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-   -   Valve Spring Recall > Spun Bearing (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132928)

Natedawg 02-12-2019 12:20 PM

Valve Spring Recall > Spun Bearing
 
Just thought I would add my experience so far with this valve spring recall, as I'm starting to see a couple other people here with similar experiences. I brought my car into my local Toyota dealership, they completed the recall in about 3 days. Then ~300 miles later I hear a hear a rattling noise while driving on the highway. Car proceeds to completely die and leave me stranded.

Luckily the dealership has had really good customer service and sent a truck to pick up my car. Turns out that I have a spun bearing and Toyota is going to cover the repair which requires a new short block.

I don't blame Toyota or the dealership here, as they both are doing everything they can to fix the issues, including providing a loaner car ect. It just sucks that Subaru screwed us over with these valve springs which require a engine teardown to fix (honestly how do you even manufacture bad valve springs? its a freaking spring..)

Right now I wish I could opt to put a real toyota engine in my car and not another FA20, can't say I'd buy another Subaru built car after all of this.

Stang70Fastback 02-12-2019 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natedawg (Post 3185097)
It just sucks that Subaru screwed us over with these valve springs which require a engine teardown to fix (honestly how do you even manufacture bad valve springs? its a freaking spring..)

Right now I wish I could opt to put a real toyota engine in my car and not another FA20, can't say I'd buy another Subaru built car after all of this.

Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen. Likewise, I don't blame Subaru for the Takata recall. I mean, airbags have existed for decades, right? Should be simple enough to make one that doesn't murder people!

Doesn't matter how good you are at making something as simple as a spring, if the metal you use to make them is defective to begin with. If it was a manufacturing defect, these things happen too. It sucks that this happened to be a part buried in the engine, and not, say, a lower control arm or some-such, but that's the luck of the draw. The design wasn't faulty.

Tcoat 02-12-2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 3185100)
Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen. Likewise, I don't blame Subaru for the Takata recall. I mean, airbags have existed for decades, right? Should be simple enough to make one that doesn't murder people!

Doesn't matter how good you are at making something as simple as a spring, if the metal you use to make them is defective to begin with. If it was a manufacturing defect, these things happen too. It sucks that this happened to be a part buried in the engine, and not, say, a lower control arm or some-such, but that's the luck of the draw. The design wasn't faulty.


This ^

Not to mention that this was a voluntary recall on Subarus part. They were not forced to do it they just did. They could just as easily just said screw you to everybody that had the potential issue and made them pay for a new engine when it went. There are millions and millions of Subarus driving around out there that are problem free so this is not an indication of their whole production or quality.


I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work? Was it just coincidence that the infamous 2013 spun bearing issue happened after the work? On the bright side it means the engine get's replaced for free instead of out of pocket which is what would have happened if the bearing spun before the work was done.


We will hear a few horror stories from the repairs while the vast majority that have the work done with no issues will remain silent. This will make everybody run around screaming that the sky is falling. This is the way of the internet. Yes, it would totally suck to be one of the horror story guys but their experiences should not be considered the norm.

ermax 02-12-2019 01:23 PM

Aside from no oil I can only think of one thing, excessive packing. Similar to other reports of spun rod bearings after a timing cover repack.

At least they are covering it. On the bright side you have a fresh shortblock for free. Hopefully they will not botch the packing on the second attempt.

yelsew 02-12-2019 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3185121)

I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work?

In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

Tcoat 02-12-2019 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelsew (Post 3185172)
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

Which is exactly my theory as to why some of the early ones spun the bearings without any work on them.

Natedawg 02-12-2019 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelsew (Post 3185172)
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

This is my guess as to what happened. The only thing I did check after the initial work was the oil level, and it definitely had oil. I was told it lost oil pressure which is what caused the bearing to fail, i'll see if I can find out if the know what caused that.

I am glad they are taking care of it too, can't complain there. I guess it will be nice to have a newly rebuilt engine when its all said and done, although it will take a few thousand miles before I will be able to fully trust the car again.

ermax 02-12-2019 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natedawg (Post 3185189)
This is my guess as to what happened. The only thing I did check after the initial work was the oil level, and it definitely had oil. I was told it lost oil pressure which is what caused the bearing to fail, i'll see if I can find out if the know what caused that.

I am glad they are taking care of it too, can't complain there. I guess it will be nice to have a newly rebuilt engine when its all said and done, although it will take a few thousand miles before I will be able to fully trust the car again.

While you are at it, ask if it was the #2 or #3. #2 and 3 share a main feed. It would also be interesting to know if the pickup screen was clogged with old scrapped off packing.

ermax 02-12-2019 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelsew (Post 3185172)
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

They leave the heads on so I can only imagine were all the old packing goes as they scrape it off.

Pinoy_FRS 02-12-2019 03:38 PM

Same thing happened to me last night. Not entrirely positive it’s a spun bearing but from my research and your post it’s looking like it. I’ll hear from Toyota tomorrow

Stang70Fastback 02-12-2019 03:58 PM

I've also heard rumors that there are a not insignificant percentage of vehicles returning with issues after the valve spring repair. So it's possible that the techs are doing something wrong, or weren't trained on an extra step, or just that something is going wrong during the repair in general that nobody foresaw. Maybe they didn't explicitly spell out "DON'T LET OLD GOOP FALL INTO ENGINE," in the instructions. Who knows, but someone at one dealership in one of our FB groups said they were actually completely stopping doing the repairs until they got more guidance from Subaru/Toyota due to 10% of the repaired vehicles being brought back with further issues.

ermax 02-12-2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 3185239)
I've also heard rumors that there are a not insignificant percentage of vehicles returning with issues after the valve spring repair. So it's possible that the techs are doing something wrong, or weren't trained on an extra step, or just that something is going wrong during the repair in general that nobody foresaw. Maybe they didn't explicitly spell out "DON'T LET OLD GOOP FALL INTO ENGINE," in the instructions. Who knows, but someone at one dealership in one of our FB groups said they were actually completely stopping doing the repairs until they got more guidance from Subaru/Toyota due to 10% of the repaired vehicles being brought back with further issues.



There are lots of things not explicitly spelled out but a mechanic should know not to let shit fall in an engine without being told. It’s just easy to have crap fall in anyways. Unrelated but I’ve seen a few reports of damaged OCVs. This is something that probably should be added to the instructions. The connectors are in such vulnerable positions.

Rereading the instructions they actually do explicitly tell you not to let packing fall in:
https://i.imgur.com/NUGqx0v.png

The recall instructions are damn explicit about just about everything. It's way more detailed than the original manual. Maybe dealers aren't using the recall instructions and are instead using the manual.

BRZnut 02-12-2019 08:29 PM

And this is why I'm sticking with my opinion that tearing apart good working engines for something that will likely never happen is a dumb way to attack this problem. They should have just planned to fix the issue for free when the unlikely event of a broken spring happens.

NoHaveMSG 02-12-2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3185121)
This ^

I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work? Was it just coincidence that the infamous 2013 spun bearing issue happened after the work? On the bright side it means the engine get's replaced for free instead of out of pocket which is what would have happened if the bearing spun before the work was done.

I was wondering the same thing. They don't even pull the heads for this. Are they pulling the timing cover? Maybe too much sealant there ending up in the pickup :iono:

Quote:

Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen.
I remember when I was wrenching on bikes this happened to Yamaha around 06'. I believe their titanium valves were made by Toyota and the heads were snapping off(believe it or not the valves where manufactured as two pieces and then fused). They got a bad rep about Ti valves for years after that even though it was a supplier issue that affected a limited number of bikes.

ermax 02-12-2019 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZnut (Post 3185342)
And this is why I'm sticking with my opinion that tearing apart good working engines for something that will likely never happen is a dumb way to attack this problem. They should have just planned to fix the issue for free when the unlikely event of a broken spring happens.



But that would risk a lawsuit if someone got hurt. Seems they have added more risk then they had just leaving it alone though. There are more reports of dead engines from the recall than there have been of actual spring failures. Although the liability may be offloaded from Subaru to the dealer if the dealer does the recall, the engine dies and they get in a wreck. We all know a bearing doesn’t fail because you replaced the valve springs unless the dealer makes a mistake.

I plan to do mine eventually. I talked to a neighbor that had his done and it took them a week. They said it was the first one they have done. So I think I will hold of a few months.

BRZnut 02-12-2019 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ermax (Post 3185359)
But that would risk a lawsuit if someone got hurt. Seems they have added more risk then they had just leaving it alone though. There are more reports of dead engines from the recall than there have been of actual spring failures. Although the liability may be offloaded from Subaru to the dealer if the dealer does the recall, the engine dies and they get in a wreck. We all know a bearing doesn’t fail because you replaced the valve springs unless the dealer makes a mistake.

I plan to do mine eventually. I talked to a neighbor that had his done and it took them a week. They said it was the first one they have done. So I think I will hold of a few months.

True but I think we all agree the chance of a broken spring is small. The chance that a broken spring will happen at the exact time to put you in an accident is even smaller.

I am with you and going to wait a bit to see how this all plays out!

PWBRZ 02-12-2019 10:28 PM

I’m going to wait as long as possible. Really wish I didn’t have to do it but here in CA it’s mandatory. [emoji53]



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kopecma 02-13-2019 02:16 AM

I have experience with this situation.

I brought my car in for the valve spring recall about a month ago. After the recall work was performed, the #3 rod bearing failed while the service department was doing their test drive. The dealer claims everything went fine with the recall work and that it must have been a random rod bearing failure. They ask Toyota for a replacement short block, which was eventually approved despite the car being 5 months out of the powertrain warranty window. Fast-forward 25 days and the car is ready. The dealer claims Toyota won’t cover the labor for the replacement of the short block. Angry, I call Toyota customer service who promptly refers me back to the dealer. The dealer offers to discount their labor rate slightly but I’m still stuck with a bill for nearly 20% of the value of the car (spark plugs, tob and pressure plate were replaced as well). Granted, it’s a cheap price to pay for a new short block, but sticking the customer with the bill when the failure was almost certainly related to the recall work and the car was still in the dealerships possession is a great way to ensure I don’t shop there in the future.

If people are considering have the valve spring recall performed I would strongly recommend discussing with your service advisor which party is financially responsible if another failure occurs as a result the recall work before handing over your keys.


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ermax 02-13-2019 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZnut (Post 3185365)
True but I think we all agree the chance of a broken spring is small. The chance that a broken spring will happen at the exact time to put you in an accident is even smaller.

I am with you and going to wait a bit to see how this all plays out!



The accident would come as a result of the failed engine. Pull the EPS fuse and go for a drive if you want to simulate the experience of not having power steering. I just did this last week and was shocked at how difficult it is. People think of PS as a luxury when it’s nearly mandatory on our car due to the 13:1 ratio. Old cars without PS had ratios to accommodate. Even at a roll this car is super hard to steer. A quick reaction to avoid an accident would be hard especially if you unexpectedly lost it. I agree the chance of failure is low but the chance of an accident if it failed is higher than you would think.

ermax 02-13-2019 06:10 AM

Valve Spring Recall > Spun Bearing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kopecma (Post 3185412)
I have experience with this situation.

I brought my car in for the valve spring recall about a month ago. After the recall work was performed, the #3 rod bearing failed while the service department was doing their test drive. The dealer claims everything went fine with the recall work and that it must have been a random rod bearing failure. They ask Toyota for a replacement short block, which was eventually approved despite the car being 5 months out of the powertrain warranty window. Fast-forward 25 days and the car is ready. The dealer claims Toyota won’t cover the labor for the replacement of the short block. Angry, I call Toyota customer service who promptly refers me back to the dealer. The dealer offers to discount their labor rate slightly but I’m still stuck with a bill for nearly 20% of the value of the car (spark plugs, tob and pressure plate were replaced as well). Granted, it’s a cheap price to pay for a new short block, but sticking the customer with the bill when the failure was almost certainly related to the recall work and the car was still in the dealerships possession is a great way to ensure I don’t shop there in the future.

If people are considering have the valve spring recall performed I would strongly recommend discussing with your service advisor which party is financially responsible if another failure occurs as a result the recall work before handing over your keys.


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Man that sucks. I’d collect all the occurrences of bearing failure from this forum and show them you aren’t the only one. Just curious, how many miles are on your car?

It’s also interesting to see people register just to report these recall failures. Just think of how many people could be going through this that we don’t know about. I know Tcoat is going to slap my hand for this comment but it’s true.

BRZnut 02-13-2019 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopecma (Post 3185412)
I have experience with this situation.

I brought my car in for the valve spring recall about a month ago. After the recall work was performed, the #3 rod bearing failed while the service department was doing their test drive. The dealer claims everything went fine with the recall work and that it must have been a random rod bearing failure. They ask Toyota for a replacement short block, which was eventually approved despite the car being 5 months out of the powertrain warranty window. Fast-forward 25 days and the car is ready. The dealer claims Toyota won’t cover the labor for the replacement of the short block. Angry, I call Toyota customer service who promptly refers me back to the dealer. The dealer offers to discount their labor rate slightly but I’m still stuck with a bill for nearly 20% of the value of the car (spark plugs, tob and pressure plate were replaced as well). Granted, it’s a cheap price to pay for a new short block, but sticking the customer with the bill when the failure was almost certainly related to the recall work and the car was still in the dealerships possession is a great way to ensure I don’t shop there in the future.

If people are considering have the valve spring recall performed I would strongly recommend discussing with your service advisor which party is financially responsible if another failure occurs as a result the recall work before handing over your keys.


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That sucks and is why I am concerned. Did they give a reason why #3 rod failed????

ka-t_240 02-13-2019 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopecma (Post 3185412)
I have experience with this situation.

I brought my car in for the valve spring recall about a month ago. After the recall work was performed, the #3 rod bearing failed while the service department was doing their test drive. The dealer claims everything went fine with the recall work and that it must have been a random rod bearing failure. They ask Toyota for a replacement short block, which was eventually approved despite the car being 5 months out of the powertrain warranty window. Fast-forward 25 days and the car is ready. The dealer claims Toyota won’t cover the labor for the replacement of the short block. Angry, I call Toyota customer service who promptly refers me back to the dealer. The dealer offers to discount their labor rate slightly but I’m still stuck with a bill for nearly 20% of the value of the car (spark plugs, tob and pressure plate were replaced as well). Granted, it’s a cheap price to pay for a new short block, but sticking the customer with the bill when the failure was almost certainly related to the recall work and the car was still in the dealerships possession is a great way to ensure I don’t shop there in the future.

If people are considering have the valve spring recall performed I would strongly recommend discussing with your service advisor which party is financially responsible if another failure occurs as a result the recall work before handing over your keys.


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If they did not tell you that you would be responsible for the labor prior to replacing, they should be eating their labor.

srt4evah 02-13-2019 10:09 AM

Man this really sucks, Toyota doesn't have techs with experience rebuilding boxer engines. I bet few if any BRZ owners will have their engine fail after this recall, but now we have 3 in one thread.

There was a local in Austin here that had his engine oil overfilled and his crankshaft seal was done improperly, and had to be redone. Hope his engine lasts... I give up on this recall, for now at least, not letting them near my car.

kopecma 02-13-2019 10:37 AM

45k miles on the car.

They were non-committal on the mechanism of the rod bearing failure “it’s a known issue with this engine”. Stated that they didn’t believe it could directly attributed to the recall work.

I was told multiple times that “Toyota will contact you” so I thought I would have a chance to plead my case with them. When I attempted to contact them I was referred to the PR person at the dealer who gave me back to the service manager.

I was hopeful that the labor would be included since the short block was deemed to be covered under the powertrain warranty. At that point though, I just wanted my car back and understood that I was going to be stuck writing a check no matter whether or not Toyota covered the labor.

The whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth, but I get that all parties probably share some responsibility in paying for the failure. I drove the car for several years putting some wear on the bearing. Toyota donated a $6800 short block with a one year warranty. The dealership discounted their labor and gave me a rental for a month (but also probably compromised oil flow to the rod bearing in the first place).




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NoHaveMSG 02-13-2019 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ermax (Post 3185439)
The accident would come as a result of the failed engine. Pull the EPS fuse and go for a drive if you want to simulate the experience of not having power steering. I just did this last week and was shocked at how difficult it is. People think of PS as a luxury when it’s nearly mandatory on our car due to the 13:1 ratio. Old cars without PS had ratios to accommodate. Even at a roll this car is super hard to steer. A quick reaction to avoid an accident would be hard especially if you unexpectedly lost it. I agree the chance of failure is low but the chance of an accident if it failed is higher than you would think.

Talk to all the track guys who have overheated and had the PS cut mid corner.

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ermax 02-13-2019 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopecma (Post 3185498)
45k miles on the car.

They were non-committal on the mechanism of the rod bearing failure “it’s a known issue with this engine”. Stated that they didn’t believe it could directly attributed to the recall work.

I was told multiple times that “Toyota will contact you” so I thought I would have a chance to plead my case with them. When I attempted to contact them I was referred to the PR person at the dealer who gave me back to the service manager.

I was hopeful that the labor would be included since the short block was deemed to be covered under the powertrain warranty. At that point though, I just wanted my car back and understood that I was going to be stuck writing a check no matter whether or not Toyota covered the labor.

The whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth, but I get that all parties probably share some responsibility in paying for the failure. I drove the car for several years putting some wear on the bearing. Toyota donated a $6800 short block with a one year warranty. The dealership discounted their labor and gave me a rental for a month (but also probably compromised oil flow to the rod bearing in the first place).

First of all a rod bearing isn't actually a bearing. Oil is what forms the bearing. What is referred to as the bearing is actually just a shim that is used to create the perfect oil clearance to form a bearing. In a perfect world the bearing never makes contact with the rod or crank. You can pull bearings on a car with 100k miles and they will still look brand new assuming the car had proper oiling its whole life. If there is oil starvation they basically go from mint condition to completely destroyed in seconds. They don't really wear with time as they seem to be making you think. What I think is going on with these recall jobs is they are either using too much packing seal on the timing cover, cam caps or valve cover and then it is breaking loose, making its way down to the pan and then clogging the oil pickup or when they scrape off the old packing seal on the cam caps and valve cover the old packing is falling into the engine which makes its way to the pan and then into the oil pickup. No way in hell have there been 3 people all with the same bad luck that they just happened to have a bearing spin right after this job.

Also, a short block isn't $6800. Hell even if you paid MSRP it isn't 6800. If I recall MSRP is 2050, I paid $1860 for mine.

I would put up a fight on this one.

Pinoy_FRS 02-13-2019 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kopecma (Post 3185498)
45k miles on the car.

They were non-committal on the mechanism of the rod bearing failure “it’s a known issue with this engine”. Stated that they didn’t believe it could directly attributed to the recall work.

I was told multiple times that “Toyota will contact you” so I thought I would have a chance to plead my case with them. When I attempted to contact them I was referred to the PR person at the dealer who gave me back to the service manager.

I was hopeful that the labor would be included since the short block was deemed to be covered under the powertrain warranty. At that point though, I just wanted my car back and understood that I was going to be stuck writing a check no matter whether or not Toyota covered the labor.

The whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth, but I get that all parties probably share some responsibility in paying for the failure. I drove the car for several years putting some wear on the bearing. Toyota donated a $6800 short block with a one year warranty. The dealership discounted their labor and gave me a rental for a month (but also probably compromised oil flow to the rod bearing in the first place).




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I really hope that isn’t the case with my car. I had the recall service done about a month ago. I picked it up one and a half weeks later only only for my check engine light and slip light to come on. I brought it back and it turned out to be a bad ocv. Got it fixed and picked it up another week later. Two weeks of getting the car back and my engine completely fails on me driving on the highway. I turned it on and heard this loud knock on the motor so I got it towed to the same dealership. My car was running fine before I brought it in for the recall. I did it for peace of mind but ever since after I’ve been getting nothing but problems with my car. Do you think Toyota will blame me for the engine failing because of normal wear and tear?

HaXx 02-13-2019 02:13 PM

I guess this is all a good reason to have as much work done as possible at a reputable tune shop instead of a dealer. I'm not knocking all dealer techs, but I have more confidence tossing my keys to a subie tune shop.

BRZnut 02-13-2019 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinoy_FRS (Post 3185545)
I really hope that isn’t the case with my car. I had the recall service done about a month ago. I picked it up one and a half weeks later only only for my check engine light and slip light to come on. I brought it back and it turned out to be a bad ocv. Got it fixed and picked it up another week later. Two weeks of getting the car back and my engine completely fails on me driving on the highway. I turned it on and heard this loud knock on the motor so I got it towed to the same dealership. My car was running fine before I brought it in for the recall. I did it for peace of mind but ever since after I’ve been getting nothing but problems with my car. Do you think Toyota will blame me for the engine failing because of normal wear and tear?

Engines should not fail because of "normal wear and tear" so don't accept that as a reason! So you had the recall done to prevent the car from dying on the highway risking an accident, and the recall repair caused just that! Sorry to hear. Let us know what the dealer says.

CT86 02-21-2019 04:04 PM

Ok so this same thing just happened with my car. Did the recall a couple weeks ago. Engine started rattling and losing power before shutting off completely in the middle of the road. Had it towed to the same dealer that did the recall.

They apparently spent the morning taking apart the "top" part of the engine which they say is where the recall work took place. They are now asking for my permission to take apart the bottom part. Here's the kicker: if they do this and it turns out the fault wasn't recall related, I will be on the hook for 8h of labor ($1072) CAD.

Thoughts on next steps?

Dadhawk 02-21-2019 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT86 (Post 3188292)
Thoughts on next steps?

See if they can get a factory rep to authorize the additional work?

ka-t_240 02-21-2019 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT86 (Post 3188292)
Ok so this same thing just happened with my car. Did the recall a couple weeks ago. Engine started rattling and losing power before shutting off completely in the middle of the road. Had it towed to the same dealer that did the recall.

They apparently spent the morning taking apart the "top" part of the engine which they say is where the recall work took place. They are now asking for my permission to take apart the bottom part. Here's the kicker: if they do this and it turns out the fault wasn't recall related, I will be on the hook for 8h of labor ($1072) CAD.

Thoughts on next steps?

Do they have the engine out? What did the find on the top half? Have they pulled an oil pan yet?

BRZnut 02-21-2019 06:17 PM

The timing of the event clearly suggests it is from the recall work. I hope they do not pin it on you.

I would call the Corp Office and tell them that just the suggestion by the dealer that this is not from the recall work is an insult to you. (Maybe if Corp knows you are not going to take this lying down the Corp Office will work things out with the dealer in your favor)

DarkPira7e 02-22-2019 10:34 AM

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...30#post3188530 please leave an entry here if you have time and had engine failure shortly after the recall work was performed.

hmong337 03-21-2019 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natedawg (Post 3185097)
Just thought I would add my experience so far with this valve spring recall, as I'm starting to see a couple other people here with similar experiences. I brought my car into my local Toyota dealership, they completed the recall in about 3 days. Then ~300 miles later I hear a hear a rattling noise while driving on the highway. Car proceeds to completely die and leave me stranded.

Luckily the dealership has had really good customer service and sent a truck to pick up my car. Turns out that I have a spun bearing and Toyota is going to cover the repair which requires a new short block.

I don't blame Toyota or the dealership here, as they both are doing everything they can to fix the issues, including providing a loaner car ect. It just sucks that Subaru screwed us over with these valve springs which require a engine teardown to fix (honestly how do you even manufacture bad valve springs? its a freaking spring..)

Right now I wish I could opt to put a real toyota engine in my car and not another FA20, can't say I'd buy another Subaru built car after all of this.

Ooooo man I am so glad I got rid of this car back in 2017. Bought it new in 2013. Mine was a 05/13 so falls right within this recall. The engine always made some funny clanking sounds during my ownership. I mean, it never left me stranded and I used it as a daily for 129,000kms but there was always something about the FA20 that didn't have my full confidence. First of all, it truly is a Subaru and I've always hated Subarus. I guess I just went along with- if Toyota were to invest in this product, it should be decent. I'm really a Toyota guy but man did Toyota ever screw up. Truth be told, this car is a Subaru product. Toyota has really kicked the bucket and now the Supra is a BMW. Anyways...

I've always hated boxer 4 cylinders. Overly complex for what they are. It just didn't make sense to me the design. Like the FA20: Two heads, the block is two pieces, 8 injectors, 4 camshafts. All those mechanical parts for a measly 200fwhp that a k20 did 10+ years earlier. The longer I owned the car and finding about all the short comings of the FA20, the more I hated the engine.

I love EVERYTHING about the car except the engine. If I were to buy another frs, I only want the shell. The FA20 just isn't great. So glad I got rid of my frs now knowing out this recall.

Natedawg 03-21-2019 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT86 (Post 3188292)
Ok so this same thing just happened with my car. Did the recall a couple weeks ago. Engine started rattling and losing power before shutting off completely in the middle of the road. Had it towed to the same dealer that did the recall.

They apparently spent the morning taking apart the "top" part of the engine which they say is where the recall work took place. They are now asking for my permission to take apart the bottom part. Here's the kicker: if they do this and it turns out the fault wasn't recall related, I will be on the hook for 8h of labor ($1072) CAD.

Thoughts on next steps?

That doesn’t seem right. When I got my car back to the original dealership they never told me I would be in the hook for anything. Toyota sent out a rep to look at the engine and determine if it would be covered.

msaikhan 03-22-2019 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT86 (Post 3188292)
Ok so this same thing just happened with my car. Did the recall a couple weeks ago. Engine started rattling and losing power before shutting off completely in the middle of the road. Had it towed to the same dealer that did the recall.

They apparently spent the morning taking apart the "top" part of the engine which they say is where the recall work took place. They are now asking for my permission to take apart the bottom part. Here's the kicker: if they do this and it turns out the fault wasn't recall related, I will be on the hook for 8h of labor ($1072) CAD.

Thoughts on next steps?

Ask them to drop the oil pan and oil pick up screen ONLY so you pay maybe 1 hr labor if the pick up screen is clean. But if the screen is plugged with sealant you know its dealer's fault. AND GO SEE IT YOURSELF, take pictures of the oil pickup screen and whatever else they did on top of the engine.

subaru 03-22-2019 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3185121)
This ^

Not to mention that this was a voluntary recall on Subarus part. They were not forced to do it they just did. They could just as easily just said screw you to everybody that had the potential issue and made them pay for a new engine when it went. There are millions and millions of Subarus driving around out there that are problem free so this is not an indication of their whole production or quality.


I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work? Was it just coincidence that the infamous 2013 spun bearing issue happened after the work? On the bright side it means the engine get's replaced for free instead of out of pocket which is what would have happened if the bearing spun before the work was done.


We will hear a few horror stories from the repairs while the vast majority that have the work done with no issues will remain silent. This will make everybody run around screaming that the sky is falling. This is the way of the internet. Yes, it would totally suck to be one of the horror story guys but their experiences should not be considered the norm.


To be fair subaru is already in the midst of loosing 2 class action law suits for motor related problems right now. Nearly every single car they have made for the last 7-8 years has recalls out on it.

Saying it's voluntary is a little misleading, especially since they knew about the problem 6 years ago. My resale value now alone and the 3500 bucks that it will probably take off the car in the end shows subaru is doing us no favors. In my opinion It was a very low move how this recall was done and if you think subaru is just an unfortunate bystander I have to chuckle.

In terms of people blowing the issue out of proportion, there is a reason subaru is spending literally 500 million dollars to do this. They have no other choice. This failed recall issue is completely legit. In the past the forum has been oh 5 guys engines for a range of years fail, and issues get blown out whack, and everybody knows about it. This is 100% not the same situation as when there are 40 people with failures right away all coming to the forum and posting. You have to think how many people aren't on the forums and who have no idea about it. Especially if you expand that issue to all subarus. How many other model valve recall motors have failed? I think the reality is subaru figured out by the time you hit 6 digits of mileage and a few more years the failure rate was going to be extreme. Otherwise they would have handled it case by case you'd think.

Anyways when you have 4 years worth of posts and a handful of failures over that time, thats how things get skewed and issues seem bigger. When you have a crapload of people posting in a very short amount of time and you have new ones each day that says A LOT.

Tcoat 03-22-2019 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subaru (Post 3199188)
To be fair subaru is already in the midst of loosing 2 class action law suits for motor related problems right now. Nearly every single car they have made for the last 7-8 years has recalls out on it.

Saying it's voluntary is a little misleading, especially since they knew about the problem 6 years ago. My resale value now alone and the 3500 bucks that it will probably take off the car in the end shows subaru is doing us no favors. In my opinion It was a very low move how this recall was done and if you think subaru is just an unfortunate bystander I have to chuckle.

In terms of people blowing the issue out of proportion, there is a reason subaru is spending literally 500 million dollars to do this. They have no other choice. This failed recall issue is completely legit. In the past the forum has been oh 5 guys engines for a range of years fail, and issues get blown out whack, and everybody knows about it. This is 100% not the same situation as when there are 40 people with failures right away all coming to the forum and posting. You have to think how many people aren't on the forums and who have no idea about it. Especially if you expand that issue to all subarus. How many other model valve recall motors have failed? I think the reality is subaru figured out by the time you hit 6 digits of mileage and a few more years the failure rate was going to be extreme. Otherwise they would have handled it case by case you'd think.

Anyways when you have 4 years worth of posts and a handful of failures over that time, thats how things get skewed and issues seem bigger. When you have a crapload of people posting in a very short amount of time and you have new ones each day that says A LOT.

Would like to see something that says they have know about this for 6 years.
The 4 years worth of posts have nothing to do with the spring recall. They were for oil starvation and if you read more of what I have said you would see I have called that issue for 3 years.
At no point did I say the issue with the recall failures was not legit.
You have jumped on a post with both feet before reading on for the updates and other posts. Don't take one post out of context.

HlfpriceWngs 03-22-2019 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msaikhan (Post 3198956)
Ask them to drop the oil pan and oil pick up screen ONLY so you pay maybe 1 hr labor if the pick up screen is clean. But if the screen is plugged with sealant you know its dealer's fault. AND GO SEE IT YOURSELF, take pictures of the oil pickup screen and whatever else they did on top of the engine.

DO THIS ASAP! It's what saved me for being on the hook for my motor. The dealership avoided taking pictures of the oil pickup screen.


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