More Horsepower!
 

Lots of folks, on this forum and elsewhere, complain about the HP of our beloved car.

So if you had, say, 50% more HP, what would you do with it? How would you use it? How would it improve the FR-S? And please, no freeway on-ramp stories.

I'd do the same thing I've been doing since purchasing the car last year, drive it everywhere like a Corolla and hit up auto-x (and possibly track) if/when I get a chance to...

The correct answer is still

"it would be perfect with 50 more HP"

Too easy of an answer. Why is 50 more horsepower perfect? What does 50 more HP do?

Gives you some actual power to move the car with authority. You wouldn't have to keep it leaning on the redline just to get some work done. No more sand getting kicked in your face, no sir.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LxTJJT51zr...8/s900/at4.jpg

"It's not about power. If you can't go fast with 90 horsepower, 900 ain't gonna help ya." - Bob Hall, creator of the Miata

https://twitter.com/furmy/status/457174998596079616

But I can go fast with 90hp. And?

I WANT TO GO FASTER!

I'd rather have more torque. The HP on this car is fine.

Much as I am now, I would continue to refine other aspects of the car to suit my own tastes. I love the throttle response of an NA setup so I tried a new FD ratio along with a lighter drive shaft, which did wonders with both throttle response and in gear acceleration.

I wanted to see what effect adding some bracing would have. Boy that actually had a great effect with settling down the front end. Also just fitted the TRD door stabilizers but, I'll need more seat time to get a feel for whether they really did more than add some bling. The change in handling has me now eyeballing other bracing like the STI draw brace.

This article goes into some more detail around flexible STI braces, quite the oxymoron if you ask me, but proof in the pudding was trying the STI flexible strut brace so now I'm a convert.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/subar...s-first-drive/

Overall I'm working to massage the current package to be more efficient at what it does. Its become a really fun learning process for me as in the past I would do some light mods like a cat back + stereo and call it a day, but this car is constantly goading me along to try something more.

You could ask the same thing about better handling and suspension mods. You can make use of the extra horsepower in the same places you need the car to handle better.

HP=torqueXrpm/5252

Torque is what makes HP. More torque would mean more HP.

Unless torque was increased only at low rpm, or the high-er torque engine did not rev as high.

Look at the equation...an increase in torque will result in an increase in HP at any RPM. It's a mathematical certainty.

I meant that an increase of torque does not mean that the maximum hp (which people usually refer to as it is published) will necessarily increase. In cases I mentioned it may remain the same or even decrease.

So higher HP throughout the powerband but not more maximum HP necessarily?

Here is an example. Imagine an engine that has exactly 150 lbft from 1000 to 7000 rpm and revs up to 7000. (I know no engine is exactly like that, it's a simplified example to demonstrate the idea). The hp is 29 @ 1000 rpm, 86@3000, 143@5000 and 200@7000. Max hp is 200.
Now we increase torque to 200 lbft but only in the low rpm range. Eg. 200 lbft from 1000 to 3000, 180@4000, 160@ 5000 and 150 above that. The hp is now 38@1000, 114@3000, 152@5000 and still 200@7000. So while max torque increased to 200 lbft, max hp is still 200.
Another example: we increase torque to 170 lbft across the rpm range, but now the engine can only rev to 6000. Power is now 32hp@1000, 97@3000, 162@5000 and 194@6000. And that's the maximum hp now, 194 with 170 lbft max torque.

Agree. I find this engine quite peppy between 4500 and 7400 RPM. But getting this car off the line quickly needs a fairly aggressive release of the clutch and traction control turned off

I want more "aggresive" wheels and aeoro-kit.

Give it 50 more and you will still hear "but the XXXX sedan has 50 more" and "this car needs anther 200 to keep up with the YYYY".
What I would do with 50 more is probably nothing. I can already be above any speed limit in between 3 and 7 seconds (without bouncing off the rev limiter or even going to 7k). I do not need to trim .2 seconds off my time from stop light or the traffic in front of me.

:thanks::thumbsup:

I see what you did there

250hp would be better, but as so has astutely been pointed out, low end grunt would be much more beneficial. Being able to accelerate stronger out of corners and sprint better to the next one would really hone the working edge of this car into a sharper weapon. As it sits it will do 100mph in fourth, I have no speed complaints, just acceleration ones and that's a torque problem.


I know when it lays down between 3500 and 4500 I think, "man, feel that fuel economy!"

Fast car Fast> Slow car Fast > Fast car Slow

So to answer the OP, with 50% more horsepower I would use it to trash the stock components of the car that weren't design to support an output of 300hp.

Or you could just upgrade your diff ratio, add Crawford power blocks and call it a day.

This would speed up every gear and move the entire power band down a few hundred RPM. This is assuming you are staying NA and just want to improve DD drivability. Depending on the FD ratio I'd imagine this combo would (seat of the pants wise) get you pretty damn close to the feeling of having those 50 extra ponies.

If it's destined for the twisties or autocross, this might be a great trick.

I would avoid the crawford power blocks and get uels and a tune, it's a much better bang for buck and has proven gains and doesn't decrease as mods are added.

If manual get 4.56
If auto get 4.88

This is all assuming you stay N/A

My version if you care about effecting your factory warranty. Your version if you don't care :)

Why pick and choose when you can have all the above together though!

Because the gains of crawford bpb+uel are minimal at best, there are multiple dyno plots showing this, your warranty is void with either mod even the blocks. It's just a matter of what gets damaged if something happens

more torque would be nice. but there are two school of thought with engines like this.. some will say 'awesome I get to rev it out!' , and others will say 'ugh, i have to rev it out' . Neither one is right, you just have to see what you like.

Stock car is fine for me. I'd rather have better brakes (they run out pretty quick) or a weight loss of 200 lbs rather than +50hp.

Speaking to this point raised by the OP. I think people get too hung up on numbers when the twins are more about 'seat of the pants' feel. I care more about how the character and feel of the car will change than how much more power a set of headers and a tune will bring.

Sadly power figures have these day's become a dumbed down basic point of comparison between one car and another when they should really be used to help measure what change a single (or series of) mod(s) had brought to a car to help validate a change.

Right or wrong ... the people who appreciate low weight and adequate power make up a minority. Especially in the USA. It's all about MORE. Trucks with more Tq to tow. Sports passenger sedans with more Hp. American muscle cars with more Hp. Exotic/Supercars with more Hp. Hell ... even electric cars like Tesla is building cars with more juice.

I don't see this pattern changing much, but eventually it will have to change.

Would continue to drive it exactly the same way I currently do. The only difference is I'd get up to speed a bit quicker.

Cool man, exactly what this car needs! Even if I had FI levels of power, it would literally only mean I could get up to speed that much quicker. I don't get the need for more power. If they want to eliminate the tq dip, I'm all for that, but again, hardly noticeable in day to day driving.

Yep and this is not a new fad.
Pushing HP numbers is an easy sell because it gives something that any person can compare in a common scale. The fact that those HP numbers are used differently by the rest of the drive train and overall car design is not so obvious.
1947 the "only" car to give you a 100HP V8 (more like 80 if measured using today's methods)
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...2e7300a7b0.jpg
How about meeting the ultimate goal of "1 HP per cubic inch"? (again old measurement method)


http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...hevy_1HP_1.jpg

UEL header will remove torque dip.

I didn't even know about the UEL removing the torque dip. Do I need a tune? Will my warranty be void if I install one? Will my car be too loud? What's the best brand to buy?

Obviously I meant from the factory, and not aftermarket options.

Yes you need a tune. I won't necessarily void your warranty unless the dealership can prove that it caused the issue, if you go catless it is illegal since you are tampering with a emissions device. Your car will be louder and depending on whether its catted or cattless will determine the overall loudness. Cattless will be louder vs catted but both will increase sound but it shouldn't be crazy loud. Most consider JDL, Tomei, Grupple-S, and HKS to be quality headers. The factory only sells the stock header you already have.

Cole knows!


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d8065e55fe.jpg