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Need some sensible input... to FI or not

You can see the original post below quoted.
I think I'll limit the scope of my post.

The main question I should have really asked is: can anyone tell me how much faster these supercharger kits are making the platform? I can't wrap my head around how much the figures are really increasing the speed of the car. Is there some comparison or numbers people can provide, other than the whp and tq graphs?
I'd be willing to sacrifice some reliability if the increase is worth it. But that is really the underlying question. How much are people putting into it and how much work is it really in maintaining?

Quote:

Originally Posted by modbus (Post 2742749)

Gang,

I've been a heavy forum lurker trying to get a feel for whether or not I should go FI or not. I'm interested but worried at the same time. I'm hoping people can give me some guidance. Apologies in advanced for potentially very noob questions.

First off my BRZ is a daily driver. I really just want to be able to accelerate more quickly. I'm happy with how it corners, and I don't want to take corners any faster than I can already do it on MPSS's in the stock tire size. I *might* autox one of these days or put it on the track, but I don't see that as becoming a normal thing for me.

What I don't want is the car to turn into a constant project, and it becomes one thing to the next to the next. I just want to get all the parts, get them installed, and not worry about anything other than the regular maintenance. -- Is this already an unrealistic expectation?

I want to keep the build as simple as possible, like supercharged with the mfg's basic tune. With that comes more questions--
First, can anyone chime in who is supercharged with everything else stock? Was this a decent gain enough to keep up with say, a WRX? I see whp and tq figures but I just can't wrap my head around what those mean in real life.
Second, how many supporting mods are needed if that's all I plan on doing? Catch can? Upgraded clutch? Oil cooler?
Third, how important will it be to be keeping an eye on things like oil temps and whatnot? I live in Oregon so summers will peak at about 100°F and generally I will drive it in the winter down to about 35°F. Any lower and I switch over to my old 4x4.
Fourth, insurance. For those of you who told your insurance company about your FI mod(s), did that increase your rates? Did anyone get dropped? Does anyone actually report their mods?

Would appreciate any input. I've been contemplating biting the bullet but hesitant that I'll turn what was a simple fun car into something I'll regret.

Which of the bolded do you really want? These are two radically different desires really.

What do you consider daily driving? Is it 20 miles a day or 200? This again makes a huge difference.

How big a risk are you willing to take? Every change to a car increases the risk of failure. It does not mean it WILL fail but the risk goes up. The bigger the change the greater the risk.

How much can you do yourself vs paying somebody else? The fact you said you would like to SC but stay on the factory tune would indicate that you may still have some learning to do. Even if you pay somebody to install a FI system and all the supporting mods you still will need to fully understand how it all works or will end up in trouble at some point.

How big is your budget? Going FI is not as simple as slapping a $1,000 SC on and calling it a day. There are many supporting mods that you need to buy and maintain. It ain't cheap especially if you are going hunting WRXs.

@RedFR-s can tell you all about the ups and downs of going FI.

EDIT: Dude! The answers have not changed since you last asked the exact same question.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90928

I'd just advise reading through the owners threads of which kits you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2742765)

I'm just trying to get a sense of HOW much faster. I simply used the WRX as an example. Judging by your response, clearly that is not attainable from provided tune on one of the supercharger kits.

So maybe the better question is... with provided tune and kit, what supporting mods should I also need? So I can understand how much money it would cost to realistically have a good setup knowing I don't want to get too crazy.

I'm an engineer. I can read diagrams and schematics. I can do work and troubleshoot things. I *could* do it myself. If I need to understand what to look for or at when something goes wrong, I'm sure I could figure it out. So, how often do things go wrong then? This is exactly what has me worried, because I almost get the sense that you guys talk about it like it's weekly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weederr33 (Post 2742803)

I'd just advise reading through the owners threads of which kits you want.

I've been reading through a few of those threads... and I tend to see a lot of dyno curves but again I don't see how that exactly translates to real life in comparison to other cars.

Are people mostly just doing ride alongs with those who went for a particular kit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by modbus (Post 2742805)

It depends on what you're comparing it to. I had full intentions of adding FI when I bought my car. It's hard to compare because I didn't compare it to anything. It just feels... well quicker.

edit: I did drive a Focus ST and a GTI, but honestly, the FRS with a supercharger felt quicker to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weederr33 (Post 2742811)

I have also driven a Focus ST, so that actually does help me get an idea of what to compare it to.

I did once a test drive of the HKS supercharger. It was really fast. Especially more torque from low. The car pulled in the mountains even from 5th gear. It would not just keep up with a WRX, it would be faster. So, the feeling was very positive. If you want to get easy results and without much expenses, then FI is the way to go. However, you are losing other things and somehow it negates the real fun. Basically, focusing on yourself and on the driving technique and changing your car the hard way and make it faster while staying NA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by modbus (Post 2742749)

Why don't you head out to some local meets, and ask for rides from FI owners?

Quote:

Originally Posted by modbus (Post 2742804)

His response was based on you saying "mfgs basic tune". Not sure if you mean the factory OEM tune or one of the tunes provided with the SC.

Almost any SC you pick (with a proper tune) will make the 86 faster than a stock WRX.
You don't "need" any supporting mods to achieve that.

I was putting down a bit over 250whp with a c30 JRSC and no other supporting mods. You don't need an upgraded clutch at that level.

It wasn't any extra work to maintain. Very minor things like checking the rotrex traction fluid level, belts and making sure clamps are still properly tightened.

As far as "feel" goes... You'll just have to drive one and decide for yourself.
It's easier for me to get a sense of how fast it is by reading a dyno graph than it is driving it.
A SC'd 86 will probably feel underwhelming or not as fast compared to a WRX just due to the low end torque it has, but it's top end suffers whereas the SC is just starting to make most of its power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by modbus (Post 2742804)

So, how often do things go wrong then? This is exactly what has me worried, because I almost get the sense that you guys talk about it like it's weekly.

Well if your main concern is how often things go wrong there are as many different answers as there are guys with FI.
The experiences on here range from tens of thousands of trouble free miles to blew the engine on the dyno 15 minutes after completing the install and every conceivable condition in between. As I said before the modification of a car creates risk. The level of that risk can be mitigated to some extent but it remains elevated. Unfortunately the increase in risk to each individual set up is not measurable due to the number of variables so we can't assign a number and say "these are your odds".

You have asked if you should go FI in the FI section of a car forum and the answers yet get are likely going to be biased towards "do it" since they accept the risk. You need to be very sure that you also accept it if you decide to go this route.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew025 (Post 2742932)

I was putting down a bit over 250whp with a c30 JRSC and no other supporting mods.

Nothing else at all? Completely stock car other than SC?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2742946)

Nothing else at all? Completely stock car other than SC?

Correct.

Do you want more power or to just accelerate faster? If you get lighter wheels, flywheel, and carbon fiber driveshaft you will accelerate faster without the expense of FI. If you really want the extra power then as TCOAT said you really don't have any idea what your experience might be. It could be great or you could be the unlucky one that gets a blown engine within a few months for who knows why.

And modified cars become to do lists. Read through the experiences of these people, some talk about always carrying an extra supercharger belt in the trunk because they snap so often, others about constantly tracking down leaks and the like. If you daily your car a long way and really don't want to risk reliability FI might not be for you.