Innovate Motorsports ECB-1 Gauge with Delicious Tuning FF Kit?
 

Curious, could this gauge be used in conjunction with the Delicious Tuning FF Kit? I like how this gauge can display boost, AF, ethanol content, and fuel temp (not as important to me) on one gauge.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/ecb1.php

Could the gauge be "spliced" into the DT FF flex fuel sensor or would I need to run another Continental sensor in serial with the DT FF Sensor?

I just picked up an ECB-1 and I was wondering the same. The sensor is different but should function the same. The one in my kit was a Continental 13577429. The one in the Delicious and Moto-East kits looks to be a Continental 13577394.

Just dug up the ECB-1 documentation and it looks like the Continental sensor that comes with the DT FF Kit might not be compatible then.

"The ECB-1 is compatible with GM P/Ns 13577429 and 13577379"

So looks like we'll need to run two separate fuel sensors if we're going to run both the ECB-1 and DT/Moto East kits?

Found a gold mine of information. The 379 and 394 seem to be exactly the same, but one has longer fuel hard lines.

Great find! You think we can tap into the Continental FF sensor harness for the ECB-1 gauge then?

Nothing wrong with their product, but if you want the real time display I'm not sure why you wouldn't just buy our kit to start with then versus using that one? It would be cheaper and you'd get the AN lines by default with no upcharge.

We do have the rear o2 option as well for those that prefer that route and the slightly easier installation. You may find it cheaper to sell your old one and just get ours that is ready for what you need.

Mike, sorry I tagged you without real context, I thought I had mentioned something after I did it.

We're trying to see how we can integrate the Innovate ECB-1 with the flex fuel kits and I tagged you to see if you've managed to figure out how this would work. We're trying to clean up the interior and not have 50 gauges for various data.

I'm looking at the sensor and I see three pins, which gives me the feeling that we're looking at power, ground, and data. Obviously the flex fuel sensor is already getting powered by your (or their) kit, so maybe Y off of the sensor with just the single data line going to the Innovate gauge?

No problem. The sensors all output a frequency, and the ECA/modules all turn that into a usable 0-5 signal. Only differences between the units is where they are made, grade of electronic components, and some additional filters that make for a more stable signal. But you have to have some kind of a frequency to voltage converter to give the gauge the signal. Gauges with integrated ethanol content analyzers should be able to use any one of those GM/Continental based sensors.

The ECB-1 appears to be just that, so you should be able to piggy back the signal from the sensor, but there may be some interference issues so a separate sensor may be needed if you see a change in the ECU rear o2 voltage input on the datalogs.

And to expand on this, the GM sensor seems to have one sensor wire...how does the ECB-1 get both ethanol content and fuel temp signals from one signal wire?

I did some pretty heavy reading and have more information now. The three lines are exactly as I assumed.

Vcc = +12V in
Vout = Output
GND = Ground

To answer your question, this is what's involved in the Vout signal:

The sensor output is both frequency and pulse width.
Ethanol content is output as a frequency of 50-150Hz. The math is:
E% = Freq - 50
180-190Hz means water contamination.

Temperature is output as a pulse width of 1ms-5ms. The math is:
Temp(c) = (41.25 * PW) - 81.25

There's mention of a pull-up resistor possibly being required to bridge between Vout and Vcc. Looks like rigging up a cable would be pretty straightforward. The Delphi connectors are readily available on Mouser to do this the "right way".

Had a few minutes at work. This is basically what I had in mind. I'd probably try and find some shielded cable for good measure. Behold the power of MS Paint.

http://i.imgur.com/kl6rGTh.png

Awesome! Thanks for the info. Any concerns with tapping the signal wire from the Continental ethanol sensor and degrading/interfering with the signal going to the repurposed rear o2? As you said before, if this works, it would be an elegant solution vs. having a bunch of gauges.

As Mike said, the main issue is interference. There shouldn't be a voltage drop. My main concern is what happens when the Zeitronix gear gets a shit signal from the sensor. I'd be leery about testing this.

Admittedly I don't even have a Flex Fuel setup yet so even if I wanted to test it I couldn't. There's nothing over E10 on this island so I haven't seen a reason to spring for it. Maybe if I see a nice used kit I'll pick it up.

You may want to wait just a bit longer, because we are currently improving our system quite a bit this year. I will not say much right now (picture below) but there is more to the little black box then meets the eye. And because it is developed, designed and made in San Diego, California, USA we can maintain stick quality control standards while you help support the US economy.

https://z-1-scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn...26&oe=57B96A84

Currently our kit does offer a stainless steel mounting bracket (not zip ties) for the ethanol sensor. We also include nylon fuel lines which are 100% ethanol compatible and why most manufacturers use them in their line of vehicles.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

Just looking at the wiring in the picture, this doesn't look like it answers his question.

Intrigued by what other functionality the little black box can provide! Also waiting on the iPhone app!!

Well if you notice there is a fuel pressure sensor now in the system. This is currently on our development car and more coming in the next few months.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

I mean, that's great and all, but how does this relate to the ECB-1, even a little? :iono:

Simple, you will not need the ECB-1 at all. That is how it relates.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

Not to revive this thread but, cant we just tap the sensor wire only and feed the gauge to its own 12v and ground so the ethanol sensor isnt affected? Im too intrested in a real gauge pod not app.

It's funny this came back up actually. I have a lot more understanding of the electronics in the 86 and was thinking about this recently, and honestly there's no need for ANY flex fuel kit if you have an ECB-1.

Essentially, the ECB-1 can be considered to be its own flex fuel kit minus hose and one wiring harness. Basically, the sensor is a standard GM sensor that outputs a mixed voltage/PWM signal that the car can't understand. The ECB-1 translates that signal into a simple 0-5Vdc signal, from 0-100%, which can be found on the brown wire coming off the gauge.

http://i.imgur.com/dNOVRty.png

If you were to run this wire to the rear O2 jack found on the front passenger side of the engine block, and have your tuner make a custom map based on the above table, you have flex fuel.

I just found the factory delphi 3 pin male and female connectors on ebay. Im going to order them and male a small extension cable so i can have a splice free gauge setup. Ill just use the a cigarette lighter power plug and access a 12v behind the glove box for the gauges power like I used on my wideband.

Connectors: Part #15326808 and #15326813

Terminals: Part #12191819 and #15326269

Seal: 15366021

This should be useful and fill my empty gauge pod hole.

Finally found it. Kind of just have to Google flex fuel wiring. It applies to just about any car.

The MTX-D will work. It reads without any other computer the 0v 0 ethanol and 5v 100% ethanol. Might need to tap right before the 02 sensor plug for a good signal.

I'm assuming you already have a flex fuel kit. Have you checked the voltage the ECU is receiving from its signal converter box?

The reason I ask this, is that to achieve the correct stoichiometric mixture with any amount of E requires more fuel, so it's better for it to be 5V at 0% and 0V at 100% (or 85%). Better to run rich than lean if the signal processing fails.

Ya i have delicious tunings kit. Kills me that it doesnt have an option for a real gauge.

Confirmed from my tuners ecutek flex fuel video the ecu reads 0v - 5v like the gauge to pull the values of ethanol.

I respect the forum rules not to link or give adds to unsponsored or banned members.

I do think this topic not been resolved in a timely manner is counterproductive for the development the future of the GT86.