Groves in front rotors (replacement advice)
 

I took my stock FR-S to the track this past weekend and had and awesome time. It was my first track day so I was learning the track and car mostly before pushing any limits.

By the last session I was getting pretty hard on the brakes in the two braking zones. I ended up pulling in early because I felt quite a bit of fade in the brakes and noticed when I got home my front rotors looked like this:

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...pskbykng9p.jpg
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psc0xla59n.jpg

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psmdtvoe6h.jpg



I was thinking of just getting maybe a slightly higher quality blank rotor. I really enjoyed driving on the track and it was definitely the most fun I've had in the car but the wear and tear on the car and higher risk probably won't have me doing these more than once or 2 times a year. I will probably stick to a few autocross events though just to compete in something as that is a lot less taxing on brakes and other components.

Can anybody recommend a rotor that will be a bit more durable. I'd really like to keep it under $100 for each rotor and was probably going to go with an organic pad for street use and swap in a semi metallic pad if I ever do go to the track or auto cross again. I just don't want to burn up rotors again for the once or twice a year hard track day.

Thanks for any suggestions and help.

I did read through brake sticky.

I don't have advice on rotors (I went with DBA rotors); but the rotors I pulled off tonight looked exactly like that (3 track days, 12+ autox).

I'm interested in the replies you get.

http://www.autoanything.com/brakes/61A5250A0A0.aspx

Centric premiums are a solid choice. Im running them right now, but I have not seen the track with them yet

edit: I bought mine from autoanything because of low prices and the free shipping helps with the cost

Was this with the stock brake pads?

Assuming you still have enough meat on the rotors, you could take them in to an auto part store and have them turned.

I went with drilled rotors
 

The drilled rotors help cool the disk better, don't chew up the pads as bad as slotted rotors, and they look a lot cooler than flat or slotted rotors. I don't hear as much scraping noises since changing to them either. It's hard to find just drilled rotors. Often they will drill and slot them. You can even get them in GOLD! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brake-Rotors...9VnzwN&vxp=mtr

Yet drilled are not that common on track, if reliability matters. Mostly show car thing. Normal disks are least susceptible to cracking, slotted less, drilled more. Drilled and slotted most of course. I certainly wouldn't actively chose/search for them. Slight extra cooling is not worth to be paid for with less reliability and can be got in better ways, eg. brake air ducting. Even if they look "cooler then flat or slotted", brake subsystem shouldn't be the one, where it's acceptable to have less reliability.

Get a quality blank and some track pads and high temp fluid. I did my first few track days with XP10 and RBF600. So glad I didn't attempt to try stock seeing how many people have issues and waste their track day dealing with them.

I'd probably just go straight to torque rt700 fluid, blanks, and research what track pad you like. I was happy with XP10 but the number of days I was doing I just went to AP sprint kit after 2 sets of pads.

Thats not as bad as I did on Project Mu 400s but similar. Your pads overheated, lost the transfer layer and tore the shit out of the disc. Get a better set of Pads and it'll clean up over a little bit of time. And start slow and build up because nothing cooks this cars brakes faster than leaving any of the traction control aids on and ABS. Not in that order.

Are those actually grooves, or just melted pad compound smeared around the rotor? Tough to say from pictures, but that looks more like pad smearing than grooves to me.

If you're getting pad fade (no brakes, but hard pedal) you need better pads (and fluid) to be safe, stick with blank rotors. Drilled rotors are for show cars, drilling removes thermal mass and weakens the rotor.

Yes Im assuming it was stock pads. I bought the car used from dealer with 16k miles. I brought it in the day before track day and it had 9-10mm of pad left all around.

I thought about that. I'll probably have these replaced and keep them to get refinished to have a spare set for street driving. New stock spec rotors look to be only around 35 dollars so if I can get these refinished for 10-20 each I'll do it.


Those look great! I looked into drilled/slotted etc rotors and if I do take it to the track the only thing I would be worried about is cracking and failure in the drilled rotors.


Thanks, ya thats what I gathered reading around a bit.

Quality blanks and pads is probably the route I'll go given my planned use for the car. Thanks for the advice. I'll check out those pads and fluid.

Awesome. I think you are right about the pads overheating and destroying the rotor. So you think the rotor is still good if I just threw new higher quality pads on? I'll probably replace rotors anyways.

Also interesting about the aids cooking brakes. Is it because of the torque vectoring using brakes? I did the last session of the day with vsc sport button pushed. I was too chicken to pedal dance everything off but a guy also recommended doing it at the track (another 86 driver).



They look and feel like grooves dug into the rotor to me, but I'm pretty inexperienced in this kind of stuff. That would be cool if new pads would clean up the rotor. Rotors were smooth as new at the beginning of the day and I didn't notice the grooves until I got home from the track day. Initially I thought I boiled the brake fluid because the pedal went pretty mushy and lost a lot of bite and braking power.

The brakes are still mushier and not as much stopping power when I drive on the street probably because the pads are toast and rotor feels like a vinyl record. So I will be replacing very soon. I don't get a good feeling driving around with dying brakes.


I would love to eventually get a high end bbk or something similar, but I don't have the funds right now to justify doing that. Also I won't be doing too much hard track days until it becomes a dedicated track/fun car I don't have to worry about getting me around on the daily.

If the rotors are still in spec for thickness (can't imagine why not, I know people like myself easily see 60k Street miles and multiple track days and seasons of autox on stock rotors without issue) don't waste your money. A new set of Street pads and a set of track pads for your next event. Throw a set of xp10s on there and at the end of your next track day that rotor will have a mirror finish on it.

Mushy feeling is probably a combination of fried OE pad and brake fluid, it'll feel better after replacing both. I experienced the same exact thing after my second track day.

Bbk is a waste of money unless you're using up multiple sets of pads per year.

Mushy brakes means you need to bleed them. For the rotors, pull your wheels off and run your thumb nail across the grooves and see how much it catches your nail.

I'd really suggest against drilled rotors, just get quality blanks if these do need to be replaced.

Definitely need a new pad. This is how rotors should look after a track day. I used Cobalt Friction XR2s.

http://i.imgur.com/PkKOibD.jpg

Right on guys thanks for the help! The grooves in the rotors definitely feel scored and dug in grooves. I will go ahead and bleed the brakes with higher quality brake fluid too.

Don't just bleed them with better fluid, make sure it's a full flush. Count on using about 3/4L of fluid.

3M makes a surfacing kit. It fits in an air grinder and uses small rotary pads (like sanding disks) to remove surface layer buildup. The rotary tool will spin the disk as it removes the build up if held at a slight angle, depending on the dust shield the inside might need the caliper or shield removed.
From this distance I agree it looks like you cooked the pads. As said, get track pads for next time you track and new street pads for every day.
Technically the rotors should be "cleaned" (resurfaced) before a change in manufacture or type of pad, as there is a deposit on the surface of the rotor.

One other comment about brake fluid, the higher the boiling point the more hydroscopic the fluid. ie. the faster it will absorb water. The best high temp racing fluids are designed to be changed every track weekend. Good synthetics can last a long time. No old fluid should be used at the track as boiling will happen at the worst possible time.

As previously noted, I have used Centric Premium or NAPA premium rotors with Carbotech pads, stainless lines and a high temp brake fluid. I have never had any brake issues on the track. Do not waste money on drilled rotors for the track. DBAs are nice, but pricey. For a long time I tried to find a street/track pad and finally give up. Just buy separate rotors to use with a dedicated track pad. Since I always bleed my brakes before each track event, swapping pads and rotors didn't take much more time.

@Whooosah
If you are tracking your car you do NOT want drilled rotors. Rotors will always crack from a hole.
Get slotted or flat.

Thanks for the input everyone. I went ahead and ordered centric premium blank rotors. I am still researching and saving for track pads. Trying to figure out whether I want to run a dedicated track pad and rotor set up along with a daily setup.

I had the carbotech xp10 or ferodo ds2500 in mind running with the centric premium rotors in mind for track use. Any other inputs on pads would be very welcomed. The stock rotor looks like it can be resurfaced and I'll get a set of cheap pads for daily use when I know I'm not going to track the car for a while.

The main track I would be at is Portland Int'l Raceway. It has a big braking zone on the front straight from 110-45 into a chicane. A couple of mid speed zones and another high speed 115-60 or 70 or so on the back straight.

Thanks again everyone on here for the useful information. I didn't think I would be so into brakes. Would have loved to put the money into suspension, wheels, tires, headers, tune but it looks like it will be a while before I can fund that. Also saving for a jack, stands, and other tools like a torque wrench (been saving up harbor freight coupons...) The track bug has bitten me...what a money pit. Whole lot of fun though.

tip to remember is that track pads work well when hot and street pads work well when cold. that is why track pads are not recommended for street driving and you have found out what happens to street pads at the track. there are some crossover pads but not the best at either extreme.

I've heard great things about carbotech and winmax. The XP10's would be a good choice, and theres plenty of feedback to be found on the forum. I recently picked up a used set of xp8's for half its retail price, and there are always race pads for sale in the classified section if you want to cut costs.

Brake pads are not universally good or bad. Things that determine the effectiveness of a pad depend on:
Car weight and speed
Track
Braking style

I had DS2500 on my previous car and they were great on street and track BUT the car weighed 200 kgs less than the BRZ and wasn't as fast.
Tracks can be fast or slow or a combination of both.
Different drivers use their brakes differently.

So while the XP10s are good pads you may need to experiment more to find the optimum pad for you, your car and tracks you visit.

Certainly having different street and track pads is optimum.



This.

Sounds great everyone thanks for the input.

Centric Blanks are a great way to go, that's what I've always run and my car has seen a fair bit of track time. Haven't had a rotor crack on me yet!

Lately I've been running Winmax W5 pads with them and they've been my favorite pads I've used yet. Fantastic bite and feel, stops properly fast and they don't make too much noise to boot. I ran XP10s on the Supra and they weren't the best on track with a little more fade than I liked, and by god they're loud. The Supra is 3400+ lbs though, so that's to be expected.

Honestly, the Winmax's have been so good on the BRZ that I don't think I'll be changing brands anytime soon. The Supra is probably getting Winmax's the next go around too.

I agree that how a pad is used will factor into what pads to purchase, but there are definitely good and bad brake pads. The pads I mentioned earlier are well known and liked by a lot of track enthusiasts, so I suggested them as a great reference point and starting point for track duty.

Since he wants a dedicated track pad, he should learn on very good pads so that he can gradually work up to the limits of the pad. Its better to do that instead, because you run the risk of overwhelming your brakes when using a less effective pad because the driver may outgrow the pads fairly quickly.

Once he figures out his likes and dislikes of a good track pad, he can look for other solutions that will better suit his driving style

Awesome thanks for the recommendation I have win max on my list too now of possible pads. I was originally thinking w3 or w4 but if I'm going to commit to a dedicated track pad I'll check out the w5.

This has been discussed a bit before but I've read people run track pads upfront and oem out back. Cost wise I was going to do this but would like to know the cons and possible problems I might run into? I'm guessing it's ideal to be on the same compound all around? Anybody cook their rear oem pads on a track? I don't want to burn out any other parts unnecessarIly that still have useful life in them for my daily street driving.

Also with the rears if I go dedicated pad back there should I have a dedicated rotor too?

Also, the major parts store sell Valvoline synthetic dot3/4 brake fluid. It is about $8 quart and I can get a full flush and several bleeds from one quart. There are higher temp fluids available for a lot more money, but the Valvoline works well. Carbotech xp10 is a good pad and a good place to start. Getting a good bedding and pad transfer is critical. I don't doubt the guy who had some fade with these pads, but that is an exception. I have run xp8 on a 2500lb MX5 with no issues at Road Atlanta and turn 10 has some hard breaking.

Thanks I'll keep valvoline synthetic in mind.

What broke?

That's funny. Sorry my spelling, grammar and punctuation stink. I don't really proof my post, type fast, etc. Obviously, I meant braking. You are coming downhill into turn 10 about 120 in my MX5 with a 90 degree turn. Even higher speeds in the big hp cars.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psdl38rhvo.jpg

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...pschrf5fkl.jpg

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psxdkw9c9y.jpg

Do these pads look like they are still usable. I've been driving around on them for a week or 2 and they seem like they are working better than they did a day or 2 after the track day. Maybe they cleaned up a bit? I'd hate to trash them because they look like they still have tons of material left just for normal daily driving.

Did not catch what pad you are running on. The pad is smeared all over the rotor. If you have questioned regarding a brake pad setup for your setup and driving skill set, please PM us and we can help you out. :)

This is the stock pad.