Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB

Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Forced Induction (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78)
-   -   DELETE THREAD! (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138797)

86click 01-31-2020 12:28 PM

DELETE THREAD!
 
DELETE THREAD!

Goingnowherefast 01-31-2020 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86click (Post 3295561)
Hey yíall. I bought my car couple of months ago and Iím in love with it but also I donít wanna be left behind when Iím with my friends going for cruises or what not. Yeah I got into this car knowing itís gonna be slow but IK I can get it fast. Money is not the problem. I donít daily it. Iím. A truck driver and 23 years old so itís sitting at home. Only get it drive it on the weekends every couple weeks but I wanna have fun with it.

So I wanna build this car to be Fast. DONT SAY (you got the wrong car then) money isnít a problem. I donít really donít wanna engine swap. Feel like itís a huge headache but there is always a possibility.

So my question is.
ēWhat can I do to the car to get 300-350whp?
ēTurbo or Super charger with e85?
ēDo I need rebuild the engine with internal upgrades before going FI?
ēWhat parts I should get?
Fuel injectors, fuel pump, rebuilt transmission, Ect.

Thanks. Let me know what yíall got in mind.

You bought the wrong car.

No but honestly, that power level is accessible with both supercharging or turbocharging. But first, do you need it to be reliable at the track? Because that single factor, will nearly double the price of any forced induction setup. If not, it's much easier since a street car see's almost none of the abuse a track car will.

86click 01-31-2020 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast (Post 3295565)
You bought the wrong car.

No but honestly, that power level is accessible with both supercharging or turbocharging. But first, do you need it to be reliable at the track? Because that single factor, will nearly double the price of any forced induction setup. If not, it's much easier since a street car see's almost none of the abuse a track car will.

Weekend fun with the boys. We got 370z, m3ís, audi s4ís so just enough to keep up. Not talkin about beating them at a race lol

YamahaR86 01-31-2020 12:49 PM

How much money ya got?

86click 01-31-2020 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamahaR86 (Post 3295571)
How much money ya got?

Willing to spend 15k on the car

Clutch Dog 01-31-2020 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86click (Post 3295561)
Hey y’all. I bought my car couple of months ago and I’m in love with it but also I don’t wanna be left behind when I’m with my friends going for cruises or what not. Yeah I got into this car knowing it’s gonna be slow but IK I can get it fast. Money is not the problem. I don’t daily it. I’m. A truck driver and 23 years old so it’s sitting at home. Only get it drive it on the weekends every couple weeks but I wanna have fun with it.

So I wanna build this car to be Fast. DONT SAY (you got the wrong car then) money isn’t a problem. I don’t really don’t wanna engine swap. Feel like it’s a huge headache but there is always a possibility.

So my question is.
•What can I do to the car to get 300-350whp?
•Turbo or Super charger with e85?
•Do I need rebuild the engine with internal upgrades before going FI?
•What parts I should get?
Fuel injectors, fuel pump, rebuilt transmission, Ect.

Thanks. Let me know what y’all got in mind.


the issue is the stock Bottom end of the car was never meant for boost, so they get really finicky real quick

if money truely isnt an issue id be looking at tearing out the engine, and upgrading the pistons with a lower compression piston ( something like (9:1) and then upgrading the rods to something thatll hold power

after you do that, throw a turbo on the car, and then the next weakest link will be oiling. There's talk about upgrading the oil pump to something with higher pressure, but really we need something to lower cavitation

a better pickup would help, and dont forget an oil cooler

after you get that sorted youd probably need to swap out the injectors and fuel pump for more power. and there are 8 injectors on this car remember.

then the next weakest link becomes the differential. its just a small subaru 7 inch unit. never meant to take a whole bunch of power. the best idea would be a mustang IRS rear end from the newer 2016+ as its an 8.8 ring gear and can take beef'

unless you can make a Nisan R200 or R230 diff fit, those are common, after you get that sorted the next weakest link would be the transmission
I personally like the CDoo9 nissan 6 speed, but you can make a bmw ZF work, or maybe a tko500 if money isnt a problem

now just about the only thing that isnt modified is the interior.

you have to love the car an aweful lot to invest that sort of time and money, but if its up your creek. that's where Id start


MA Performance engine

Killer B Fury Turbo Kit

I personally recommend running nothing bigger than garrett sized GT3071RS, youll need the airflow to spool anything bigger.

and
Stage 2 Built heads

thats not including an aftermarket ECU, personally I wouldnt run anything less than a Link harness, though Motec would be ideal if money isnt an issue

Motec plug and play BRZ

Throw in things like an upgraded drive shaft, clutch, brakes and wheels and tires, maybe suspension if you get too wallowy with the power on stock suspension. and lets not forget a bigger radiator and intercooler upgrades. Dyno time, custom tuner..
just doing rough math, youd be about 20k into this car to dyno 350 whp


like i said you have to love this car powerful hard to put in that much effort and money

jstn 01-31-2020 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86click (Post 3295561)
ēWhat can I do to the car to get 300-350whp?
ēTurbo or Super charger with e85?
ēDo I need rebuild the engine with internal upgrades before going FI?
ēWhat parts I should get?
Fuel injectors, fuel pump, rebuilt transmission, Ect.

Turbo or supercharger is mostly personal preference, either one is capable of getting you to that number. I think a turbo is going to be a lot easier to make big HP numbers with, but a supercharger will be simpler and cheaper (and personally I like the way they drive better than most turbo cars).

Stock internals are generally fine up to 300-350ish. If you want to go any further than that it's going to take some beefing up. Trans will be ok up to about 300ft lb of torque at which point you need to start worrying about grenading fourth gear.

Dual oil catch cans and upgraded radiator should be considered necessary. Stock fueling system will get you to around 300whp but I think beyond that you will need to worry about pump and injectors.

86click 01-31-2020 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Dog (Post 3295580)
the issue is the stock Bottom end of the car was never meant for boost, so they get really finicky real quick

if money truely isnt an issue id be looking at tearing out the engine, and upgrading the pistons with a lower compression piston ( something like (9:1) and then upgrading the rods to something thatll hold power

after you do that, throw a turbo on the car, and then the next weakest link will be oiling. There's talk about upgrading the oil pump to something with higher pressure, but really we need something to lower cavitation

a better pickup would help, and dont forget an oil cooler

after you get that sorted youd probably need to swap out the injectors and fuel pump for more power. and there are 8 injectors on this car remember.

then the next weakest link becomes the differential. its just a small subaru 7 inch unit. never meant to take a whole bunch of power. the best idea would be a mustang IRS rear end from the newer 2016+ as its an 8.8 ring gear and can take beef'

unless you can make a Nisan R200 or R230 diff fit, those are common, after you get that sorted the next weakest link would be the transmission
I personally like the CDoo9 nissan 6 speed, but you can make a bmw ZF work, or maybe a tko500 if money isnt a problem

now just about the only thing that isnt modified is the interior.

you have to love the car an aweful lot to invest that sort of time and money, but if its up your creek. that's where Id start


MA Performance engine

Killer B Fury Turbo Kit

I personally recommend running nothing bigger than garrett sized GT3071RS, youll need the airflow to spool anything bigger.

and
Stage 2 Built heads

thats not including an aftermarket ECU, personally I wouldnt run anything less than a Link harness, though Motec would be ideal if money isnt an issue

Motec plug and play BRZ

Throw in things like an upgraded drive shaft, clutch, brakes and wheels and tires, maybe suspension if you get too wallowy with the power on stock suspension. and lets not forget a bigger radiator and intercooler upgrades. Dyno time, custom tuner..
just doing rough math, youd be about 20k into this car to dyno 350 whp


like i said you have to love this car powerful hard to put in that much effort and money

I appreciate you took your time say all that. I love the way this car looks so Iím down to doing all that. But also Iím not gonna throw everything at it at the same time. Over time I wanna make this car fast and enjoyable. So thank you

YamahaR86 01-31-2020 01:11 PM

Few people I spoke to say the transmission will go (4th gear) before the rods will.


Are you automatic or manual?


I only have experience with turbo.

Need to upgrade clutch first thing, then other parts while you're in there. Forged Clutch Fork, Pivot, etc.

Catch cans, oil cooler, turbo kit, EcuTek or OFT, Dyno Time/Tuning. EBC or MBC.

Stock can handle 300-350 hp, but with the rest of the money I'd go with fuel pump, injectors, forged rods, pistons, springs. Then look into transmissions.

Clutch Dog 01-31-2020 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamahaR86 (Post 3295588)
Few people I spoke to say the transmission will go (4th gear) before the rods will.

its highly dependant on how the trans is used. its an Aisin Design and while 4th is the first thing for the trans to break, there are other things on the car that would break under normal conditions.

Hell when the trans is cold every gear shift feels like grinding gears. I havent had such a grindy gear since the rx8/s2000

also which use an aisin trans for a base.

Clutch Dog 01-31-2020 01:16 PM

personally I want to swap a renesis into the brz. id cheap out by getting a S2 Rx8 manual and swapping the transmission and engine together as a unit, then calculating BTU capacity and maybe upgrading the cooling system

then throwin on huge series oil coolers from the RX8 with new setrab coolers, and using the OE Rx8 wiring harness to run the engine. but its a lateral move for something that doesnt exactly dyno more hp ( it will be not alot) but for me it will change the driving characteristics of it


and in the ideal world with money not being an issue id make this

TRD Griffon

86TOYO2k17 01-31-2020 01:18 PM

If money isn't an option hit up pure automotive and send them your car for a turn key swap. Then you can reliably make all the power.

E85 if you have access to it is highly recommended regardless of other choices you decide. Just need a flex fuel kit and corresponding tune. and you can reliably make a lot more power and manage heat much better.

The stock 2017+ FA is still fairly reliable up to 225wtq/300whp. More can be done but reliability starts to decrease. I wouldn't go beyond 250wtq/335whp if you want it to last a reasonable amount of time to be able to even enjoy. Depending on how often you drive / how hard you drive having the engine last say 30k miles may be a lot to you or may not be a lot.

a stage 2 shortblock should be able to handle 350whp no problem (with as much reliability as a built engines can be)

people have had mixed experiences with stock MT how you drive is a huge factor especially on clutch and synchros. stock MT is rated at 184 ft lbs, but people report gears shearing around 240wtq, stock clutch around 200-220wtq. CD009 trans swap isn't too difficult to swap, but for your goals MT with a clutch may be fine.

as to how to make the power, and if money isn't an issue, a well setup turbo kit will be much better then a SC for many reasons, but a SC kit to hit up to about 320whp may be a little cheaper and simpler to setup especially if you plan on doing it yourself.

Also the cost and complexity dramatically increases between 300whp or 350whp. going to 350whp you may need trans, driveshaft, axles, shortblock, wheels/tires to put power down etc... whereas 300whp pretty much can slap on most FI kits and FF/E85 tune and good to go, maybe add an oil cooler for really spirited driving, more cooling will be needed if tracking though.

more specific use, budget, specific goals can narrow things down more.

Clutch Dog 01-31-2020 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 (Post 3295597)
If money isn't an option hit up pure automotive and send them your car for a turn key swap. Then you can reliably make all the power.

E85 if you have access to it is highly recommended regardless of other choices you decide. Just need a flex fuel kit and corresponding tune. and you can reliably make a lot more power and manage heat much better.

The stock 2017+ FA is still fairly reliable up to 225wtq/300whp. More can be done but reliability starts to decrease. I wouldn't go beyond 250wtq/335whp if you want it to last a reasonable amount of time to be able to even enjoy. Depending on how often you drive / how hard you drive having the engine last say 30k miles may be a lot to you or may not be a lot.

a stage 2 shortblock should be able to handle 350whp no problem (with as much reliability as a built engines can be)

people have had mixed experiences with stock MT how you drive is a huge factor especially on clutch and synchros. stock MT is rated at 184 ft lbs, but people report gears shearing around 240wtq, stock clutch around 200-220wtq. CD009 trans swap isn't too difficult to swap, but for your goals MT with a clutch may be fine.

as to how to make the power, and if money isn't an issue, a well setup turbo kit will be much better then a SC for many reasons, but a SC kit to hit up to about 320whp may be a little cheaper and simpler to setup especially if you plan on doing it yourself.

Also the cost and complexity dramatically increases between 300whp or 350whp. going to 350whp you may need trans, driveshaft, axles, shortblock, wheels/tires to put power down etc... whereas 300whp pretty much can slap on most FI kits and FF/E85 tune and good to go, maybe add an oil cooler for really spirited driving, more cooling will be needed if tracking though.

more specific use, budget, specific goals can narrow things down more.

BTW this is mostly correct


the parts list i threw together is a completely reliable. clutch drop and rip everyday all day 1 hour lap sessions, no worries over built project

ive seen supercharged bolt on E85 86's dyno 300 whp and with 4.3 gears makes for a really fun time. but admittedly its just a matter of what breaks at that power level.

the real sweet spot as mentioned is about 240-260 whp. the car would do that nearly all day.

DandoX 01-31-2020 01:26 PM

@Payload mentioned you could totally get 300hp with just a tune


https://media0.giphy.com/media/rIEsI...&rid=giphy.gif

86TOYO2k17 01-31-2020 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Dog (Post 3295599)
BTW this is mostly correct


the parts list i threw together is a completely reliable. clutch drop and rip everyday all day 1 hour lap sessions, no worries over built project

ive seen supercharged bolt on E85 86's dyno 300 whp and with 4.3 gears makes for a really fun time. but admittedly its just a matter of what breaks at that power level.

the real sweet spot as mentioned is about 240-260 whp. the car would do that nearly all day.

yeah, 300whp sc 4.3gear would be a blast and enough for most,

Another thing people forget when mentioning power goals, is power to weight, 200lbs weight reduction can go a long way, and also have benefits in other areas like braking and handling. As well as helping get to a level of acceleration performance that an unreliable amount of whp would need.

Cost sky rockets for same WHP if its for spirited driving, vs tracking.
and cost sky rockets from 300whp or below vs 350whp and up.

So many factors and variables to make generalized statements unless we know his specific intentions and specific budget.

Clutch Dog 01-31-2020 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 (Post 3295610)
yeah, 300whp sc 4.3gear would be a blast and enough for most,

Another thing people forget when mentioning power goals, is power to weight, 200lbs weight reduction can go a long way, and also have benefits in other areas like braking and handling. As well as helping get to a level of acceleration performance that an unreliable amount of whp would need.

Cost sky rockets for same WHP if its for spirited driving, vs tracking.
and cost sky rockets from 300whp or below vs 350whp and up.

So many factors and variables to make generalized statements unless we know his specific intentions and specific budget.

didja check the TRD Giffon? ;)

stock 200 hp engine, but it laps tsukuba under a minute. that cf roof...

86TOYO2k17 01-31-2020 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Dog (Post 3295624)
didja check the TRD Giffon? ;)

stock 200 hp engine, but it laps tsukuba under a minute. that cf roof...

Yeah thatís crazy. I want to know how they got that weight down so much. Probably cost a lot, but still good illustration on what weight reduction can do for overall performance.

NoHaveMSG 01-31-2020 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Dog (Post 3295580)

then the next weakest link becomes the differential. its just a small subaru 7 inch unit. never meant to take a whole bunch of power. the best idea would be a mustang IRS rear end from the newer 2016+ as its an 8.8 ring gear and can take beef'

Our diff is Toyota/Lexus based, not Subaru. The IS250 is the exact same housing, I believe Y31, I can't recall exactly. Built FI cars are abusing them without issue.

Clutch Dog 01-31-2020 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3295633)
Our diff is Toyota/Lexus based, not Subaru. The IS250 is the exact same housing, I believe Y31, I can't recall exactly. Built FI cars are abusing them without issue.

thanks for clarifying. I had to double take. I was for sure it was a 7.5 diff simialr to the sti, s2000 and rx8

NoHaveMSG 01-31-2020 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Dog (Post 3295641)
thanks for clarifying. I had to double take. I was for sure it was a 7.5 diff simialr to the sti, s2000 and rx8

Yeah no prob. I have a spare if anyone needs one :D

86TOYO2k17 01-31-2020 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG (Post 3295633)
Our diff is Toyota/Lexus based, not Subaru. The IS250 is the exact same housing, I believe Y31, I can't recall exactly. Built FI cars are abusing them without issue.

not sure the difference of Y31 vs Y38. but IS250 has Y31 4.1FD, Y50 is 3.909FD. brz/86 13-16 MT / 13+ AT have Y38 4.1FD , 17+ MT has Y58 4.3 FD,
IS300 has M85 3.73FD M98 3.91FD.

All share the same carrier/pumpkin and are interchangeable. no idea if any have different torque ratings or all are the same. but i dont think people have much issues with those unless your making like 300ft lbs with a slick and launching hard.

tom@ptuning 01-31-2020 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86click (Post 3295574)
Willing to spend 15k on the car

That much gets you into a nice PTUNING turbo kit with flex fuel.

Shoot me a PM

Clutch Dog 01-31-2020 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 (Post 3295644)
not sure the difference of Y31 vs Y38. but IS250 has Y31 4.1FD, Y50 is 3.909FD. brz/86 13-16 MT / 13+ AT have Y38 4.1FD , 17+ MT has Y58 4.3 FD,
IS300 has M85 3.73FD M98 3.91FD.

All share the same carrier/pumpkin and are interchangeable. no idea if any have different torque ratings or all are the same. but i dont think people have much issues with those unless your making like 300ft lbs with a slick and launching hard.

this would also be the small supra diff? mk3 gen not the mk4

I betcha its all the same.

NoHaveMSG 01-31-2020 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Dog (Post 3295661)
this would also be the small supra diff? mk3 gen not the mk4

I betcha its all the same.

Yep, the R&P's that Weir Performance was making was because he also made them for the Supra.

mrg666 02-01-2020 07:57 AM

I would start with a built short block with 10:1 (for 300whp, 12:1 is okay) compression. And, upgrade valve springs, plus an oil cooler.

Supercharger kit, high-boost pulley, port injectors, fuel pump, MAP sensor, and an E85 kit will be more than enough for 300whp.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.


Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.