help because even though we did a sale not a gift payment, the seller is not a certain type of seller (I can't remember the bullshit excuse Paypal gave) and they said to go to him directly which failed. Thanks for the help Pandaspur, I did give it a shot. I think the Paypal dispute resolution only works for the bigger sellers and not a small private sale. I ran into a stone wall.

Jack@Unichip did email with me and helped at least to diagnose that the Unichip itself is the issue. Why go to a forum full of unhelpful people (on this subject anyway- for a lot of other things this forum is great and very helpful but Unichip is strangely polarizing) when I can go straight to the source? I contacted the manufacturer who is an expert on the item and he has said that the problem must be a defective Unichip. If the forum mods want to see the emails, I can forward them over. But I'm not going to bother sending them or posting here to a bunch of random people with nothing better to do who can't help anyway.

So I got an item- what that item is is unimportant- off the classsifieds of this forum that is defective and does not work. THAT is the reason I posted this. The seller won't refund my money. Does the classified section have any sort of buyer protection at all- such as putting pressure on the seller, suspending his account, banning him or keeping him from posting in the classifieds or deleting the classified ads he has now?

I really just want my money back from Ndreim. That'd be easiest and neatest. Time to go to the next level since I'm getting nowhere with him.

caveat emptor

OK so now the seller has responded the chip was working.
A moderator has responded that this issue is not a forum problem.
Yet the OP ignores both these facts and carries on claiming defective and wanting the forum to collect his money for him.

I give up since it is ovious that no matter what is said it will be disregarded.

I never understood the "ban him" mentality. That's the most retarded punishment on an online forum that i've ever heard. Ban me, I'll just make another account. IP Ban? I'll just get a proxy or router, change my ip. Use my cellphone data to post instead. Literally useless.

Bro, you're not getting your money back. You knowingly purchased a poorly reviewed item that is well known gives people many problems. The seller owes you nothing. Even if it was defective, wtf can you do to get your money back? Nothing.

Not sure what bitching on a public forum would accomplish for you. At most tarnish his online name. Lmao, make a new account and problem solved.

Decides to try something that many on this forum say "never use a unichip, they don't work worth a crap".
Figures "hey with such bad reviews I might as well try a used one".


Is surprised when it does not work "worth a crap".
Wants money back.......Priceless....


Hey if he will fall for that I have a free energy source that I am willing to reveal the blueprints for, for only $100 with a money back guarantee if it doesn't do exactly what I say it will (more or less).....
And then there are these Lightweight Pulleys that are guaranteed to give you +5hp (+/-5hp) on the dyno.

And... UNIChip not prepared to help/swap/resolve?

well to be fair, it is a second hand item and I don't know how it was treated before. Unichip is not responsible for this.

The real issue is that I received an item that was advertised as working and it is not. No one seems to understand this concept. What that item is doesn't matter. Advertised as working. Doesn't work. I'm out money. What happens to sellers here when this happens?

It was working .according to your own statement.
Then it didn't after you had it a while.
Manufacturer says it is a problem with the unit (how they know this I still don't understand) but does not offer to replace.
You broke it you bought it.

Remember when you said this?

You need to make up your mind about whether or not it works. Cause 22 days later you said that there was a problem. If I was @ndreim, I'd be assuming that you fucked something up, and that I had no responsibility.

Not to mention that there was no warranty expressed by the seller. If I was him, I'd have also said "tough shit" to you.

Actually if it took 22 days to figure out a Unichip doesn't work worth shit he was way above the average! Probably one of the biggest scam items in the auto mod industry.

Fixed it for you.
The question should be "what happens to buyers when this happens?"
I'll answer that - You broke it you bought it.


Electronics can be sensitive. You can hook things up backwards, you can have an ESD event, you can even induce noise in a way that can make components fail.


Even if you bought something like this new from Best Buy, then messed with it for weeks, you would probably be pushing the limits of 'ethical' by attempting to return it for a refund.


Just the other day I fried a $20 electronic component by hooking it up backwards. I said "oops just threw away $20" and tossed it in the trash. I didnt cry about it.