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-   -   JDL 4-2-1 Header Dyno results! (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140374)

EvolutionRevolution 05-30-2020 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solidONE (Post 3336617)
"NO everything you say is NO!" lmao Y'all should have seen the deleted posts. "Trololol"

The 4-2-1's, some of them at least, actually add a bump of torque where the dip is whereas the UEL seem to flatten them out.

For instance, my Long tube 4-2-1 pipe actually peaks right after where the dip used to be (165 ft lbs on E85 vs Stocks 120ish ft lbs. on 91) It's like driving a different car. Vetack like.


Interesting on the "new car feeling" ..I wonder how much of that might be the tune? ..

I put on an HKS 4-2-1 header after already having a stg 2 tune on my car. Didn't really notice anything per butt dyno. The same tune with STOCK header felt like very linear power.

Actually switching HKS out for a Gruppe-S here shortly just to see how I like the UEL..

solidONE 05-30-2020 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvolutionRevolution (Post 3336639)
Interesting on the "new car feeling" ..I wonder how much of that might be the tune? ..

I put on an HKS 4-2-1 header after already having a stg 2 tune on my car. Didn't really notice anything per butt dyno. The same tune with STOCK header felt like very linear power.

Actually switching HKS out for a Gruppe-S here shortly just to see how I like the UEL..

Same with the Tomei 4-2-1. It's an awesome kit for the price, but that annoying dip is still there. I traded for the long tube, and I'm a better person for it. I love myself more now.

Tune goes hand in hand with the pipes. it should be one thing. "Tune-der" "Headune?"

StraightOuttaCanadaEh 05-30-2020 08:10 PM

What exactly is a long tube header? 4-1?

solidONE 05-30-2020 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh (Post 3336689)
What exactly is a long tube header? 4-1?

Long tube refers to the length of the runner tubes. It can be in any configuration. Changing the length changes the "sweet spot" Think of it like a musical instrument. It technically a fancy horn for your engine exhaust

StraightOuttaCanadaEh 05-30-2020 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solidONE (Post 3336726)
Long tube refers to the length of the runner tubes. It can be in any configuration. Changing the length changes the "sweet spot" Think of it like a musical instrument. It technically a fancy horn for your engine exhaust

So what are some examples of long tube headers?

solidONE 05-30-2020 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh (Post 3336736)
So what are some examples of long tube headers?

Nameless 4-2-1, P-Tuning 4-1, all of ace's lineup, if I'm not mistaken. And another, I believe, made by a local company oh.. PPE 4-1. I'm not sure why people are drag racing this car, but its reportedly does quite well for that application. Also the JDL pipes are kinda long.

Mike_ZN6 05-31-2020 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solidONE (Post 3336758)
Nameless 4-2-1, P-Tuning 4-1, all of ace's lineup, if I'm not mistaken. And another, I believe, made by a local company oh.. PPE 4-1. I'm not sure why people are drag racing this car, but its reportedly does quite well for that application. Also the JDL pipes are kinda long.


I thought the only true long tube headers for this car are the Ace and Nameless. The Nameless extends the runner length by curving the pipes upward in front of the engine by the intake/fans before curving back down towards the exhaust. The Ace extends the runner length by replacing the overpipe with a continuation of the header. The Nameless design has been known to cause heat issues including affecting intake temps and melting fans.

solidONE 05-31-2020 02:59 PM

PPE
https://www.shopfigs.com/v3/image/ca...g-1200x800.jpg

P-Tuing:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...4&d=1436483791

Nameless:
http://i.imgur.com/pE7Te67.jpg

Pretty long, what she said.

"Michael Schumi is NOT dead how can you.."

Exactly, young padawan.

86TOYO2k17 05-31-2020 03:49 PM

Technically any 4-1 EL header on this car is “long tube” header.
Nameless is not a long tube header it has short 4-2 runners, it has longer than normal 2-1 runners compared to other 4-2-1 designs that don’t utilize the overpipe like ace.
Longer front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at the top end
Shortet front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at midrange
Longer 2-1 runners increase mid range,
Shorter 2-1 runners increase top end.
4-1 EL has long front runners for top end and no 2-1 to have much mid range improvement.
4-1 UEL has 2 longer front runners and 2 shorter front runners so it’s mediocre at both top end and midrange.
4-2-1 (That don’t utilize overpipe) have short 4-2 front runners for midrange, and depending on secondary 2-1 runner length can tweak top end or mid range. Nameless and JDL have longer 2-1 runners so should both have good midrange, but lack top end.
Ace header is able to have the 4-2 front runner length the same length or longer compared to other 4-1 EL headers for great top end and then utilizing the overpipe can tweak the mid range or top end more, 150 has shorter 2-1 overpipe for more top end, and 350 has longer 2-1 for mid range, 250 is a nice sweet spot for both. With using the OP in the header design you can essentially combine the best of all worlds and create a no compromise header.

solidONE 05-31-2020 04:02 PM

Everything is relative.. "medium-tube header?" "Longish-tube" JDL is long-ish

NoHaveMSG 05-31-2020 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 (Post 3336937)
Technically any 4-1 EL header on this car is ďlong tubeĒ header.
Nameless is not a long tube header it has short 4-2 runners, it has longer than normal 2-1 runners compared to other 4-2-1 designs that donít utilize the overpipe like ace.
Longer front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at the top end
Shortet front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at midrange
Longer 2-1 runners increase mid range,
Shorter 2-1 runners increase top end.
4-1 EL has long front runners for top end and no 2-1 to have much mid range improvement.
4-1 UEL has 2 longer front runners and 2 shorter front runners so itís mediocre at both top end and midrange.
4-2-1 (That donít utilize overpipe) have short 4-2 front runners for midrange, and depending on secondary 2-1 runner length can tweak top end or mid range. Nameless and JDL have longer 2-1 runners so should both have good midrange, but lack top end.
Ace header is able to have the 4-2 front runner length the same length or longer compared to other 4-1 EL headers for great top end and then utilizing the overpipe can tweak the mid range or top end more, 150 has shorter 2-1 overpipe for more top end, and 350 has longer 2-1 for mid range, 250 is a nice sweet spot for both. With using the OP in the header design you can essentially combine the best of all worlds and create a no compromise header.

Kinda funny then that the nameless has pretty poor midrange, especially compared to the ACE.

Quote:

The Nameless design has been known to cause heat issues including affecting intake temps and melting fans.
My IAT's look normal. I have melted the rear part the the fan shroud a tiny bit, but it's not noticeable unless you really look for it.

86TOYO2k17 05-31-2020 04:26 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3336950)
Kinda funny then that the nameless has pretty poor midrange, especially compared to the ACE.

Pretty solid mid range on dynos Iíve seen. Here are two random ones for nameless 4-2-1. Huge mid range gain not so much top end a tune+no cats is the main contributor for the top end increase not header design.

See the rest of my previous post about ace headers. Nothing really compares from a design standpoint.

NoHaveMSG 05-31-2020 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 (Post 3336957)
Pretty solid mid range on dynos I’ve seen. Here are two random ones for nameless 4-2-1. Huge mid range gain not so much top end a tune+no cats is the main contributor for the top end increase not header design.

See the rest of my previous post about ace headers. Nothing really compares from a design standpoint.

There are a lot of hit and miss dyno's on the Nameless. I think most of it has come down to getting the AVCS right. I have run about 4 different revisions and can't get any midrange out of it. It is pretty meh on my car till about 4k and doesn't really start to feel good till 5k, which has just been street tuned. I have met others who have echo'd my experience that have had it done by a pro on the dyno. My car feels pretty similar to the curve in this thread. I don't care though as long as it pulls 4k and up I am happy.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115389

e1_griego 05-31-2020 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3336959)
There are a lot of hit and miss dyno's on the Nameless. I think most of it has come down to getting the AVCS right. I have run about 4 different revisions and can't get any midrange out of it. It is pretty meh on my car till about 4k and doesn't really start to feel good till 5k, which has just been street tuned. I have met others who have echo'd my experience that have had it done by a pro on the dyno. My car feels pretty similar to the curve in this thread. I don't care though as long as it pulls 4k and up I am happy.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115389

Yeah, I went from Nameless to Ace because of that.


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