Nissan Design Boss: No Chance of Toyobaru Fighter
 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/...ta-gt-86-rival

"Nissan has gone cold on the idea of introducing a small Toyota GT 86 rival to its range for the foreseeable future.
Speaking to Auto Express at the New York Motor Show, executives said the GT-R supercar and Z sports car will always remain in the range due to customer loyalty, but plans to add a smaller third sports car to rival the Mazda MX-5 and Toyota GT 86 have been shelved for now."

A few years back there were rumors swirling of a Silvia successor. A few Japanese magazine even did mockups. At the same time we got the iDX concept which was totes hawt... They even let Jay Leno drive the thing!

https://youtu.be/rV2Rg3zH5EY

It sounded like a sure thing! Then Nissan got cold feet, probably after seeing that the Toyobaru weren't 't selling like hotcakes and Nissan profits at the time weren't in-line with expectation. So the idea of several low-cost sports cars for the brand just petered out. Hell, the 370z is still needs replaced.

Too bad because Nissan has a great range of engines. The 1.6 turbo from the Juke would be pretty awesome in a 2700 pound car. If somehow they could shoehorn in their new twin-turbo V6 from the Infiniit G60, well, that would be bonkers! But I guess it makes sense as the market moves towards crossovers and there is already a glut of great muscle cars that have proven popularity. The 370 is already in that market, though now a bit old. Though rumor has it Nissan has considered making the 370 successor a kind-of crossover vehicle. :iono:

NISMO Juke RS...if they made a RWD one it would be game over for the miata in terms of handling. As it is now, the NISMO Juke RS already feels more like driving the FR-S than the ND miata does.

It's odd that they won't produce a Toyobaru fighter, but are willing to make the 370z given sales for the Twins are much greater than the 370z. :iono:

If they actually did something.... they would mess it up with a Vform grille and a CVT transmission.


I'm not surprised, nor do I care. Nissans are commuter cars. Cheap, throw away tools. They used to have cool products...but not anymore. (Save the GTR obviously.)

The 370z is kind of precarious in the market today. Very few people care about buying a $30K 2-seater with little to no practically.

A Ecoboost Mustang Premium and Camaro 2LT starts in the $29-31K range. Those 2 cars have semi-usable backseats and trunks. Better or worse still their performance metrics aren't all that far off the 370z - we are talking around the street where at most you go maybe 8/10ths.

I think to make a 370 successor work it either drops in price and size closer to the Miata/ Fiat 124 and adopts a 4-cylindar only engine range, or gets bigger with a backseat and trunk so it can steal muscle car sales while using the current 3.7, and optional TT 3.0. I think the latter would work better in Nissan's favor.

Nissan doesn't want to (or isn't in the financial position to) build an affordable dedicated RWD sports car chassis for a low volume model like Toyota has with the 86. Nissan's sporty cars despite being a kind of fun are either overweight (Z, Maxima), expensive (GTR) or dynamically compromised by FWD configuration (Juke NISMO RS). It costs money and is a huge risk to bring a car like the 86 to market.

More importantly, Nissan doesn't have another manufacturer it can simply build the car at, considering Toyota has zero production capacity committed to the 86.

All things considered, Nissan most likely is finding a more profitable car to build with their existing capacity.

-alex

Agreed

What drugs were you on when you posted that? And can I have some???


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Sports/sporty cars have always been and will always be, sales volume wise, a niche market. Probably more so from here on out, sad to say. Car makers are in the business of making money first and foremost, but if they don't have an existing platform that allows it to be profitable, then the project will never get off the ground. That said, we're damn lucky to have the twins, and this is more proof that it's true.

Agreed. I'd love to see Nissan go all-in with the next gen. Since the 370z is essentially Nissan's version of the Camaro/Mustang, add small rear seats and a decent trunk. Take their existing VK50/56 engine and offer it as the V8 option.

The Mustang/Camaro market is large, but if they want to steal a piece from it, they're going to have to compete in performance and usability.

They already had the G37 coupe....

Much like Toyotas.

True but that was more of an upscale 3-series competitor with the analog clock, leather interior, MSRP, etc. Also no V8 option.

Not true, could do a shared platform with Renault reviving both the Silvia and Alpine names, they've been talking about starting the Alpine brand up again for about a decade now, although Alpines were all RR apparently, but there was talks of using the GTR for an Alpine, and the Clio was MR...

Pitching additional sales in the U.S. through badging it as a Nissan would probably help Renault justify the costs.

Agreed though, their game is econo-boxes, that's THE game if you want to thrive as an auto manufacturer these days with even Ferrari and Lamborghini talking about SUV's since it was such a boon for Porsche. Mass market big sales numbers line executive pockets and give shareholders dividends, not raving magazine reviews that move ~20k sports cars at thin profit margins.

Looks like it's time for the Japanese to bring back that classic Japanese muscle. I am, of course, talking about the first generation Celica fastbackhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Celica_01.jpg

No drugs...I drove a Juke NISMO RS literally back to back with an ND MX-5 Club Sport and it is my honest impression. The Juke NISMO RS weighs less than 200lbs more than FR-S and has a really tight and quick responsive chassis and suspension that corners just about as flatly. The ND is a freaking sailboat in comparison pitching forward and back and yawing side to side...do not like.

The new g37 (now G60) is reportedly going to start around $40K with the base turbo 4, which is inline with the 4-series and C-Class coupe. The 300hp TT V6 will likely come in around $45K, with the 400 hp ECU tune being even more expensive. The 370z successor would need to start at or under $30K with either a 3.7 V6 or Turbo 4. I don't know about the VQ56. A big V8 would be cool but hit Nissan's EPA and CAFE numbers. :(

I didn't really expect them to make it unless they axed the Z or the GTR. Having 3 sports cars in your lineup would be tough I'd assume.

Maybe if they didn't waste their money on these two:

http://zombdrive.com/images/2014-nis...abriolet-3.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...be_Z12_001.JPG

Sadly, I think those two flops really irked some people in the board room and Ghosen had to start axing special projects.

My point was about excess capacity, not about a new car/shared platform.

Subaru had no issue making the 86 because they had the spare assembly line to do so. I am not sure Nissan has the capability, and a Japanese sports car made in France will be surely a hot seller outside of Europe...

-alex

Yeah because the average buyer is totally up on where specific models are built. Guess that Italian powered Japanese sports car coming out soon will be a barometer.

The whole point of my post is that Renault might have some capacity to manufacture it and now that i think about it could capitalize better on their F1 involvement.

What? Miata is a 2300lb 2 seater convertible. Juke is an ugly pig with engine position in front of the front axle. You don't mean to tell me a RWD with engine positioned on the nose drive better than a front mid engine car.

Have Mazda build the fricking car for them like they do it for Toyota and Fiat.

I've owned, driven and loved Nissans for over 20 years. I still own two Skylines and they are still as awesome to me as they ever were. I have Nissan cred.

That being said, Nissan now, can lick my balls. I don't see me walking into a Nissan dealer for any new cars unless they correct the disparity in their leasing structure that will allow me to pick up a Leaf on lease without paying damned near full purchase price WTF?

Their uber car, the GT-R is certainly an amazing collection of stats and for what it is, it is a bullseye. It's not what I want, fine. The Z is not a bad sports car and I like the 370 styling much better than the 350 and while the VQ engine doesn't excite me neither does the FA so it's not a dealbreaker.

To ignore the entry level lightweight RWD car market is a mistake I think. We have discussed it constantly in the Nissan owner community and the number of Nissan faithful who park their Nissan of choice next to a BRZ or a Miata is notable.

Nissan has decided they don't want our business and we went elsewhere. I'll tell you this, when I pull into the Nissan parts counter parking lot, their employees come out to scope out my Scooby.

Hence my comment to begin with.

Everyone sees this as "Nissan doesn't want to build entry-level sports car"

I see it as "if it made sense for Nissan to build and sustain their business plan, they would've done so years ago."

Ever since Renault took over Nissan, their primary goal is to ensure profitability in all that they do. The late 90s basically sealed the fate of Nissan for the next 2-3 decades. Even their ill-fated Le Mans program reflected a risk-adverse corporate culture.

-alex

Nissan: "We're too much of a bunch of pussies to build a car for enthusiasts despite them clamoring for a return of the legendary Silvia that our competitors in Subaru/Toyota have directly challenged."

Nissan made the right choices to pull the company back to profitability. Unfortunately, they forgot how to do some things. Until they realize that their failure to address certain market segments is THEIR failure, not ours, they will be absent from the conversation on that topic and make it harder to come back into it.

Let's face it: the Toyobaru market segment is tiny. Cars in this category just don't sell well in the U.S. I think demand can only support a couple models like this. Adding another to the mix will likely just damage profitability for all (i.e. both) manufacturers in this segment. Remember, they are in business to make money, not build cars. Building cars is just a means to an end.

That's a different market segment, though. That's your WRX fighter, not your BRZ fighter.

I think they will only build a lightweight RWD platform if they replace Ghosn with a Japanese dude that truly loves cars.

Can't see them axe either the GTR or the Z due to the heritage of Prince and Nissan respectively.

When the twins came out, there were many "reports" that Nissan was making a "smaller z" to compete with the twins.


As much as I would like that, the Z doesn't even need to compete with the twins. It's a great package at a great price and a lot of people who are looking for more power from factory would choose the z.

Nissan should focus on making Z35, not another non-value added car. Z34 is too old to be competitive.

Nissan has been dead to me ever since they stopped making the Silvia.

Which is probably just as good considering if they did make a new one, it would be ugly as sin anyway.

Even if someone can manage the mental acrobatics to convince themselves modern Nissans aren't hideous, they still couldn't deny they haven't made anything that looks even remotely as good as this in the past 15 years:
http://www.jdmbuysell.com/wp-content...01-500x333.jpg

I like the Leaf. Seriously.

Is the following dead too?

God, I hope so. The engine and transmission was a joke. CVT? FUCK YOU NISSAN!

I was expecting IDX to be a RWD sports coupe to compete with the Twins..

Nissan is an evil company that plays with your emotions. Don't trust them with your heart.

Instead of working on a decent, small RWD fun car they are wasting time on dumb shit like this.

http://www.automotofoto.net/wp-conte...HUMBNAIL-3.jpg

And this

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-cont...02-876x535.jpg

Put the crack pipe away, boys.

I'm not sure why this is always such a hot topic here.

Of course, with a hope, a prayer and some good fortune, the twins were conceived, then by another miracle, not aborted. Sales are pretty "meh", but, that's not the issue, since they were going to be low volume anyways. A passion project, not so much about the bottom line.

I've said this before, too... The twins were the car that the internet wanted. They cried out to the Disciples of Jalopnik saying "Please, deliver us from our econobox sins, give us lightweight, RWD fun". Then, on the 7th day, Toyota created the first 86 and had every single Jalopnik reader moist in the panties. But then, tragedy struck and the twins were judged as "under powered" and "cheaply constructed". And the Jalopnik faithful said "Fuck this, I'm out". And none of them ever bought a twin.

Enthusiasts are such a small fucking segment of the market, and most of them aren't going to be buying a new car. Why the fuck should ANY company cater to us? Every single person on this board should feel lucky that they have that gift from God sitting in their driveway/garage/parking lot/whatever because for the first time in many, many years, a company (and Toyota, no less) took a risk, listened to the enthusiasts, only to be slammed by the majority for things that aren't necessarily true.

I know if I was an exec at an automotive company, I sure as shit wouldn't be taking risks on making a small, lightweight, under powered(subjective, of course, talking mass appeal), RWD car. Especially seeing what happened with the mass reception of it from internet lurkers all over the world.

But, I could be entirely off base here and completely talking out of my ass. Whatever, this is how I see it.