Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB

Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Forced Induction (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78)
-   -   TrackSpec Hood Louvers (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100737)

CounterSpace Garage 01-29-2016 05:40 PM

TrackSpec Hood Louvers
 
One of the major challenges with the FT86, is the ability to extract heat out of the engine bay. While a stock car that is street driven doesn't have any problems staying within normal operating temperatures, cars that are Forced Induction, or are driven hard on the track often have overheating issues.

Another occurrence the more spirited drivers may have noticed, is that the stock hood "flaps" at higher speeds. There is a lot of air trapped under the hood, and to escape, the air wobbles the stock hood, escaping out the side. This produces a few undesirable effects: extra drag, front end lift, and a general feeling of uneasyness about the hood staying in place.


CSG is proud to introduce the TrackSpec Motorsports Hood Louver/Heat Extractor Vents for the FRS/BRZ/GT86.

A major design hurdle was finding a proper model of the FRS/BRZ/GT86 to perform CFD analysis to determine the effectiveness of the hood. Such analysis is often performed, but CSG and TrackSpec discovered that all of the commonly available models had some major flaws: they all assume a flat underbody, and they do not model inside the engine bay at all! With such a flawed model, the analysis would also be heavily flawed, so we set about seeking to make our own model. Unfortunately, with the budget we have, it was impossible to laser scan such a complex shape (the underbody, and more importantly, the engine bay) to get the level of accuracy we sought.

This led us to use the flawed models, with some modifications, to attempt to simulate airflow through the engine bay. This data, being flawed, was taken with a grain of salt, and was used only to try different shapes, angles, and sizes of vents, which would ultimately be verified with real world testing. Due to the complexity of the actual car, real world testing would be the only feasible way to get accurate measurements (we don't have the budget for windtunnel testing... sorry!).

The end result of this testing, is the vent pictured below. The vent is designed to drop into the stock hood, and does several things:

- an overall 43% drop in under-hood pressure at highway speeds
- a 60% drop in under-hood pressure at 120mph!
- A net front downforce (we had to add wing angle during testing to balance the now-grippier front)
- Increased cooling (less pressure under the hood = more air flowing through the radiator; more air being extracted = more air flowing through the radiator)

The above claims were verified with real-world data, and tested at Willow Springs Intentional Raceway, aka "The Fastest in the West" at speeds up to 130mph under race conditions.

MSRP is $329.99, and are now available at http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...-frs-gt86.html


http://counterspacegarage.com/media/...r/brz_main.jpg

http://counterspacegarage.com/media/...brz_rear_1.jpg

http://counterspacegarage.com/media/..._profiler1.jpg

http://counterspacegarage.com/media/...rz_frontr1.jpg

http://counterspacegarage.com/media/..._brz_speed.jpg

http://counterspacegarage.com/media/...r/brz_data.jpg

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...97302688_o.jpg

JoeC 01-29-2016 06:56 PM

Nice real world testing. You have pretty specific measurements of the reduction on pressure but nothing on temperature?

CSG Mike 01-29-2016 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeC (Post 2527896)
Nice real world testing. You have pretty specific measurements of the reduction on pressure but nothing on temperature?

Unfortunately, the CSG car is already properly cooled, so no hard numbers; it doesn't overheat to begin with.

We did do some testing for anecdotal evidence; we disconnected our fans completely, and still didn't overheat during the sessions. With the stock hood, or even one of the Seibon vented hoods, the car normally will overheat within a lap on stock fans.

Decay107 01-29-2016 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 2527900)
Unfortunately, the CSG car is already properly cooled, so no hard numbers; it doesn't overheat to begin with.

We did do some testing for anecdotal evidence; we disconnected our fans completely, and still didn't overheat during the sessions. With the stock hood, or even one of the Seibon vented hoods, the car normally will overheat within a lap on stock fans.

I'm confused, fans should barely affect the cooling efficiency of a moving car at all. Hell, I know a bunch of guys (on different platforms) who elect to run track only cars with no fans installed as they tend to be a restriction at speed.

CSG Mike 01-29-2016 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decay107 (Post 2527922)
I'm confused, fans should barely affect the cooling efficiency of a moving car at all. Hell, I know a bunch of guys (on different platforms) who elect to run track only cars with no fans installed as they tend to be a restriction at speed.

Powerful fans can pull more air through the radiator, than can be pushed through naturally at speed. The fans on the CSG car are so powerful that they require their own relay and independent power source (60 amps!)

Race cars, that have a fully evacuated/stripped/tucked engine bay, can run without a fan, but street cars cannot.

A stock FRS, without fans, would not survive at the track, because air can't go through the radiator very well, when there is a build up of pressure inside the engine bay. That pressure buildup is primarily what these vents are designed for, and the hosing you see on the car is connected to manometer (manometers measure pressure).

JoeC 01-29-2016 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 2527930)
Powerful fans can pull more air through the radiator, than can be pushed through naturally at speed. The fans on the CSG car are so powerful that they require their own relay and independent power source (60 amps!)

Race cars, that have a fully evacuated/stripped/tucked engine bay, can run without a fan, but street cars cannot.

A stock FRS, without fans, would not survive at the track, because air can't go through the radiator very well, when there is a build up of pressure inside the engine bay. That pressure buildup is primarily what these vents are designed for, and the hosing you see on the car is connected to manometer (manometers measure pressure).


Wow! yeah, I guess the CSG car wouldn't have cooling issues.

Northwest86 01-29-2016 10:38 PM

Are we able to see an under the bonnet pic. Really interested in the structural strength and how it is maintained as it appears that it is cut out. Our state is just really finicky about structural changes.

kikew 01-31-2016 02:38 PM

Nice design. But I wonder where the water goes when its raining. Can we see a picture from underneath?

CSG Mike 01-31-2016 05:52 PM

We'll have some pictures for you shortly. Everyone is at the track so there is nobody around to take a picture of the underside of the hood :)

DeliciousTuning 02-01-2016 09:54 PM

About time someone released a vented hood solution with some actual thought behind it! :burnrubber:

Sincerely,

Zach

CSG Mike 02-01-2016 10:26 PM

As promised.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...20900408_o.jpg

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...93966320_o.jpg

plucas 02-01-2016 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 2527930)
Powerful fans can pull more air through the radiator, than can be pushed through naturally at speed. The fans on the CSG car are so powerful that they require their own relay and independent power source (60 amps!)

The only fans that can flow large amounts of air that I have seen are mechanical fans. The most powerful Spal fan that I can find flows 2000cfm at 0 mm of H2O (which isn't realistic because there will be pressure drop). The air flow decreases at a higher pressure drop (mm of H2O). The air flow would be closer to 1500cfm depending on the core design. The ft86 core flows 3000cfm at a realistic 14mph of airflow though the radiator.

CSG Mike 02-01-2016 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plucas (Post 2530884)
The only fans that can flow large amounts of air that I have seen are mechanical fans. The most powerful Spal fan that I can find flows 2000cfm at 0 mm of H2O (which isn't realistic because there will be pressure drop). The air flow decreases at a higher pressure drop (mm of H2O). The air flow would be closer to 1500cfm depending on the core design. The ft86 core flows 3000cfm at a realistic 14mph of airflow though the radiator.

Under ideal condition, yes. In real world conditions.... not so much.

We use two of these. https://webstore.spalusa.com/content..._2038_SPEC.pdf

At about 275whp, we were overheating the car quite easily. Swap the stock shroud with a CSG shroud (or any shroud that fits really), two of those fans, and voila, zero heat issues. As you stated, we have quite a bit of restriction in front of the fan, so we use the fan that maintains the most flow under pressure.

As an aside, the CSG s2k, with about 450whp, overheated with the stock fans on the stock radiator, at the track. That's obviously predictable. Without any fans the car still overheats. Add *one* of these Spal fans, and zero heat issues. We even added it to the passenger side of the radiator, which is the less ideal solution due to the S2k's radiator design (inlet about 70% of the way to the passenger side, outlet on the driver side).

Often times, real world results trump theory, especially when we're talking street cars with street car cooling systems, rather than the fully sealed and ducted systems often seen on race cars.

I've lost count of how many overheating FI cars have come to us and had their issues solved with just a simple fan shroud and powerful fan setup. Vents further enhance the effectiveness, just by allowing more air to flow, whether the powerful fans are present or not.

plucas 02-01-2016 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 2530901)
Under ideal condition, yes. In real world conditions.... not so much.

We use two of these. https://webstore.spalusa.com/content..._2038_SPEC.pdf

At about 325whp, we were overheating the car quite easily. Swap the stock shroud with a CSG shroud (or any shroud that fits really), two of those fans, and voila, zero heat issues. As you stated, we have quite a bit of restriction in front of the fan, so we use the fan that maintains the most flow under pressure.

As an aside, the CSG s2k, with about 450whp, overheated with the stock fans on the stock radiator, at the track. That's obviously predictable. Without any fans the car still overheats. Add *one* of these Spal fans, and zero heat issues. We even added it to the passenger side of the radiator, which is the less ideal solution due to the S2k's radiator design (inlet about 70% of the way to the passenger side, outlet on the driver side).

Often times, real world results trump theory, especially when we're talking street cars with street car cooling systems, rather than the fully sealed and ducted systems often seen on race cars.

I've lost count of how many overheating FI cars have come to us and had their issues solved with just a simple fan shroud and powerful fan setup. Vents further enhance the effectiveness, just by allowing more air to flow, whether the powerful fans are present or not.

If you aren't getting proper airflow through your radiator, that sounds like a design problem. Fans are a bandaid to the real problem. I am talking theory and real world experience. I have seen many many many racecars running without fans around the track. It is about proper airflow.

I am not saying fans won't fix an issue, but fans will not outflow normal flow through a radiator.


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